Honestly most pub food here is pretty good. Wetherspoons is one of the cheapest options, so that always raises the risk that you're going to get a below par meal. If you're paying a decent price then you almost always get good food - in pubs around here, anyway.
Let's talk wrasslin'
- Thread starter The Grayfox
- Start date
A close friend of mine was in the UK last year and he sent me a lot of pictures of food because it's something we both love and have been discussing since we were kids. Anyway, everything he sent looked incredibly good. A lot of bridies, bangers and mash, pies, puddings. Dude had a full English almost every day he was there.
Yeah, I was watching live and we went from Cody telling the Rock to go fuck himself, uncensored, to Cena turning heel to Michael Cole asking why Cena would "stoop to this shit?!" Things have definitely changed a bit. My initial thought was "ok, now I can get behind this match" because initially the thought of a babyface vs. babyface match and it's build leading to Mania sounded like an absolute snoozefest. At least with this we get to (hopefully) see corporate sellout Cena for a while, which is a nice change of pace.
I imagine he will revert back to a babyface before the year is up to go out that way. But then again, maybe not? I wouldn't have thought they'd turn him heel at this point so who the hell knows where this is going. I read earlier that he flew out to Africa to resume filming his new movie immediately after the event, which isn't a great start. I hope he's part of the build, otherwise this will fall a bit flat. I think most people had hoped he was going to devote more time to WWE for his last year and sort of take a break from Hollywood.
I imagine he will revert back to a babyface before the year is up to go out that way. But then again, maybe not? I wouldn't have thought they'd turn him heel at this point so who the hell knows where this is going. I read earlier that he flew out to Africa to resume filming his new movie immediately after the event, which isn't a great start. I hope he's part of the build, otherwise this will fall a bit flat. I think most people had hoped he was going to devote more time to WWE for his last year and sort of take a break from Hollywood.
It definitely helps the build to Cena Vs Cody at Mania for Cena to be heel. Should have happened a long time ago, and I think if Vince hadn't been in charge it would have, but oh well. Cena has made it clear in interviews that he's wanted to go heel for some time (I think he wanted to be a full on heel in the Rock feud) so it's cool that he gets to do that now, albeit very strange timing.
I've seen comparisons to Hogan in '96 but I don't really see it. Hogan was a full timer still at the top of the business when he turned heel, and still had a few years left as an active full time (ish) worker. Cena hasn't been full time in, what, a decade nearly? Even in 2016 he was in and out. The heel turn for Cena is cool but as you noted, even now he isn't full time as even on his retirement tour he's still mixing his Hollywood commitments with wrestling.
So yeah, for me a cool moment but a bit late for it to be majorly impactful in any meaningful way beyond the WM build. Although, at least turning heel now actually does make Cena a heel. If he'd turned during the height of LOLCENAWINS he'd probably have ended up being cheered instead.
I've seen comparisons to Hogan in '96 but I don't really see it. Hogan was a full timer still at the top of the business when he turned heel, and still had a few years left as an active full time (ish) worker. Cena hasn't been full time in, what, a decade nearly? Even in 2016 he was in and out. The heel turn for Cena is cool but as you noted, even now he isn't full time as even on his retirement tour he's still mixing his Hollywood commitments with wrestling.
So yeah, for me a cool moment but a bit late for it to be majorly impactful in any meaningful way beyond the WM build. Although, at least turning heel now actually does make Cena a heel. If he'd turned during the height of LOLCENAWINS he'd probably have ended up being cheered instead.
Yeah, this wasn't even close to Hogan in '96 imo. When Hogan turned, there was complete disbelief and shock. The crowd literally covered the ring in garbage. The crowd in Toronto cheered when Cena turned. It's not even comparable to me. I don't mean to diminish Cena's turn but it's coming very late in his career and it's riding the line between being somewhat interesting and jumping the shark. That may be me being somewhat cynical, but for reasons mentioned, this has the potential to sort of fall flat depending on where this goes. There's 6-7 weeks until Mania and if Cena is going to be filming a movie, it's really going to hurt this. In fact, if Cena isn't going to be there during the build, I would almost say they could've done the turn at Mania: Cena loses to Cody and snaps. That would've been a shocking end to the show. But again, I obviously have no idea where they're going here, so I guess it's time to sit back and see what they do.
I think you can maybe get away with Cena not being at Raw tonight. It's not ideal, but you can build the show around people acting shocked at what happened - focus promos, backstage vignettes, etc on people trying to process what happened. Kinda similar to how WCW had various wrestlers discussing Hogan's heel turn on the July 8 Nitro (although Hogan was at that show, from memory he came out at the end for a promo). Let the indignation, shock, disappointment, etc really build to the next show.
However, if Cena is away for multiple weeks then it severely dilutes the whole thing. We aren't even that far away from WM so every week without Cena being there is a week wasted. If they wanted to turn Cena heel then it should be an all-in commitment from both sides. If that isn't possible, then just don't do it.
If you think about Hogan's heel turn - he was a face in WCW for roughly 2 years, from mid-1994 to mid-1996. The writing was on the wall, fans had turned on him (although not as viciously as they did with Cena) and so he did the logical thing and turned heel. Cena turned face around 2004/2005ish, and much like Hogan got turned on by fans quite quickly, but it took them 20 years to do a heel turn, despite constant and overwhelming rejection of his face role (up until very recently, anyway).
Imagine WCW kept going, but they also didn't turn Hogan heel at BotB '96. Imagine them waiting until 2015 before turning Hogan heel, during his final retirement year no less. Putting aside age differences and such (you have to de-age Hogan a bit for this scenario to work), that sounds absolutely ridiculous. To have pushed good guy Hulk Hogan for 20 years despite the fans not wanting it - and having him repeatedly win world titles and dominate during a significant portion of that time. Then finally turn him heel when his career is essentially over, having resisted the opportunity to turn him heel countless times in the past. It sounds like total insanity. That's basically what WWE have done with Cena. It's obviously Vince's fault this happened and Cena probably would have remained a face until the bitter end if Vince was still there, but man, it's just so stupid when you really think about it.
However, if Cena is away for multiple weeks then it severely dilutes the whole thing. We aren't even that far away from WM so every week without Cena being there is a week wasted. If they wanted to turn Cena heel then it should be an all-in commitment from both sides. If that isn't possible, then just don't do it.
If you think about Hogan's heel turn - he was a face in WCW for roughly 2 years, from mid-1994 to mid-1996. The writing was on the wall, fans had turned on him (although not as viciously as they did with Cena) and so he did the logical thing and turned heel. Cena turned face around 2004/2005ish, and much like Hogan got turned on by fans quite quickly, but it took them 20 years to do a heel turn, despite constant and overwhelming rejection of his face role (up until very recently, anyway).
Imagine WCW kept going, but they also didn't turn Hogan heel at BotB '96. Imagine them waiting until 2015 before turning Hogan heel, during his final retirement year no less. Putting aside age differences and such (you have to de-age Hogan a bit for this scenario to work), that sounds absolutely ridiculous. To have pushed good guy Hulk Hogan for 20 years despite the fans not wanting it - and having him repeatedly win world titles and dominate during a significant portion of that time. Then finally turn him heel when his career is essentially over, having resisted the opportunity to turn him heel countless times in the past. It sounds like total insanity. That's basically what WWE have done with Cena. It's obviously Vince's fault this happened and Cena probably would have remained a face until the bitter end if Vince was still there, but man, it's just so stupid when you really think about it.
Speaking of Hogan, I saw that the Hogan Wrestlemania VIP experience got slashed by 30% because nobody is paying for it. I can't imagine paying $10,000 to meet ANYONE, let alone Hulk Hogan. I can honestly say that watching Wrestlemania with Hulk Hogan while drinking his shitty beer would be worse than watching it by myself on a 15inch CRT monitor.
Frankly Hogan gets less relevant with each passing year. He barely makes any appearances on TV, barely even gets mentioned in passing nowadays. He's alienated a lot of his remaining fans with shitty behaviour. Truthfully even if he'd kept himself clean over the past decade his time has passed. He was last relevant as an active wrestler in what, 2002/2003ish? It's been over 20 years. As Brock Lesnar once said, "party's over, grandpa".
I have to say I was pretty underwhelmed with Cena's first heel promo. I like that he kept his usual theme and attire, and the reasoning behind it was solid. Most of the promo was so basic though. There were a lot of callbacks he could have made or routes he could have gone down to make it interesting, but he just kept repeating "you've all been so awful" - with awful not really being a great choice of word to begin with. It also seemed like a promo being delivered at least 5 or 6 years out of date. Cena has been gradually seeing better crowd reception since around 2017, and people have welcomed him back openly over the past few years. He didn't explain why he waited until people actually did respect him to suddenly turn heel. There is a logic that could be brought in there ("the hypocrisy of fans suddenly cheering for me just because I'd been gone for a while made me sick"), but he just pretended like that acceptance has never happened.
Maybe promos going forward will go into further details and nuance, but for a promo that went on for so long, it didn't feel like he said much that was interesting. Cody calling him a whiny bitch was about right, and I have to say it's not the path I would have gone down. I would have preferred a cocky, arrogant Cena taking real shots at the fans (not just "you're awful" and "you're living your life through me because your life sucks", yawn) rather than a pouty, whining loser.
Although I will say him singling out the kid in the crowd and then the camera showing the kid looking shellshocked was great, lmao. But still, even though it was an okay "I am a heel now" promo, it was just okay to me. Functional, standard, average. I expected more from a guy who must have had plenty of resentment inside him for years over being rejected by the fans and being unable to turn heel thanks to Vince. It could have been an all-timer promo and was instead just a passable one, boosted slightly by the nuclear crowd heat.
I actually thought Punk's promo from the night after the PPV was 1000x better. Calling Cena and Rock bald-headed frauds
Punks's promo felt authentic, like a real guy venting his anger. Cena's felt like a wrestling promo.
I have to say I was pretty underwhelmed with Cena's first heel promo. I like that he kept his usual theme and attire, and the reasoning behind it was solid. Most of the promo was so basic though. There were a lot of callbacks he could have made or routes he could have gone down to make it interesting, but he just kept repeating "you've all been so awful" - with awful not really being a great choice of word to begin with. It also seemed like a promo being delivered at least 5 or 6 years out of date. Cena has been gradually seeing better crowd reception since around 2017, and people have welcomed him back openly over the past few years. He didn't explain why he waited until people actually did respect him to suddenly turn heel. There is a logic that could be brought in there ("the hypocrisy of fans suddenly cheering for me just because I'd been gone for a while made me sick"), but he just pretended like that acceptance has never happened.
Maybe promos going forward will go into further details and nuance, but for a promo that went on for so long, it didn't feel like he said much that was interesting. Cody calling him a whiny bitch was about right, and I have to say it's not the path I would have gone down. I would have preferred a cocky, arrogant Cena taking real shots at the fans (not just "you're awful" and "you're living your life through me because your life sucks", yawn) rather than a pouty, whining loser.
Although I will say him singling out the kid in the crowd and then the camera showing the kid looking shellshocked was great, lmao. But still, even though it was an okay "I am a heel now" promo, it was just okay to me. Functional, standard, average. I expected more from a guy who must have had plenty of resentment inside him for years over being rejected by the fans and being unable to turn heel thanks to Vince. It could have been an all-timer promo and was instead just a passable one, boosted slightly by the nuclear crowd heat.
I actually thought Punk's promo from the night after the PPV was 1000x better. Calling Cena and Rock bald-headed frauds
Punks's promo felt authentic, like a real guy venting his anger. Cena's felt like a wrestling promo.
Punk is doing a pretty damn good job with this run. People were saying he was going to be injured all the time, you were gonna see the "old Punk", etc. He seems to be genuinely happy to be there, his programs have been solid, especially with Drew. I would have booked this CM Punk / Seth Rollins / Roman Reigns love triangle much differently, but whatever. My money is on Paul Heyman turning on both Roman and Punk at Mania and aligning himself with Rollins who will go on a big heel run. All the focus is going to be on 'who is Heyman going to side with, Roman or Punk?' and then you get the blindside. You can almost see the promos now: Heyman referring to Rollins as HIS messiah, HIS architect, etc. Heyman isn't suited to being a babyface manager/wiseman/consultant/advocate.
Cena and Cody is going alright I guess. I have no idea who is going to win their Mania match, so I guess that's good. I'm 50/50 on it and think either one could win it.
Cena and Cody is going alright I guess. I have no idea who is going to win their Mania match, so I guess that's good. I'm 50/50 on it and think either one could win it.
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