Honestly most pub food here is pretty good. Wetherspoons is one of the cheapest options, so that always raises the risk that you're going to get a below par meal. If you're paying a decent price then you almost always get good food - in pubs around here, anyway.
Let's talk wrasslin'
- Thread starter The Grayfox
- Start date
A close friend of mine was in the UK last year and he sent me a lot of pictures of food because it's something we both love and have been discussing since we were kids. Anyway, everything he sent looked incredibly good. A lot of bridies, bangers and mash, pies, puddings. Dude had a full English almost every day he was there.
Yeah, I was watching live and we went from Cody telling the Rock to go fuck himself, uncensored, to Cena turning heel to Michael Cole asking why Cena would "stoop to this shit?!" Things have definitely changed a bit. My initial thought was "ok, now I can get behind this match" because initially the thought of a babyface vs. babyface match and it's build leading to Mania sounded like an absolute snoozefest. At least with this we get to (hopefully) see corporate sellout Cena for a while, which is a nice change of pace.
I imagine he will revert back to a babyface before the year is up to go out that way. But then again, maybe not? I wouldn't have thought they'd turn him heel at this point so who the hell knows where this is going. I read earlier that he flew out to Africa to resume filming his new movie immediately after the event, which isn't a great start. I hope he's part of the build, otherwise this will fall a bit flat. I think most people had hoped he was going to devote more time to WWE for his last year and sort of take a break from Hollywood.
I imagine he will revert back to a babyface before the year is up to go out that way. But then again, maybe not? I wouldn't have thought they'd turn him heel at this point so who the hell knows where this is going. I read earlier that he flew out to Africa to resume filming his new movie immediately after the event, which isn't a great start. I hope he's part of the build, otherwise this will fall a bit flat. I think most people had hoped he was going to devote more time to WWE for his last year and sort of take a break from Hollywood.
It definitely helps the build to Cena Vs Cody at Mania for Cena to be heel. Should have happened a long time ago, and I think if Vince hadn't been in charge it would have, but oh well. Cena has made it clear in interviews that he's wanted to go heel for some time (I think he wanted to be a full on heel in the Rock feud) so it's cool that he gets to do that now, albeit very strange timing.
I've seen comparisons to Hogan in '96 but I don't really see it. Hogan was a full timer still at the top of the business when he turned heel, and still had a few years left as an active full time (ish) worker. Cena hasn't been full time in, what, a decade nearly? Even in 2016 he was in and out. The heel turn for Cena is cool but as you noted, even now he isn't full time as even on his retirement tour he's still mixing his Hollywood commitments with wrestling.
So yeah, for me a cool moment but a bit late for it to be majorly impactful in any meaningful way beyond the WM build. Although, at least turning heel now actually does make Cena a heel. If he'd turned during the height of LOLCENAWINS he'd probably have ended up being cheered instead.
I've seen comparisons to Hogan in '96 but I don't really see it. Hogan was a full timer still at the top of the business when he turned heel, and still had a few years left as an active full time (ish) worker. Cena hasn't been full time in, what, a decade nearly? Even in 2016 he was in and out. The heel turn for Cena is cool but as you noted, even now he isn't full time as even on his retirement tour he's still mixing his Hollywood commitments with wrestling.
So yeah, for me a cool moment but a bit late for it to be majorly impactful in any meaningful way beyond the WM build. Although, at least turning heel now actually does make Cena a heel. If he'd turned during the height of LOLCENAWINS he'd probably have ended up being cheered instead.
Yeah, this wasn't even close to Hogan in '96 imo. When Hogan turned, there was complete disbelief and shock. The crowd literally covered the ring in garbage. The crowd in Toronto cheered when Cena turned. It's not even comparable to me. I don't mean to diminish Cena's turn but it's coming very late in his career and it's riding the line between being somewhat interesting and jumping the shark. That may be me being somewhat cynical, but for reasons mentioned, this has the potential to sort of fall flat depending on where this goes. There's 6-7 weeks until Mania and if Cena is going to be filming a movie, it's really going to hurt this. In fact, if Cena isn't going to be there during the build, I would almost say they could've done the turn at Mania: Cena loses to Cody and snaps. That would've been a shocking end to the show. But again, I obviously have no idea where they're going here, so I guess it's time to sit back and see what they do.
I think you can maybe get away with Cena not being at Raw tonight. It's not ideal, but you can build the show around people acting shocked at what happened - focus promos, backstage vignettes, etc on people trying to process what happened. Kinda similar to how WCW had various wrestlers discussing Hogan's heel turn on the July 8 Nitro (although Hogan was at that show, from memory he came out at the end for a promo). Let the indignation, shock, disappointment, etc really build to the next show.
However, if Cena is away for multiple weeks then it severely dilutes the whole thing. We aren't even that far away from WM so every week without Cena being there is a week wasted. If they wanted to turn Cena heel then it should be an all-in commitment from both sides. If that isn't possible, then just don't do it.
If you think about Hogan's heel turn - he was a face in WCW for roughly 2 years, from mid-1994 to mid-1996. The writing was on the wall, fans had turned on him (although not as viciously as they did with Cena) and so he did the logical thing and turned heel. Cena turned face around 2004/2005ish, and much like Hogan got turned on by fans quite quickly, but it took them 20 years to do a heel turn, despite constant and overwhelming rejection of his face role (up until very recently, anyway).
Imagine WCW kept going, but they also didn't turn Hogan heel at BotB '96. Imagine them waiting until 2015 before turning Hogan heel, during his final retirement year no less. Putting aside age differences and such (you have to de-age Hogan a bit for this scenario to work), that sounds absolutely ridiculous. To have pushed good guy Hulk Hogan for 20 years despite the fans not wanting it - and having him repeatedly win world titles and dominate during a significant portion of that time. Then finally turn him heel when his career is essentially over, having resisted the opportunity to turn him heel countless times in the past. It sounds like total insanity. That's basically what WWE have done with Cena. It's obviously Vince's fault this happened and Cena probably would have remained a face until the bitter end if Vince was still there, but man, it's just so stupid when you really think about it.
However, if Cena is away for multiple weeks then it severely dilutes the whole thing. We aren't even that far away from WM so every week without Cena being there is a week wasted. If they wanted to turn Cena heel then it should be an all-in commitment from both sides. If that isn't possible, then just don't do it.
If you think about Hogan's heel turn - he was a face in WCW for roughly 2 years, from mid-1994 to mid-1996. The writing was on the wall, fans had turned on him (although not as viciously as they did with Cena) and so he did the logical thing and turned heel. Cena turned face around 2004/2005ish, and much like Hogan got turned on by fans quite quickly, but it took them 20 years to do a heel turn, despite constant and overwhelming rejection of his face role (up until very recently, anyway).
Imagine WCW kept going, but they also didn't turn Hogan heel at BotB '96. Imagine them waiting until 2015 before turning Hogan heel, during his final retirement year no less. Putting aside age differences and such (you have to de-age Hogan a bit for this scenario to work), that sounds absolutely ridiculous. To have pushed good guy Hulk Hogan for 20 years despite the fans not wanting it - and having him repeatedly win world titles and dominate during a significant portion of that time. Then finally turn him heel when his career is essentially over, having resisted the opportunity to turn him heel countless times in the past. It sounds like total insanity. That's basically what WWE have done with Cena. It's obviously Vince's fault this happened and Cena probably would have remained a face until the bitter end if Vince was still there, but man, it's just so stupid when you really think about it.
Speaking of Hogan, I saw that the Hogan Wrestlemania VIP experience got slashed by 30% because nobody is paying for it. I can't imagine paying $10,000 to meet ANYONE, let alone Hulk Hogan. I can honestly say that watching Wrestlemania with Hulk Hogan while drinking his shitty beer would be worse than watching it by myself on a 15inch CRT monitor.
Frankly Hogan gets less relevant with each passing year. He barely makes any appearances on TV, barely even gets mentioned in passing nowadays. He's alienated a lot of his remaining fans with shitty behaviour. Truthfully even if he'd kept himself clean over the past decade his time has passed. He was last relevant as an active wrestler in what, 2002/2003ish? It's been over 20 years. As Brock Lesnar once said, "party's over, grandpa".
I have to say I was pretty underwhelmed with Cena's first heel promo. I like that he kept his usual theme and attire, and the reasoning behind it was solid. Most of the promo was so basic though. There were a lot of callbacks he could have made or routes he could have gone down to make it interesting, but he just kept repeating "you've all been so awful" - with awful not really being a great choice of word to begin with. It also seemed like a promo being delivered at least 5 or 6 years out of date. Cena has been gradually seeing better crowd reception since around 2017, and people have welcomed him back openly over the past few years. He didn't explain why he waited until people actually did respect him to suddenly turn heel. There is a logic that could be brought in there ("the hypocrisy of fans suddenly cheering for me just because I'd been gone for a while made me sick"), but he just pretended like that acceptance has never happened.
Maybe promos going forward will go into further details and nuance, but for a promo that went on for so long, it didn't feel like he said much that was interesting. Cody calling him a whiny bitch was about right, and I have to say it's not the path I would have gone down. I would have preferred a cocky, arrogant Cena taking real shots at the fans (not just "you're awful" and "you're living your life through me because your life sucks", yawn) rather than a pouty, whining loser.
Although I will say him singling out the kid in the crowd and then the camera showing the kid looking shellshocked was great, lmao. But still, even though it was an okay "I am a heel now" promo, it was just okay to me. Functional, standard, average. I expected more from a guy who must have had plenty of resentment inside him for years over being rejected by the fans and being unable to turn heel thanks to Vince. It could have been an all-timer promo and was instead just a passable one, boosted slightly by the nuclear crowd heat.
I actually thought Punk's promo from the night after the PPV was 1000x better. Calling Cena and Rock bald-headed frauds
Punks's promo felt authentic, like a real guy venting his anger. Cena's felt like a wrestling promo.
I have to say I was pretty underwhelmed with Cena's first heel promo. I like that he kept his usual theme and attire, and the reasoning behind it was solid. Most of the promo was so basic though. There were a lot of callbacks he could have made or routes he could have gone down to make it interesting, but he just kept repeating "you've all been so awful" - with awful not really being a great choice of word to begin with. It also seemed like a promo being delivered at least 5 or 6 years out of date. Cena has been gradually seeing better crowd reception since around 2017, and people have welcomed him back openly over the past few years. He didn't explain why he waited until people actually did respect him to suddenly turn heel. There is a logic that could be brought in there ("the hypocrisy of fans suddenly cheering for me just because I'd been gone for a while made me sick"), but he just pretended like that acceptance has never happened.
Maybe promos going forward will go into further details and nuance, but for a promo that went on for so long, it didn't feel like he said much that was interesting. Cody calling him a whiny bitch was about right, and I have to say it's not the path I would have gone down. I would have preferred a cocky, arrogant Cena taking real shots at the fans (not just "you're awful" and "you're living your life through me because your life sucks", yawn) rather than a pouty, whining loser.
Although I will say him singling out the kid in the crowd and then the camera showing the kid looking shellshocked was great, lmao. But still, even though it was an okay "I am a heel now" promo, it was just okay to me. Functional, standard, average. I expected more from a guy who must have had plenty of resentment inside him for years over being rejected by the fans and being unable to turn heel thanks to Vince. It could have been an all-timer promo and was instead just a passable one, boosted slightly by the nuclear crowd heat.
I actually thought Punk's promo from the night after the PPV was 1000x better. Calling Cena and Rock bald-headed frauds
Punks's promo felt authentic, like a real guy venting his anger. Cena's felt like a wrestling promo.
Punk is doing a pretty damn good job with this run. People were saying he was going to be injured all the time, you were gonna see the "old Punk", etc. He seems to be genuinely happy to be there, his programs have been solid, especially with Drew. I would have booked this CM Punk / Seth Rollins / Roman Reigns love triangle much differently, but whatever. My money is on Paul Heyman turning on both Roman and Punk at Mania and aligning himself with Rollins who will go on a big heel run. All the focus is going to be on 'who is Heyman going to side with, Roman or Punk?' and then you get the blindside. You can almost see the promos now: Heyman referring to Rollins as HIS messiah, HIS architect, etc. Heyman isn't suited to being a babyface manager/wiseman/consultant/advocate.
Cena and Cody is going alright I guess. I have no idea who is going to win their Mania match, so I guess that's good. I'm 50/50 on it and think either one could win it.
Cena and Cody is going alright I guess. I have no idea who is going to win their Mania match, so I guess that's good. I'm 50/50 on it and think either one could win it.
WWE doing some weird Wrestlemania PR considering recent news their audience has dropped 35% since moving to Netflix. Can't say I'm surprised by the drop, for the record. Triple H's booking philosophy worked in the NXT format of 1 hour weekly TV and a PPV every quarter. It's being brutally exposed for being too slow, too formulaic and too predictable for the main product though. Still better than Vince, but the storylines move in slow motion.
But yeah, PR. Triple H and Roman Reigns coming out as full on Trumpers. Punk saying workers should be paid more, but he's got his bag so fuck that noise. Cena saying he still loves Vince. Stephanie interviewing Dana White. Nick Khan hilariously calling WWE "underdogs" and claiming they never bench anyone. Lol. Triple H for some reason shitting on Jey as a wrestler and telling fans to shut up and consume, rather than criticise. He obviously didn't learn from the "me and my friend Mark" fiasco.
Basically just making sure we all know that even though Vince is gone, the company remains a cesspool led by dickheads. Wrestling fans tend to lean left so I'm not sure why their answer to declining viewership is to just say fuck you to those fans even louder. If they think they'll get the right wing, UFC crowd then think again. Those people will never be on board.
But yeah, PR. Triple H and Roman Reigns coming out as full on Trumpers. Punk saying workers should be paid more, but he's got his bag so fuck that noise. Cena saying he still loves Vince. Stephanie interviewing Dana White. Nick Khan hilariously calling WWE "underdogs" and claiming they never bench anyone. Lol. Triple H for some reason shitting on Jey as a wrestler and telling fans to shut up and consume, rather than criticise. He obviously didn't learn from the "me and my friend Mark" fiasco.
Basically just making sure we all know that even though Vince is gone, the company remains a cesspool led by dickheads. Wrestling fans tend to lean left so I'm not sure why their answer to declining viewership is to just say fuck you to those fans even louder. If they think they'll get the right wing, UFC crowd then think again. Those people will never be on board.
I really wanted to believe that Triple H's booking was going to be better. I hung in there for a long time, but after this weekend, I'm out. Between all the MAGA bullshit, shoving wrestlers down our throats... he's really no different than Vince McMahon and it's starting to show more and more every day. Tonight was one of the worst Mania main events EVER. It was absolutely awful. All the stuff you mentioned is ridiculous. Stephanie launching her podcast with Dana White as the guest and then immediately saying the number one rule on said podcast is "no douche bags?" Jesus. Talk about tone deaf. Roman talking about how great Trump is? Again, tone deaf. The multi-millionaire who will never again have to worry about things that the 'commoners' worry about, talking about how Trump is some sort of savior and insinuating that being a good showman makes a good president? Fuck off with that.
The amount of times Vince was mentioned during this weekend was sickening. HHH mentioned him in interviews, he mentioned him in his HOF speech, Cena mentioned him in interviews, Bill Apter seriously stood up and thanked HHH in the post show scrum for bringing up Vince McMahon. It was like "shit Bill, just go jerk him off up there." It's all absurd. We're well aware of what Vince McMahon accomplished with his company. Acting like he's some sort of god and ignoring the heinous shit he's done is tacky as all hell.
WrestleMania felt like a huge advertisement. It really put me off. The ads in the ring, the ads on the barricade, the commercials between matches, wrestlers coming out dressed as video game characters so commentary could advertise that game. It was horrible. This money grubbing company just can't get enough. Makes me long for the times when the only mention of a product was at the beginning of a PPV. "Karate Fighters presents..." and that was it. Two fucking nights of shilling was maddening.
There was good wrestling. There was also terrible wrestling. But even with the matches that were really, really good -- Seth/Punk/Roman, IYO/Rhea/Bianca, the bad matches were really bad. The bad of Mania felt like it outweighed the good. I wonder if the woman in the front row will sue WWE for the Austin/ATV incident. If so, it couldn't happen to a better company. I guess it's back to old school wrestling. Maybe I'll watch early-mid TNA since I never really gave it much of a shot. I certainly don't want to waste my time with WWE and AEW at this point.
The amount of times Vince was mentioned during this weekend was sickening. HHH mentioned him in interviews, he mentioned him in his HOF speech, Cena mentioned him in interviews, Bill Apter seriously stood up and thanked HHH in the post show scrum for bringing up Vince McMahon. It was like "shit Bill, just go jerk him off up there." It's all absurd. We're well aware of what Vince McMahon accomplished with his company. Acting like he's some sort of god and ignoring the heinous shit he's done is tacky as all hell.
WrestleMania felt like a huge advertisement. It really put me off. The ads in the ring, the ads on the barricade, the commercials between matches, wrestlers coming out dressed as video game characters so commentary could advertise that game. It was horrible. This money grubbing company just can't get enough. Makes me long for the times when the only mention of a product was at the beginning of a PPV. "Karate Fighters presents..." and that was it. Two fucking nights of shilling was maddening.
There was good wrestling. There was also terrible wrestling. But even with the matches that were really, really good -- Seth/Punk/Roman, IYO/Rhea/Bianca, the bad matches were really bad. The bad of Mania felt like it outweighed the good. I wonder if the woman in the front row will sue WWE for the Austin/ATV incident. If so, it couldn't happen to a better company. I guess it's back to old school wrestling. Maybe I'll watch early-mid TNA since I never really gave it much of a shot. I certainly don't want to waste my time with WWE and AEW at this point.
Yeah I have to say WrestleMania left me cold. I did try to watch the Raw episodes leading up to it, but I can't say I really enjoyed much of it. Punk's promos are always solid. Cody did a solid enough job in his role. Cena's heel persona feels too much like 'acting' to me, as opposed to being a more realistic heel. He's really been hamming it up and it just takes me out of the moment. Like, he has every reason to snap back at some of the fans, but the way he's done it has been more cartoonish than real. It just hasn't clicked for me. Everything else has just been by the books storytelling - which is OK, but when you know what every story beat is going to be it's not really that interesting for a fan who has been watching for decades and has seen these stories play out so many times. Maybe that's just the jaded fan in me, but even during Triple H's NXT tenure I generally only watched the Takeovers and didn't bother with the weekly show. It felt like you missed nothing by just waiting until the PPV and watching the hype packages.
The advertising and branding shit is indeed tiresome. It's just in your face constantly and feels so artificial. It's been much worse since TKO came to power. It's not a surprise, but it's annoying.
Also WWE buying AAA sucks. I know AAA these days is a joke, and it's the equivalent of buying the Mexican version of 2001 WCW, but still.
Now, as far as WrestleMania is concerned...
Saturday
I swear Triple H appears at the start of all of the big events now. Vince wasn't coming out to introduce every big show, so why does Triple H need to do it? Just seemed like a pointless way to put himself in the spotlight.
Gunther Vs. Jey was a solid match and a good opener, with a feel-good title change. I have to admit, whilst I liked Gunther as part of Imperium, I am so-so on him as a singles guy. He just isn't that interesting to me. Jey has a lot of charisma and it's cool to see a guy get over naturally and then win the big one. I can't imagine Jey getting this kind of push under Vince, as I don't think Vince would have seen him as a true "star" worthy of having the strap. I don't think Jey is a great wrestler, but he has the crowd with him and that's the crucial part. The whole YEET thing is a bit cringy as 'yeet' isn't even that relevant as modern slang, and it's worse when you have the likes of Michael Cole dancing and 'yeeting'. It just makes the whole thing seem really uncool. Cole has been much better since Vince left, but sometimes I feel like he needs to pull back a little. You didn't have JR and King dancing around when Too Cool came out. Pat maybe gets away with it to a degree, although I also find him pretty grating these days as a commentator.
Viking Raiders/New Day was another solid match with a predictable finish. They really had to give New Day the belts here, as it felt like they'd been spinning their wheels for a long time since their initial heel turn.
Jade vs Naomi was decent, hiding Jade's weaknesses and accentuating her strengths. It's still weird for me to see her in WWE rather than AEW - especially as her entrance is very similar to her AEW entrance, down to a copycat entrance theme. Still, she has the look of a star and her power moves are impressive, so if they handle her correctly she will be a big draw.
I hadn't seen the buildup to LA Night Vs Jacob Fatu so I wasn't particularly invested in this one. They put on a decent match, but at this point I was like... that's four matches and three title changes.
Rey Fenix Vs El Grande Americano - again, weird to see Rey Fenix in WWE as, much like Penta and Jade, I have such strong association between him and AEW. I don't necessarily have an issue with the Americano gimmick, as it's obviously meant to be a joke, not a serious jab at Mexico. It's a shame Gable seems destined to be stuck in these goofy comedy gimmicks forevermore though. Much like Owen Hart, the brass just don't see that technical excellence as being enough to justify a serious push for Gable. His height obviously works against him - a bit taller and he might have been the next Kurt Angle. Instead, Shorty G and now this. Well, at least he won.
Tiffany Vs Charlotte had a batshit insane buildup, but the match mostly delivered. Clunky in spots and a couple of botches, but it was overall quite a hard hitting match and Tiffany going over was the right call. Not sure where Charlotte goes from here. She has that X-Pac 'go away' heat which is never good, especially considering she had been gone for some time until recently. It's weird seeing Charlotte now - the plastic surgery has made her facially almost unrecognisable from a few years ago.
Punk/Reigns/Rollins was, imo, hurt a little by the fact it wasn't for a title. Personal grudges can be a compelling storyline, and certainly they are in this case, but I always feel like the main event of WM should either be for the title or - in a two night event - have stakes for the title match on night two. Heyman's turn at the end was well done (I struggle to call it a heel turn as he's never really been a babyface). Overall a fun way to end the first night.
In general I'd say Night One was quite good, and I much preferred it to Night Two. Speaking of which...
Sunday
Iyo/Bianca/Rhea was a fantastic opener for night two. Might have been the best match of the weekend. The ladies really brought their A game here, and they meshed together really well. I thought the build was a bit suspect as times, but the match itself was executed extremely well. It was cool that Iyo won and retained her title, as it would have been easy to put the belt back onto Bianca or Rhea. A good start.
Drew and Priest worked hard but I just could not care less about this match.
Bron/Penta/Dom/Finn was another really good match. Some cool spots, everyone looked good, and Dom winning at the end wasn't what I was expecting - although it made sense with the storyline taken into account. Dom is at that point most reviled heels get to where the fans have started to love the fact he's such a great heel and so begin cheering him instead. Organically it should lead to Dom switching to a babyface role, and Triple H, for all his faults as a booker, does normally go with the flow in these situations. Much like with MJF in AEW, it's going to be difficult to take such a well-established genuine heel and turn them face without losing what made the fans love the wrestler in the first place. We'll see where they go with it - presumably Finn obliterating Dom at some point and pitting the two against each other. I just hope getting to that point doesn't take forever.
Mixed feelings on Randy Orton Vs Joe Hendry. Of course, it's very cool for Hendry to get onto that stage against one of the biggest legends in the business. I don't think TNA necessarily loses face by having their champion get beaten by a guy like Orton - it's just a shame they couldn't have given the match a bit longer. Three minutes is too close to 'squash' territory for my liking. If you're going to put your champion in there, you'd at least want him to have a good, competitive match, even if he takes the loss in the end. Still, it'll be a moment Joe Hendry will always remember, particularly with the fans knowing exactly who he was.
Logan Paul Vs AJ Styles, another one I couldn't have cared less about. Shit build, Logan Paul is a turd irrespective of his natural abilities in the ring, and AJ Styles deserves better considering he won't have many more WM matches. The whole thing, including Karrion Kross' involvement, just fell flat for me. Not that the match was bad, it just didn't mean anything.
Liv/Raquel Vs Tyra/Lynch was a decent enough tag match. Obviously cool to see Becky return, and the title change made for a crowd-pleasing moment (although they switched it back on Raw).
Stone Cold and the ATV incident... JHC. Absolutely reckless from WWE. Why was SCSA driving the thing that fast? He looked out of control from the start, and it was an accident waiting to happen. You could tell it threw Austin off and he just wanted to get out of there. I won't shed any tears if WWE gets sued.
Cena/Rhodes simply did not live up to the hype. The match was average and the ending was shit. Nobody gives a single shit about Travis Scott. No interference would have been better than what we got. Hell, since Stone Cold was there, why not have him come down and counter an appearance by The Rock? Speaking of, where was Dwayne? His absence was baffling considering he was the catalyst for the heel turn in the first place.
Personally I thought it was one of the worst WM main events, with the level of hype factored in, and the finish was awful. A real mood-killer to end night two.
So yeah, whilst night two had some genuinely great matches, I preferred night one. The main event of night two absolutely killed the whole thing for me.
The advertising and branding shit is indeed tiresome. It's just in your face constantly and feels so artificial. It's been much worse since TKO came to power. It's not a surprise, but it's annoying.
Also WWE buying AAA sucks. I know AAA these days is a joke, and it's the equivalent of buying the Mexican version of 2001 WCW, but still.
Now, as far as WrestleMania is concerned...
Saturday
I swear Triple H appears at the start of all of the big events now. Vince wasn't coming out to introduce every big show, so why does Triple H need to do it? Just seemed like a pointless way to put himself in the spotlight.
Gunther Vs. Jey was a solid match and a good opener, with a feel-good title change. I have to admit, whilst I liked Gunther as part of Imperium, I am so-so on him as a singles guy. He just isn't that interesting to me. Jey has a lot of charisma and it's cool to see a guy get over naturally and then win the big one. I can't imagine Jey getting this kind of push under Vince, as I don't think Vince would have seen him as a true "star" worthy of having the strap. I don't think Jey is a great wrestler, but he has the crowd with him and that's the crucial part. The whole YEET thing is a bit cringy as 'yeet' isn't even that relevant as modern slang, and it's worse when you have the likes of Michael Cole dancing and 'yeeting'. It just makes the whole thing seem really uncool. Cole has been much better since Vince left, but sometimes I feel like he needs to pull back a little. You didn't have JR and King dancing around when Too Cool came out. Pat maybe gets away with it to a degree, although I also find him pretty grating these days as a commentator.
Viking Raiders/New Day was another solid match with a predictable finish. They really had to give New Day the belts here, as it felt like they'd been spinning their wheels for a long time since their initial heel turn.
Jade vs Naomi was decent, hiding Jade's weaknesses and accentuating her strengths. It's still weird for me to see her in WWE rather than AEW - especially as her entrance is very similar to her AEW entrance, down to a copycat entrance theme. Still, she has the look of a star and her power moves are impressive, so if they handle her correctly she will be a big draw.
I hadn't seen the buildup to LA Night Vs Jacob Fatu so I wasn't particularly invested in this one. They put on a decent match, but at this point I was like... that's four matches and three title changes.
Rey Fenix Vs El Grande Americano - again, weird to see Rey Fenix in WWE as, much like Penta and Jade, I have such strong association between him and AEW. I don't necessarily have an issue with the Americano gimmick, as it's obviously meant to be a joke, not a serious jab at Mexico. It's a shame Gable seems destined to be stuck in these goofy comedy gimmicks forevermore though. Much like Owen Hart, the brass just don't see that technical excellence as being enough to justify a serious push for Gable. His height obviously works against him - a bit taller and he might have been the next Kurt Angle. Instead, Shorty G and now this. Well, at least he won.
Tiffany Vs Charlotte had a batshit insane buildup, but the match mostly delivered. Clunky in spots and a couple of botches, but it was overall quite a hard hitting match and Tiffany going over was the right call. Not sure where Charlotte goes from here. She has that X-Pac 'go away' heat which is never good, especially considering she had been gone for some time until recently. It's weird seeing Charlotte now - the plastic surgery has made her facially almost unrecognisable from a few years ago.
Punk/Reigns/Rollins was, imo, hurt a little by the fact it wasn't for a title. Personal grudges can be a compelling storyline, and certainly they are in this case, but I always feel like the main event of WM should either be for the title or - in a two night event - have stakes for the title match on night two. Heyman's turn at the end was well done (I struggle to call it a heel turn as he's never really been a babyface). Overall a fun way to end the first night.
In general I'd say Night One was quite good, and I much preferred it to Night Two. Speaking of which...
Sunday
Iyo/Bianca/Rhea was a fantastic opener for night two. Might have been the best match of the weekend. The ladies really brought their A game here, and they meshed together really well. I thought the build was a bit suspect as times, but the match itself was executed extremely well. It was cool that Iyo won and retained her title, as it would have been easy to put the belt back onto Bianca or Rhea. A good start.
Drew and Priest worked hard but I just could not care less about this match.
Bron/Penta/Dom/Finn was another really good match. Some cool spots, everyone looked good, and Dom winning at the end wasn't what I was expecting - although it made sense with the storyline taken into account. Dom is at that point most reviled heels get to where the fans have started to love the fact he's such a great heel and so begin cheering him instead. Organically it should lead to Dom switching to a babyface role, and Triple H, for all his faults as a booker, does normally go with the flow in these situations. Much like with MJF in AEW, it's going to be difficult to take such a well-established genuine heel and turn them face without losing what made the fans love the wrestler in the first place. We'll see where they go with it - presumably Finn obliterating Dom at some point and pitting the two against each other. I just hope getting to that point doesn't take forever.
Mixed feelings on Randy Orton Vs Joe Hendry. Of course, it's very cool for Hendry to get onto that stage against one of the biggest legends in the business. I don't think TNA necessarily loses face by having their champion get beaten by a guy like Orton - it's just a shame they couldn't have given the match a bit longer. Three minutes is too close to 'squash' territory for my liking. If you're going to put your champion in there, you'd at least want him to have a good, competitive match, even if he takes the loss in the end. Still, it'll be a moment Joe Hendry will always remember, particularly with the fans knowing exactly who he was.
Logan Paul Vs AJ Styles, another one I couldn't have cared less about. Shit build, Logan Paul is a turd irrespective of his natural abilities in the ring, and AJ Styles deserves better considering he won't have many more WM matches. The whole thing, including Karrion Kross' involvement, just fell flat for me. Not that the match was bad, it just didn't mean anything.
Liv/Raquel Vs Tyra/Lynch was a decent enough tag match. Obviously cool to see Becky return, and the title change made for a crowd-pleasing moment (although they switched it back on Raw).
Stone Cold and the ATV incident... JHC. Absolutely reckless from WWE. Why was SCSA driving the thing that fast? He looked out of control from the start, and it was an accident waiting to happen. You could tell it threw Austin off and he just wanted to get out of there. I won't shed any tears if WWE gets sued.
Cena/Rhodes simply did not live up to the hype. The match was average and the ending was shit. Nobody gives a single shit about Travis Scott. No interference would have been better than what we got. Hell, since Stone Cold was there, why not have him come down and counter an appearance by The Rock? Speaking of, where was Dwayne? His absence was baffling considering he was the catalyst for the heel turn in the first place.
Personally I thought it was one of the worst WM main events, with the level of hype factored in, and the finish was awful. A real mood-killer to end night two.
So yeah, whilst night two had some genuinely great matches, I preferred night one. The main event of night two absolutely killed the whole thing for me.
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I think Austin was drunk which isn't going to help WWE's case if that woman decides to sue. Especially because there's footage of Austin backstage on the ATV having trouble driving straight. He was absolutely at fault for this fiasco but WWE should have never let him go out there. The best comment I saw all weekend was: "I, for one, can't believe Steve Austin would hit a woman... with his ATV." 
I don't know if it's true obviously, but I read that Jeff Hardy was considered for the spot against Orton. Personally, I would've enjoyed that more, but oh well. WWE really tried to downplay any of the negative fan reaction, but it was pretty unanimous that the event ended on a really sour note. It was super predictable, and if it hadn't been, that went out the fucking window when right before the main event, they announced that Cena was going to be on Pat McAfee's show the next morning. A month before, I didn't know how it was going to go. Then after that McAfee announcement and watching Triple H's press in the days leading up to the event, it was very, very clear Cena was winning.
I'm already tired of the fans who keep saying "the match was supposed to suck! Cena said he wants to ruin wrestling!" It's such a fucking cop out. No promoter, EVER, is going to tank the main event of their biggest show of the year on purpose. Period. Acting like you're in on this big grand story that the rest of us idiots "don't understand" is laughable. Just admit it: they didn't know what to do without The Rock, so they used Travis Scott. And it was awful. Cena has slowed down and his chemistry with Cody just wasn't there. Making excuses is lame. Just call it what it was, which was a shit match. And then move on.
I don't know if it's true obviously, but I read that Jeff Hardy was considered for the spot against Orton. Personally, I would've enjoyed that more, but oh well. WWE really tried to downplay any of the negative fan reaction, but it was pretty unanimous that the event ended on a really sour note. It was super predictable, and if it hadn't been, that went out the fucking window when right before the main event, they announced that Cena was going to be on Pat McAfee's show the next morning. A month before, I didn't know how it was going to go. Then after that McAfee announcement and watching Triple H's press in the days leading up to the event, it was very, very clear Cena was winning.
I'm already tired of the fans who keep saying "the match was supposed to suck! Cena said he wants to ruin wrestling!" It's such a fucking cop out. No promoter, EVER, is going to tank the main event of their biggest show of the year on purpose. Period. Acting like you're in on this big grand story that the rest of us idiots "don't understand" is laughable. Just admit it: they didn't know what to do without The Rock, so they used Travis Scott. And it was awful. Cena has slowed down and his chemistry with Cody just wasn't there. Making excuses is lame. Just call it what it was, which was a shit match. And then move on.
Yeah, I mean in some ways it's understandable. Cena hasn't been a full time guy in years. He's got ring rust and he's out of practice. That's before taking his age and general wear and tear into account. Very difficult to think he can just snap his fingers and put on a main event worthy of WM. In decades past he could have gotten away with it, but nowadays the standard is so high for match quality that it's very noticeable if a match doesn't reach a certain level. If he'd been able to really get back into his groove over a few months then I think he'd have done much better, but he's barely wrestled and still been flying out to movie commitments. It's little wonder he wasn't prepared to deliver.
Frankly, even if he was, the ending was sabotage regardless. We should have had the Elimination Chamber ending at WrestleMania. Rushing into it a month early was a mistake, if Travis Scott interfering was the best they subsequently had for the biggest show of the year.
Apparently Rock wanted Cody to turn heel rather than Cena. It was Triple H who suggested Cena instead. Does make you wonder if Rock sat at home sulking because his idea wasn't used. You'd like to think he'd be above such pettiness, but then you consider Black Adam ...
Frankly, even if he was, the ending was sabotage regardless. We should have had the Elimination Chamber ending at WrestleMania. Rushing into it a month early was a mistake, if Travis Scott interfering was the best they subsequently had for the biggest show of the year.
Apparently Rock wanted Cody to turn heel rather than Cena. It was Triple H who suggested Cena instead. Does make you wonder if Rock sat at home sulking because his idea wasn't used. You'd like to think he'd be above such pettiness, but then you consider Black Adam ...
Apparently there was an official WWE "Wrestlemania roast" where some talentless comedians, some wrestlers and Paul Heyman made various racist, sexist and generally "I'm an edgy 15 year old" level jokes. WTF. What is wrong with this company?
I downloaded the video (which is actually mostly just audio) of the entire roast and it was unbelievably pathetic. It wasn't funny in the slightest and was pretty damn offensive. WWE knows too because they're trying to remove it from the internet, which as we all know is like trying to remove pee from a swimming pool. It isn't going to happen. On this one, they know they fucked up because there is literally no positive PR from it whatsoever. It's pretty sad that I went from being this massive WWE fan for decades to now having the attitude: "good, I hope they do get bad PR." In the last several weeks, they have really shown what a shitty company they truly are. And really, it's Vince's fault. He had to be so vindictive to come back to sell off his company when he could've just let his family continue to run things. Yeah, maybe it wouldn't be any better, but TKO being part of it certainly makes it worse. When you think of what's wrong with the world, TKO and companies like them are right at the front of the "this is what's fucking wrong" list.
I just don't get what the point of the roast was. If it was just about the people in attendence and all had been agreed between the parties involved, then whatever. I'm sure some of the jokes would still have been tasteless and shitty, but at least it'd be targeted at people who had accepted being a part of it. The problem with WWE's "roast" was that people were being made fun of despite not being there (Charlotte, Finn, etc) or not even being in the company (Freddy Prinze Jr, Jinder). Even if, somehow, absolutely no recordings of the event had leaked, it would still be a dickhead thing to do. The company just has absolutely no class - but then, why would we expect them to have any? This is, after all, a company firmly aligned with the sociopathic right-wing fascists taking a wrecking ball to all forms of human decency in the US. Literally kidnapping and exiling children with cancer. Arresting judges who try to uphold the law in the face of Government corruption. Deporting US citizens without due process to a sadistic prison in a foreign country and refusing to fix mistakes even when they admit they were in error. If Triple H, Roman Reigns, Stephanie or anyone else in WWE comes out and praise that stuff, then I'll consider them in the same bracket as Linda, who works for that vile Government. Evil pieces of shit.
It's been quite a long time since I watched WWE in any kind of regular capacity. Literally around 6 or 7 years at this point. I'll sometimes dip back in during the Rumble - WrestleMania stretch, but I never feel compelled to keep watching afterwards. This time around I managed to watch two or three Raw episodes in the buildup to WM and even those weren't keeping my interest. Basically, I have no attachment at this point that I need to untether. Now that the Network is gone I don't even have that small monetery link, which I was only keeping active to watch historical WCW stuff anyway.
I watched AEW consistently from 2019 to 2022-ish, but lost interest when they began integrating ROH and bloated the roster. All Out 2022 (aka Brawl Out) was where I totally disconnected. Only watched a handful of the PPVs since then. The occasional Dynamite to see if the product is more to my liking, but not so far. It's a shame as I genuinely did enjoy Dynamite up until Brawl Out. Granted I had stopped watching Rampage some months beforehand.
I'm not going out of my way to watch a Japanese or Mexican promotion, and TNA don't do it for me either, so it's possible at this point I'm just a legacy fan who keeps up with the general goings on in the business but has no real interest in the product as entertainment. I'd like to think one day something will grab my interest again, but it could be a while. It's hard to imagine ever returning to WWE in a serious capacity as long as the current regime is in charge though.
It's been quite a long time since I watched WWE in any kind of regular capacity. Literally around 6 or 7 years at this point. I'll sometimes dip back in during the Rumble - WrestleMania stretch, but I never feel compelled to keep watching afterwards. This time around I managed to watch two or three Raw episodes in the buildup to WM and even those weren't keeping my interest. Basically, I have no attachment at this point that I need to untether. Now that the Network is gone I don't even have that small monetery link, which I was only keeping active to watch historical WCW stuff anyway.
I watched AEW consistently from 2019 to 2022-ish, but lost interest when they began integrating ROH and bloated the roster. All Out 2022 (aka Brawl Out) was where I totally disconnected. Only watched a handful of the PPVs since then. The occasional Dynamite to see if the product is more to my liking, but not so far. It's a shame as I genuinely did enjoy Dynamite up until Brawl Out. Granted I had stopped watching Rampage some months beforehand.
I'm not going out of my way to watch a Japanese or Mexican promotion, and TNA don't do it for me either, so it's possible at this point I'm just a legacy fan who keeps up with the general goings on in the business but has no real interest in the product as entertainment. I'd like to think one day something will grab my interest again, but it could be a while. It's hard to imagine ever returning to WWE in a serious capacity as long as the current regime is in charge though.
Yeah, I think 'legacy fan' sums me up pretty well at this point. Speaking of TNA, is there anywhere to watch the weeklies + PPV's in order? I read that there's a streaming service for it but it omits when it was on Spike apparently? I'd like to be able to watch it's glory years uninterrupted. I'm part of a wrestling private tracker, so I could go that route, but each year of weeklies is like 200GB. Also, which years would you recommend? Besides seeing some really early stuff (03-04), I missed out on a lot. I don't think I've ever even seen an Angle match in TNA. But it's also confusing because I remember when it was only weekly PPVs really early on, then I thought they got a TV deal and then they didn't have TV, so it's kind of confusing and finding a starting point seems difficult. And I certainly don't want to start and then miss a big chunk because whatever streaming service doesn't have a few years of TV or whatever.
TNA, imo, started getting good around 2005. As you're an old school WCW fan like me, you'd probably find the earlier years interesting, as there's a lot of WCW alumni plying their trade in TNA during that period, but pretty much all of them are a shadow of what they once were. You'd be watching it more to just laugh at the classic 'LOLTNA' stuff, of which there was plenty during 2002-2004. It's a fascinating time capsule, and there is some great wrestling in there, but are they great shows in general? No.
2005, TNA starts cooking. The PPVs in particular are a lot of fun. The weekly shows are still a bit hit and miss. 2006 - 2007 I would say is TNA at its best. I really enjoyed watching it back then. A ton of fantastic young talent, mixed in with just the right amount of veterans. I remember Christian, Angle, Tomko, Sting, LAX, AJ, Daniels, Joe, Monty Brown, Booker T, Abyss, Team Canada... almost everyone just going out there and killing it. Even the older guys like Nash and the Dudleys found ways to be entertaining, and they had Cornette and Zybszko as authority figures for a while as well. The booking could still be quite bizarre at times, but I'm okay with that. It's not like WCW's booking was consistency logical either. 2008 is still a strong year, but more focus starts to go onto the older stars. You get the rise of the Main Event Mafia later in the year (Angle, Sting, Nash, Steiner, Booker T) which dominates the main event scene in terms of storylines for some time. 2009 isn't bad either, although I felt like TNA was getting to a crossroads where they needed to decide whether they were going to keep coasting on the reputations of old stars, or begin elevating their own homegrown talents to the next level.
It all goes to shit from 2010 onwards. Hogan and Bischoff come in and whilst it's entertaining in a car crash kind of way, the show went downhill rapidly and TNA never really recovered. The younger stars mostly got buried in favour of Hogan's boys and pretty much anyone WWE was releasing at the time. They moved from six sides to four, which hurt the brand. Just generally lost what made them unique and became WWE-lite. For whatever reason I did keep watching (more out of habit than anything), and honestly, I do remember kind of liking the Aces & Eights storyline when it first started. TNA found a groove of sorts between 2012-2013, but the company was haemoraging money and production was falling off a cliff. Booking got really bad again around mid-2013 and once AJ left, so did I.
So, my advice would be 2006-2009 for sure, 2005 as well if you want to stretch it a bit further. Just watching the PPVs from 2005 would probably be fine though. The only show that's worth watching past that is the Jan 4, 2010 Impact - which was the first time they went head-to-head with WWE on Mondays. It's an unstructured, chaotic mess of a show that was a sign of bad things to come, but still fun to watch.
Archive.org has all of the TNA shows from 2005 - 2009:
2005 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2005.11.03
2006 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2006.11.16
2007 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2007.10.04
2008 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2008.03.27
2009 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2009.02.05
I don't think the PPVs will be on there, but you could probably find those on the tracker? Speaking of which, if you ever get an invite to throw out, give your boy a holla
2005, TNA starts cooking. The PPVs in particular are a lot of fun. The weekly shows are still a bit hit and miss. 2006 - 2007 I would say is TNA at its best. I really enjoyed watching it back then. A ton of fantastic young talent, mixed in with just the right amount of veterans. I remember Christian, Angle, Tomko, Sting, LAX, AJ, Daniels, Joe, Monty Brown, Booker T, Abyss, Team Canada... almost everyone just going out there and killing it. Even the older guys like Nash and the Dudleys found ways to be entertaining, and they had Cornette and Zybszko as authority figures for a while as well. The booking could still be quite bizarre at times, but I'm okay with that. It's not like WCW's booking was consistency logical either. 2008 is still a strong year, but more focus starts to go onto the older stars. You get the rise of the Main Event Mafia later in the year (Angle, Sting, Nash, Steiner, Booker T) which dominates the main event scene in terms of storylines for some time. 2009 isn't bad either, although I felt like TNA was getting to a crossroads where they needed to decide whether they were going to keep coasting on the reputations of old stars, or begin elevating their own homegrown talents to the next level.
It all goes to shit from 2010 onwards. Hogan and Bischoff come in and whilst it's entertaining in a car crash kind of way, the show went downhill rapidly and TNA never really recovered. The younger stars mostly got buried in favour of Hogan's boys and pretty much anyone WWE was releasing at the time. They moved from six sides to four, which hurt the brand. Just generally lost what made them unique and became WWE-lite. For whatever reason I did keep watching (more out of habit than anything), and honestly, I do remember kind of liking the Aces & Eights storyline when it first started. TNA found a groove of sorts between 2012-2013, but the company was haemoraging money and production was falling off a cliff. Booking got really bad again around mid-2013 and once AJ left, so did I.
So, my advice would be 2006-2009 for sure, 2005 as well if you want to stretch it a bit further. Just watching the PPVs from 2005 would probably be fine though. The only show that's worth watching past that is the Jan 4, 2010 Impact - which was the first time they went head-to-head with WWE on Mondays. It's an unstructured, chaotic mess of a show that was a sign of bad things to come, but still fun to watch.
Archive.org has all of the TNA shows from 2005 - 2009:
2005 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2005.11.03
2006 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2006.11.16
2007 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2007.10.04
2008 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2008.03.27
2009 -https://archive.org/details/tna-i-mpact-2009.02.05
I don't think the PPVs will be on there, but you could probably find those on the tracker? Speaking of which, if you ever get an invite to throw out, give your boy a holla
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