Let's talk wrasslin'

[The Grayfox]

We get invites a few times a year but they only last 2-3 days. It's really annoying actually. I get that it's supposed to be "exclusive" and all that, but I'm not sure why our invites expire after only a few days. Even if they gave out 1 invite a year per account, but it didn't expire, that would be preferable because so many people don't even realize they get the invites in the first place because they're gone so quickly.

Also, I didn't even know you could use archive.org for this shit lol. Awesome, thanks for that.

 

[DE4life]

Yeah archive.org has all the old Raw and Nitro episodes as well. I think they're just written backwards, so Nitro is "Ortin".

 

[The Grayfox]

I still have my Peacock account for Nitro thankfully. I'm still figuring out how I want to consume TNA though.

Next time I get an invite, I'll throw it your way. Going to have to be quick though.

 

[DE4life]

Muchos gracias. As long as you can get the TNA PPVs from the tracker you should be good alongside archive.org. It's possible there is another way to watch the PPVs but I haven't come across them in the wild, except when TNA's YouTube channel uploads a classic PPV - which they actually do somewhat frequently.

 

[DE4life]

I was at a work volunteer event yesterday and got talking to a few people who liked wrestling. A lot of negativity about both WWE and AEW (WWE over-commercialised and predictable, AEW too focused on match quality and has roster bloat). Everyone disappointed with Cena's heel turn, and WWE in general over the past year plus.

It's a shame because I could tell the guys were as passionate about the business as I was in terms of being a fan, but none of us had much faith in WWE or AEW delivering anything decent. We ended up talking mainly about how great WCW was in the 90s, and how TNA was pretty cool in the mid-2000s.

 

[The Grayfox]

Yeah, wrestling as a whole is real slog right now. At least U.S. based wrestling. The faith I had in HHH is pretty much gone. He's showing that he picked up a lot of bad habits from Vince McMahon, and the culture as a whole seems pretty fucked. A lot of MAGA shit going on. Some of that is probably TKO, but still. It's disheartening.

 

[DE4life]

I saw Cena's promo from Smackdown inverting the 2011 pipebomb. It's the best thing I've heard from him as a heel so far. Someone mentioned on Reddit it was the first time he didn't sound like a scooby doo villain, lmao.

Anyway, he went in pretty hard on Punk, but avoided the AEW stuff.

 

[The Grayfox]

I'm starting to wonder if that match will even happen (not that I care honestly, we know who's winning), due to the U.S./Iranian bullshit. Knowing WWE/TKO, they will push forward even if it means putting their talent in harm's way because, you know, money. But yes, I agree, it was probably the most worthwhile thing Cena has done during his entire heel run, which has largely been a flop. The thing is, Cena has more heel-like tendencies as a babyface who's pissed off anyway. His 'heel' persona is boring. If you look back during his main run, especially in promos with guys like Roman and Kevin Owens, he comes across as a heel with his fire. This 'heel run' can end any time and I think people will be happy to cheer for him for the last few months of his career.

 

[DE4life]

Looks like it will indeed be happening. I just saw a video of Punk grovelling and apologising to Saudi Arabia in front of a bunch of Saudi fans who had been booing him. Gross. At least we can say that he's now just a brand rather than somebody with genuine morals. It was kind of obvious when he went crawling back to the 'E, but yeah, expecting to see him walking around with a MAGA hat on any day now.

With Cena, the reality is that to the majority of the fans he was, for all intents and purposes, a heel from the mid-2000s to the mid-2010s. It was a weird meta-heel kind of thing, but he was only a babyface to Vince, children and women. To male teens and men, making up at least 50% of the demographic, he was the most hated guy on the roster and it wasn't even close.

Cena as a cookie-cutter heel is meh. The novelty has already worn off. Cena as a 'cool' heel is fine, but it'll just end up the same as Roman where the fans will now cheer for Cena as if he's a face. Crowd logic has been warped for a while now due to the massive disconnect between WWE and their fans over the last 20 years - it's gotten better since Vince got the boot, but those fractures are still there and to some degree the traditional face/heel dynamic is probably forever altered at this point.

Only exception at the moment is Cody. I don't know if it's because he's so corny that it loops around into being sort of cool. Obviously AEW fans didn't think so, lol, but WWE fans are very different in terms of what they like.

 

[The Grayfox]

Even as a Punk fan, it's damn near impossible to excuse the Saudi shit. He should've just stuck to his guns and not gone. The amount of hate he's getting right now is insane. People bringing up old tweets of him saying he'd never go, the video of him groveling, it's pretty bad. The only way they can spin this, and they won't do it, is have Punk beat Cena and then just play into the "I hate Saudi" thing. Understandable why they won't. The Saudi government would probably take Punk and hold him hostage lol.

I didn't watch Smackdown and I'm not going to watch Night of Champions either. I think I'll probably stick to the big 4 if anything. I still enjoy watching Rumbles, I enjoy War Games at Survivor Series, the spectacle of Mania. Summerslam I could take or leave I guess.

 

[DE4life]

The problem with Punk is that he's already a hugely divisive figure, just from his past behaviour and general outspoken demeanour. The casuals are still into him, but the kind of people who frequent reddit and other social media, not so much. WWE hardcores never totally forgave him for trashing the company when he left. AEW hardcores never forgave him for the way he left that company. Punk fans would staunchly defend him because they felt aligned with his generally progressive and rebellious attitude - even when he came back to WWE, it was largely excused with "it's a different company now that Vince is gone" or "a guy's gotta work" - as if Triple H doesn't have plenty of Vince's shitty habits and Punk hasn't already made more money than the majority of people will make in ten lifetimes.

However even Punk supporters are struggling to defend him for this. It makes them look stupid for belieiving in him as a person, not just a character. You either have to accept it was always a character and a brand designed to make money - or that the guy has changed as he's gotten older and simply sold out. Either way, increasingly difficult to defend him, so now Punk has WWE hardcores, AEW hardcores and a lot of his sizable former fans shitting on him collectively. It's brutal but ultimately a rod he's made for his own back. You can't loudly proclaim yourself as being 'the voice of the voiceless' and some kind of anti-establishment rebel for decades and then not expect massive backlash when it turns out at best it was just a phase, and at worst it was a straight up sham to get people to buy into a fake character (granted that is kinda what wrestling is, lol, but still... Punk's popularity and success is as much due to people appreciating Phil Brooks the man as CM Punk the wrestling character).

I imagine some in AEW are looking over with a wry smile at what's happening. Punk didn't need the money, so I don't think it was ever about that. He wanted and got his WM main event (albeit not for a title) but seemingly at the price of having his identity eviscerated both nationally and internationally. Cena's promo cut deep because it wasn't just a heel talking shit - he made a lot of totally valid and unarguable points about Punk being a total hypocrite, and that was without mentioning AEW at all. Then Punk has to grovel and apologise to Saudi Arabia - which then gets broadcast on Smackdown for the crowd. Feels like that Vince-era pettiness returning. Triple H playing the long-game and Punk paying the price for selling out his morals.

Feels like the only route to go down with Punk is to lean into the sellout thing and have a Corporate Punk type character. That actually could be quite fun - particularly if he teamed up with Cena (think the two man power trip from back in the day with Austin and Triple H). I don't think it'll go that way, but if you're going to humiliate Punk on TV, you might as well adapt his character to a role that benefits from it.

 

[The Grayfox]

To a degree, I understand it. He's one of the top guys in WWE and if he wants to remain in that spot, he probably can't say he won't go. But at the same time, there's nothing less punk rock than selling out. He didn't go under protest, or so it seems. The groveling and apologizing is just too much. You can't really spin it. There's no way to do it. He just looks like a sell out, plain and simple. Totally agree about the pettiness too. They didn't have to air his apology. It's almost like they did it to embarrass Punk and make him look like an idiot. Agree on the character too. The only thing left to do is lean into it. But with him in a seemingly never-ending feud with Rollins, who is now a heel, I'm not sure how they do that. I mean, Punk's wrestling career is clearly winding down. He's got maybe 1-2 years left, if even that. You can watch one of his matches and just tell he's almost out of gas.

 

[DE4life]

I caught SNME since it was free to watch on YouTube. Thought it was by and large incredibly boring. The only thing I felt was done well was the hype for Goldberg's return. Sting's WM match aside, Triple H seems to show far more respect to WCW than Vince ever did. It was a cool touch to have Doug Dillinger there, and also Ernest Miller as part of Goldberg's entourage. The match itself was quite okay for a Goldberg bout. He went out on his back, as it should be. No shame in his performance and it was a decent way to go out.

Seth Rollins' knee-injury recurrance is obviously a huge blow to the company and their creative plans. Seth is going to have no choice but to change the way he wrestles at this point, as his knees are clearly shot. In the meantime whatever angle they had for the MITB briefcase is presumably down the drain. Still, sometimes forced pivots make for more interesting stories than the original plans - especially in the current version of WWE. Sucks for Seth though - hope he recovers quickly and finds a way to keep going without further hurting himself.

I see AEW All In was 6 hours, lol. How long before they start copying WWE and doing 2 day PPVs, I wonder? I didn't and won't watch the show, but I saw Brian Zane's review of it. Seems like not much has changed. The usual main event gorefest, which I'm honestly surprised people aren't tired of by now. Every time I see an AEW review I swear the main event is just an ECW-style garbage match. Not saying they aren't good garbage matches, but still.

Looks like Adam Cole has some kind of serious issue. A big shame for him, he's had a shit few years. Personally I've never been that into him, but I still objectively appreciate that he is talented and seems like a good guy overall. I hope it isn't as bad as it seems and he is able to come back. It was a pretty ominous segment though.

 

[The Grayfox]

Word is that Rollins isn't actually injured and this is a swerve so that he can do a 'surprise' return and cash in his briefcase in the near future. It kind of got fucked because a few days before SNME, I forget who now, but somebody reported that they were told that an injury angle would be taking place involving Seth Rollins but didn't know exactly why. Now all the usual sources are corroborating that saying that it is for a cash-in storyline. I'm guessing Punk is going to defeat Gunther at Summerslam and then Rollins will cash in to keep their feud going? I guess they may pivot now due to it leaking out.

A shame about Adam Cole. I read a report that said he was prepared to go out and announce his retirement before he was talked down from doing that. I'm assuming this is a Bryan Danielson situation where his concussions and other head injuries are compounding and causing serious issues. I think he actually benefited from the WWE style. Since he's been in AEW, he's been injured multiple times. You can find video of where this one supposedly happened during his match with Kyle Fletcher on Collision. If you slow down the video, you can clearly see that Fletcher wasn't watching where he was throwing his clothesline and he nailed Cole in the side of the neck/chin. I saw people saying "I hope nobody blames Kyle Fletcher for this, it was a routine clothesline." Yeah, uh, a routine clothesline should hit an opponent in the chest, not the neck. I mean, I have nothing against the guy, but it was clearly Fletcher's fault.

Lot of Goldberg controversary now. He's such an ungrateful douche bag. Now he's bitching that his send-off wasn't good enough and he's pissed about it. It's like, dude, fuck you. Shawn Michaels went out on Raw and said goodbye with no fanfare. HHH laid his boots in the ring and that was it. Arn Anderson, Steamboat, all these guys who never got a send-off to begin with and you're going to bitch and moan when you got this big entrance with all your buddies, a main event against a top guy and then a speech? What a twat. The guy has a seriously overinflated ego. He thinks he's so much more special than he actually is.

 

[DE4life]

For Seth's sake hopefully it is a work. If it gets him some time off to rest up before cashing in then fair enough.

Yeah Goldberg is coming across as a complete dickhead tbh. It was a perfectly fine send off. They showed all his WCW highlights, mythologised him throughout the show and Gunther enacted a minor miracle in getting a half decent match out of Goldberg at his age. What did he want, to beat Gunther and give the fans another part-time veteran title run? Does he really think he deserves that? It was bullshit in 2020 when he destroyed all of the Fiend's momentum and even though it wouldn't be as bad for Gunther, it would still have been bullshit. The guy is just entitled to an insane level.

He had two chances to retire with a big run in 2017 or 2020. 2017 would have been perfect. 2020 less so because of the aforementioned irreparable harm done to the Fiend character and COVID, but still. His time has passed and he needs to accept that. He was never even an average worker, and simply lucked into a right place right time scenario. Fact is he was largely considered a bit of a joke after his failed WWE run in the 2000s - a flash in the pan who was all style and no substance. Arguably that's still true, but WWE giving him the additional run in 2016 essentially legitimised his career. He should be thankful for anything that came afterwards, rather than having this weird chip on his shoulder like he's somehow been wronged.