Hi everyone. On your behalf, I welcome myself to the forum 
I'm actually a little excited to have found this forum - a quick thumbing through the "currently listening" thread, though not really my thing, confirmed I was indeed in the right place
Anyway, I was looking around and was a little disappointed not being able to find any real attempts at interpreting, let alone debating, Spirals lyrics. So, unless I missed something, here I am starting the first thread with the intention of discussing the lyrics in depth.
I'll start it with my understanding of the lyrics to Cloud Constructor:
Life as it seemed to the circling man
As my thought patterns progress I find myself getting to the same conclusions and thoughts I had in the past, though from a "higher" level of understanding and awareness. This is a concept known to some as a "strange loop", or a spiral. It's cyclical - hence the circling man (who from now on shall be named Bob, for the sake of convenience).
In addition, my understanding of the 3rd line also might apply here.
As he gazed into discarded land
The discarded land = the realization, or concept, expressed in the next line of the lyrics, of nihilism. It has been discarded by mankind - veiled by clouds of unknowing constructed for self preservation purposes - to avoid what at the end of the song we see causes a feeling of emptiness. I agree that most people cannot contend with this. Mankind as a whole is generally in denial
Was a ride on a carousel of faith
This I see as nihilism rephrased. Our lives exist as such within the boundaries and rules of a certain logical axiomatic system. As humans we cannot escape this system and see beyond it since our very definition of "I" exists only with the system. If you break any idea into small enough pieces you will always find yourself up against a wall of axioms (basic logic?). Accepting them = faith, in a way. Since you cannot escape them, we return to the circle concept - the carousel. Whatever you do, you're stuck in a loop. Of course, this reasoning as well is based on this logic, so it's really the ultimate super paradoxical mother f*cking loop
I believe this is the meaning here.
(for more on this, you're welcome to read what I wrote here: http://slight-shift.deviantart.com/art/Math-is-in-the-detail-68108783)
Then he flew away
Bob decides to venture into the discarded land.
He traveled far through his worn out mind
Through sorrow and pain, what had he gained?
Still his dreams they could never take away
After confronting the matters the land he's decided to explore is all about, Bob reflects on it. These aren't easy concepts to tackle, and they force, to the extent of his abilities, to give up many convenient idea's he's been surrounded by and brought up to believe in all his life.
Life SEEMED to him like a ride on a carousel of faith, but he still has hope to find a solution. This hope = his dreams. (maybe...) Not sure who "they" are...
In general, I'm a little confused with these lines.
So he flew into the sun again
Bob decides to meet these problems head on. Flying into the sun can be a bad idea - you get burnt.
Emptiness struck as he realized
There's no answer to "who am I? what am I?"
Like I said, you fly into the sun - you get burnt. This is Bob's realization of nihilism. I don't think there's any need to elaborate.
He then saw why men must construct for themselves
A cloud of Unknowing
This emptiness Bob is stricken by as nihilism becomes inescapable is what mankind is trying to avoid by constructing clouds of unknowing - discarding the land.
OK - as I was writing my understanding I realized I might actually be slightly off from the original intension of the lyrics - the first 4 lines might discuss actual obviously silly faith Bob realizes the world revolves around (religion, superstition, etc.), he then ventures into the unknown, artificial cloud veiled land of exploring and questioning these faiths. The next 4 lines, in this case, would be his first encounter with the problem that finally strikes him in the last 4 lines with emptiness - nihilism.
I might also very well be, of course, TOTALLY off target here altogether I mean, there are a few phrases I felt I was kinda forcing to fit, and some words I just completely ignored because they don't seem to fit my interpretation well ("again", "they", "what had he gained", etc.).
So, what do you guys think? What is your understanding of this song?
Also, I still can't figure out what "God hides within the machines" means, certainly not in the context of my interpretation... any ideas?
I thought it might have something to do with Deus Ex Machina, but I couldn't develop that concept into something that made enough sense. Maybe that there is no Deus Ex Machina solution, thus god remains hidden within the machines?
Oh yea, finally, I'd like to take the opportunity to say that for the first time in my life I've experienced the joy and intellectual thrill of reading and analyzing poetry thanks to Spirals words - and I'm really glad to have discovered this. I found myself reading to words to Excessit, writing notes down, cross referencing, looking up words and phrases in Latin, wiki searching for philosophical concepts, etc. etc.
This is great... THANK YOU SPIRAL ARCHITECT!
Damn, it's 5:15am here and I gotta get up for work in 3:45 hours.
Night everyone.
Night Bob.
I'm actually a little excited to have found this forum - a quick thumbing through the "currently listening" thread, though not really my thing, confirmed I was indeed in the right place
Anyway, I was looking around and was a little disappointed not being able to find any real attempts at interpreting, let alone debating, Spirals lyrics. So, unless I missed something, here I am starting the first thread with the intention of discussing the lyrics in depth.
I'll start it with my understanding of the lyrics to Cloud Constructor:
Life as it seemed to the circling man
As my thought patterns progress I find myself getting to the same conclusions and thoughts I had in the past, though from a "higher" level of understanding and awareness. This is a concept known to some as a "strange loop", or a spiral. It's cyclical - hence the circling man (who from now on shall be named Bob, for the sake of convenience).
In addition, my understanding of the 3rd line also might apply here.
As he gazed into discarded land
The discarded land = the realization, or concept, expressed in the next line of the lyrics, of nihilism. It has been discarded by mankind - veiled by clouds of unknowing constructed for self preservation purposes - to avoid what at the end of the song we see causes a feeling of emptiness. I agree that most people cannot contend with this. Mankind as a whole is generally in denial
Was a ride on a carousel of faith
This I see as nihilism rephrased. Our lives exist as such within the boundaries and rules of a certain logical axiomatic system. As humans we cannot escape this system and see beyond it since our very definition of "I" exists only with the system. If you break any idea into small enough pieces you will always find yourself up against a wall of axioms (basic logic?). Accepting them = faith, in a way. Since you cannot escape them, we return to the circle concept - the carousel. Whatever you do, you're stuck in a loop. Of course, this reasoning as well is based on this logic, so it's really the ultimate super paradoxical mother f*cking loop
I believe this is the meaning here.
(for more on this, you're welcome to read what I wrote here: http://slight-shift.deviantart.com/art/Math-is-in-the-detail-68108783)
Then he flew away
Bob decides to venture into the discarded land.
He traveled far through his worn out mind
Through sorrow and pain, what had he gained?
Still his dreams they could never take away
After confronting the matters the land he's decided to explore is all about, Bob reflects on it. These aren't easy concepts to tackle, and they force, to the extent of his abilities, to give up many convenient idea's he's been surrounded by and brought up to believe in all his life.
Life SEEMED to him like a ride on a carousel of faith, but he still has hope to find a solution. This hope = his dreams. (maybe...) Not sure who "they" are...
In general, I'm a little confused with these lines.
So he flew into the sun again
Bob decides to meet these problems head on. Flying into the sun can be a bad idea - you get burnt.
Emptiness struck as he realized
There's no answer to "who am I? what am I?"
Like I said, you fly into the sun - you get burnt. This is Bob's realization of nihilism. I don't think there's any need to elaborate.
He then saw why men must construct for themselves
A cloud of Unknowing
This emptiness Bob is stricken by as nihilism becomes inescapable is what mankind is trying to avoid by constructing clouds of unknowing - discarding the land.
OK - as I was writing my understanding I realized I might actually be slightly off from the original intension of the lyrics - the first 4 lines might discuss actual obviously silly faith Bob realizes the world revolves around (religion, superstition, etc.), he then ventures into the unknown, artificial cloud veiled land of exploring and questioning these faiths. The next 4 lines, in this case, would be his first encounter with the problem that finally strikes him in the last 4 lines with emptiness - nihilism.
I might also very well be, of course, TOTALLY off target here altogether
I mean, there are a few phrases I felt I was kinda forcing to fit, and some words I just completely ignored because they don't seem to fit my interpretation well ("again", "they", "what had he gained", etc.).So, what do you guys think? What is your understanding of this song?
Also, I still can't figure out what "God hides within the machines" means, certainly not in the context of my interpretation... any ideas?
I thought it might have something to do with Deus Ex Machina, but I couldn't develop that concept into something that made enough sense. Maybe that there is no Deus Ex Machina solution, thus god remains hidden within the machines?
Oh yea, finally, I'd like to take the opportunity to say that for the first time in my life I've experienced the joy and intellectual thrill of reading and analyzing poetry thanks to Spirals words - and I'm really glad to have discovered this. I found myself reading to words to Excessit, writing notes down, cross referencing, looking up words and phrases in Latin, wiki searching for philosophical concepts, etc. etc.
This is great... THANK YOU SPIRAL ARCHITECT!
Damn, it's 5:15am here and I gotta get up for work in 3:45 hours.
Night everyone.
Night Bob.
