Manticora, Circus Maximus, Circle II Circle- tour '07/'08

[darkblade]

they have only announced 3 or four U.S. dates so far, but i think it sounds hot. if they come a bit closer to PA i'm all in. i don't know any of the bnads TOO well, but i know maticora's black circus part II very well, Circus Maximus' Isolate well, and i love Zack Stevens work in savatage. (i must admit that i don't listen to CIIC even though i own their first two albums.

what are your thoughts on the tour? anyone going?

 

[Burnout]

they have only announced 3 or four U.S. dates so far, but i think it sounds hot. if they come a bit closer to PA i'm all in. i don't know any of the bnads TOO well, but i know maticora's black circus part II very well, Circus Maximus' Isolate well, and i love Zack Stevens work in savatage. (i must admit that i don't listen to CIIC even though i own their first two albums.

what are your thoughts on the tour? anyone going?

I'd be there if there were going to be west coast dates.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

Who is the headliner?

 

[razoredge]

Sounds great to me. Hopefully a NE appearence.

 

[rockyracoon]

My thoughts are that I will most definitely be attending this show as long as there's something remotely close to Chicago. Also, it was pointed out on the PP forum that this tour will not have any further Southern US dates, or any West Coast dates. I know there's only 3 dates announced so far, but just didn't want anyone to get their hopes up.


And Clarence, Circle II Circle is the headliner.

 

[Beelzebub]

Found on the Manticora website:

Friday - 29/02 - Atlanta (GA) USA / Sidelines Rock Live
with Circle II Circle and Circus Maximus

Saturday - 01/03 - Springfield (VA) USA / Jaxx
with Circle II Circle and Circus Maximus

Friday - 14/03 - HOUSTON (TX) USA / F.B.I. Rock Club #1
with Circle II Circle and Circus Maximus

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

My thoughts are that I will most definitely be attending this show as long as there's something remotely close to Chicago.

Dude I hope they come to Chicago! It's about time Circus Maximus did some non-PP US shows!

 

[Meedleyx10]

I'd love to see more dates announced. They'd be a perfect bill for Station 4 here in downtown St. paul. I guess it doesn't hurt to dream...

 

[DoomsdayZach]

So looks like Circle II Circle bailed on the tour:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=86063

I'm not a huge fan of either band, but that's neither here nor there. I know that a lot of Intromental Managed bands have forums here on UM and Glen H (progpower fest promoter) is one of the guys in the US office, and I understand that maybe some of them will read this. Well, that's fine.

I've heard nothing very good about this management company to be completely honest. Looking at their site, they have a ton of bands that they manage (22 to be exact) and their staff consists of a grand total of 8 people. Now, when you think about it, that's an average of nearly 3 bands per person. I don't know about the rest of the guys, but last I heard Glen was a surgeon or something as his day job with Progpower being a labor of love. I'm making the assumption that joining the Intromental team has not changed his working schedule much.

The point is, it would seem as though most of the people do not have the time to devote to managing 3 bands. Furthermore (as many of the comments in the b-mouth article point out) there is little market for these bands here. Now I understand that i'm in the minority on this forum in my dislike of these bands, but these bands still have a very small fanbase. Look at the Green Carnation tour a few years back. It was a disaster and caused the band to get to a point where they will not tour anymore.

I really think this is a horrible mistake to keep this tour going when the headliner (and not a very strong one to begin with at that) drops off and they're relying on the opening acts to make this thing happen. That's financial suicide, and unfortunately these bands will more than likely suffer. It's an unfortunate thing, because no band should be put in this place by their management.

The point of this rant isn't to bash any bands... i sincerely hope this tour works out, but this seems like a very fucking poor choice on management's end. Who the hell are they going to add to bring a bigger draw? Pyramaze? They need to stop being greedy and look outside their management and cooperate with another company to get a bigger name to headline. Sure Intromental won't get all the profits, but it'll ensure a better situation for everyone involved.

My 2 cents.

 

[Phanto]

I dunno who the fuck circle II circle are but I agree with Zach, it'd fucking suck to force them into a position where they'd have to play infront of a crowd of 50 people or something. No band wants to do that no matter how much they thank the few who shows up afterwards.

Edit: Actually I dunno who the fuck Manticora are either. So I actually just feel bad for the danes in Maximus.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Circle II Circle is Zachary Steven's band. Zachary Stevens is/was the frontman of Savatage when Jon Oliva decided he didn't want to sing, which happened sporadically throughout their later career. With Savatage now on hiatus, the various members did their solo projects. Oliva's is great and sounds a lot like a continuation of Savatage, while Zach's... just falls flat. It's a shame cause I love him in Savatage.

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

they have only announced 3 or four U.S. dates so far, but i think it sounds hot. if they come a bit closer to PA i'm all in. i don't know any of the bnads TOO well, but i know maticora's black circus part II very well, Circus Maximus' Isolate well, and i love Zack Stevens work in savatage. (i must admit that i don't listen to CIIC even though i own their first two albums.

what are your thoughts on the tour? anyone going?

You're from PA? Whereabouts?

/offtopic

 

[Beelzebub]

You're from PA? Whereabouts?

/offtopic

Stop flirting.

Anyways, really sucks to hear about Circle II Circle bailing. I really like Manticora and Circus Maximus. I definitely would be one of the 50 people in the crowd if this thing does happen.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

Circle II Circle is Zachary Steven's band. Zachary Stevens is/was the frontman of Savatage when Jon Oliva decided he didn't want to sing, which happened sporadically throughout their later career. With Savatage now on hiatus, the various members did their solo projects. Oliva's is great and sounds a lot like a continuation of Savatage, while Zach's... just falls flat. It's a shame cause I love him in Savatage.

Edge of Thorns is the only Zak era song i like. And only because it's so fucking cheesy.

I HAVE SEEN YOU ON THE EEEEDDGGEEE OFFFFF DAAAAAWWWN
FELT YOU HERE BEFORE YOOOUUUUU WEEERRREEE BOOOOOOORRRN
BALANCED YOUR DREAMS UPON THE EEEEDDGGGGEEE OFFFF THOOOOOOOORNNNSSS
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BUT I DON'T THINK ABOUT YOU AAANYYYYMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

Stop flirting.

I'm not flirting, I promise... I assumed someone with the name "darkblade" was a dude anyway.

 

[razoredge]

This type of metal has always had a promotional problem from my view point. So many unheard of bands, bands people might like if they actually heard of them and had some fimiliarity with their music.

Heres part of a Jon Oliva interview that I found alarming, but it shows some reality of what bands not in the mainstream are up against, with touring and the "industry". Here's the source http://www.metal-temple.com/interview.asp?id=324, this was from 06/11/09. I start in the middle of interview but he's refering to Trans Siberian vrs Savatage, just so no ones confused at first.

"Savatage never sold a lot of records. We have a core audience that was maybe worldwide 250,000 people but it was never enough record sales from Savatage to define a living for anyone in the band. Everybody except for me all worked regular jobs when they weren’t playing with Savatage. Trust me, no one’s working regular jobs anymore.

Of course we did it! Because we weren’t making any money. We loved the band, we wanted to play, we wanted to keep the band together. That’s why we did it. We just got frustrated when we did the "Dead Winter Dead" record, when we knew we had a No. 1 song on that record and no radio station in the world would play it because it was Savatage!

And the next year when we released the same song - called the Trans-Siberian Orchestra - it became No. 1 in America! And it sold millions and millions of records which is the ultimate kick in the ass because it’s a Savatage song! It was just that people had a problem with Savatage; the business people. It was like we couldn’t get any radio play, we couldn’t get any MTV play, we couldn’t get on any tours, we couldn’t do anything! All we could do was put our own tours out and lose money but go out and play. And that’s what we did - after Criss died - that was it man, everything we did from that point on cost us money.

We never made a dime. And we kept it together for as long as we could until that whole thing happened with Trans-Siberian Orchestra taking off. We were like "wow, we know it’s Savatage, all the guys know it’s Savatage but we don’t call it Savatage because it’s the Trans-Siberian Orchestra" That’s what we had to do to get our music listened to by the masses. And it worked! Unfortunately at the cost of Savatage but what was I supposed to do? I’m not 25 years old anymore. I have a family to take care of and stuff. Savatage owes me personally over 1,000,000 dollars and I will never see that money.

Really???

That’s money that I paid out of my pocked since 1985 and I’ve invested into Savatage for tours, videos, over budget records, tour buses... They owe me over 1,000,000 dollars. I know if somebody owed you 1,000,000 dollars you’d be banging on his door going "hey mother fucker, where’s my money?" [Laughs] And if people don’t understand that shit then that really bothers me! They expect me to just eat the million and just keep playing so they can go see a Savatage show... Guys, I have to live too!

So regardless of anything else concerning Circle II Circle or why they pulled, Zach Stevens is well aware of the financial burdons of paying to play a tour. Its a sad situtation when music becomes an expensive hobby.

 

[razoredge]

Edge of Thorns is the only Zak era song i like. And only because it's so fucking cheesy.

I HAVE SEEN YOU ON THE EEEEDDGGEEE OFFFFF DAAAAAWWWN
FELT YOU HERE BEFORE YOOOUUUUU WEEERRREEE BOOOOOOORRRN
BALANCED YOUR DREAMS UPON THE EEEEDDGGGGEEE OFFFF THOOOOOOOORNNNSSS
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BUT I DON'T THINK ABOUT YOU AAANYYYYMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE

You idjut Theres more to the lyrics than that and the expression that you make jest of is a very powerful delivery. That whole album kicks ass. Seriously I dont see where any of its cheesy. Damian and especially Conversation Piece are very "special" songs to me.... but its my kind of metal....

 

[DoomsdayZach]

You guys are completely missing the point (except Phanto). It's not an issue of CIIC dropping off per se. If you read the article, they just want to postpone CIIC's tour until after the album is released and promoted a bit. It's not about knowing the expense of touring in regards to CIIC at all.

The point is that the management is completely fucking over Circus Maximus by throwing them (a band with smaller fanbases than even CIIC) on a full tour of the US, which is very fucking expensive, without a real proper headliner. Now I'm sure their fans are happy with this turn of events because it means they get to play longer, but those shows are going to be small turnout, and they will lose money. This decision falls on the management, which is the point: Intromental Management fucked up. This tour will do very poorly without a larger headliner, which is unfortunate. Hopefully everyone will see these bands on this tour because the likelyhood of them being able to tour here again in the near future is very small.

If you need another example other than Green Carnation, look at Therion. Another band that is rather big by comparison but won't be coming back to the US.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

You idjut Theres more to the lyrics than that and the expression that you make jest of is a very powerful delivery. That whole album kicks ass. Seriously I dont see where any of its cheesy. Damian and especially Conversation Piece are very "special" songs to me.... but its my kind of metal....

I like that song. I don't like the rest of the album. I think that song is sweet though, despite being really cheesy.

 

[razoredge]

^ I know that Zach, I wasnt refering to a particular band but used an example as to show the problems involved with small cult following bands. IOW non mainstream music in general. The problem exists within the music industry, the all mighty dollar. Pretty much what your saying only a bigger or "nother" side of the picture.

Who would you recommend for an opening act ?