Black_paragon said:
haha.
anyway, you kind of lost your credibility there when you wrote that Drapery Falls feels cut and paste. DF couldn't have smoother transitions if it tried.
what motW songs have you listened to anyway?
Maudlin of the Well dissing Opeth
- Thread starter Iblys
- Start date
haha.
anyway, you kind of lost your credibility there when you wrote that Drapery Falls feels cut and paste. DF couldn't have smoother transitions if it tried.
what motW songs have you listened to anyway?
KielbasaSausage
YARRRRG
Immortal Death said:
i'm gonna set this straight. i like both Opeth and motW. but i understand where toby was going. i always object to that cut and paste criticsm because it's bullshit. but still i don't see that his remark came out of nowhere. in the past, by people on this board especially, his band had been constantly compared to Opeth. this is the basic background. and now that his band is actually on UM - which is Opeth land- i'm not surprised Opeth should somehow enter into a conversation.
what's so hateful about that?
not much. and even if it were. why the fuck care? it's not like toby went in and said he's going to rape Ackerfeldt's mother and rob him of his money.
IanDork107 said:
Ian,
you have lodged this criticism many a time.
time to address it.
what is your definitino of "cohesive"? i never get a single hint, nuance, whiff, or connotation of "incohesive" when i listen to motW. so yours is a unique remark.
KielbasaSausage
YARRRRG
Xtokalon said:i'm not surprised Opeth should somehow enter into a conversation.
what's so hateful about that?
not much. and even if it were. why the fuck care? it's not like toby went in and said he's going to rape Ackerfeldt's mother and rob him of his money.
It seems that he thinks its a bad thing for someone to cut and paste (ALL BANDS DO THIS UNLESS THEY PLAY THE SAME NOTE, SCALE, AND CHORDS OVER AND OVER AND OVER)
KielbasaSausage said:
that would be grounds for a good fucking aesthetics discussion on music. not the childish crap that's been going on this thread. not that i care either way.
ChromeLife
askew
KielbasaSausage said:
aside from all the motw/opeth buggery... there is a way to do this me thinks... it involves the music evolving during the course of the song, with melodic and harmonic patterns shifting in a more gracefull way than riff based music presents them (btw-i love riff based music.. just sayin')... I think a very good example of this is Gleam in Ranks by MotW (just as an example... me thinks there is prolly some My Bloody Valentine that does similar type things)
KielbasaSausage
YARRRRG
Ya sorry, there are bands that make music that is not "cut and paste," but I like to refer to these bands as math music; following guidelines and rules.
Bach of course is the first (?) to create music like this; he wrote much of his music without even checking on the piano if it sounded right. It all followed certain rules that eliminated randomness in a song, but it was great music nonetheless. The only problem with it though is that after listening to and studying a few of his songs, you would be able to predict possibilities of what notes and harmonies were to come next in his other works.
The Baroque period was greatly mocked by the musicians of the Romantic period, however, because they said that this type of music, because of its restrictions, attacks many possibilities of conveying emotion through music.
And now I dont know where I am going with this...
But I guess im trying to say that if you restrict your music to ONLY "go with the flow" or to not add something in your music because others say it feels out of place, then you are definately doing something wrong.
I know that Mozart used a lot of cut and paste in his music; songs taking completely different directions at points. Of course, he used this method to write music, as well as he did improvisation. I feel that you shouldn't restrict yourself to the latter.
Bach of course is the first (?) to create music like this; he wrote much of his music without even checking on the piano if it sounded right. It all followed certain rules that eliminated randomness in a song, but it was great music nonetheless. The only problem with it though is that after listening to and studying a few of his songs, you would be able to predict possibilities of what notes and harmonies were to come next in his other works.
The Baroque period was greatly mocked by the musicians of the Romantic period, however, because they said that this type of music, because of its restrictions, attacks many possibilities of conveying emotion through music.
And now I dont know where I am going with this...
But I guess im trying to say that if you restrict your music to ONLY "go with the flow" or to not add something in your music because others say it feels out of place, then you are definately doing something wrong.
I know that Mozart used a lot of cut and paste in his music; songs taking completely different directions at points. Of course, he used this method to write music, as well as he did improvisation. I feel that you shouldn't restrict yourself to the latter.
Static
Manically depressed robot
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
KielbasaSausage
YARRRRG
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
haha sorry, I didn't think that anybody would take my opinion as seriously as to think that it was a generally accepted fact or something... didn't wanna get you into an arguement of my own making.
so EVERYBODY. revert to the post that kielbasa quoted and add 'IMO' at the end of it.
so EVERYBODY. revert to the post that kielbasa quoted and add 'IMO' at the end of it.
Static
Manically depressed robot
YaYo
whendaydescends.com
- May 6, 2001
- 4,458
- 23
- 38
This thread was certainly interesting...
God i hate all the "What? You dissed my band? Well YOUR BAND SUCKS!" posts. That's such a childish response and it's not about Opeth vs motW anyway. Like "we put some maudlin of the well on. a roomful of people fell about laughing"... that's just ridiculously childish... and pointless. So someone didnt like motW on first listen.. does that prove anything?
At the very most the statement Toby made can be seen as a comparison of the styles of the two bands, where Opeth are simply the most obvious example. Not a comparison of bands in themselves, its the song writing style which is being compared (and only a tiny aspect too). Obviously it's something Toby feels strongly about too. Fair enough, he likes a different approach to music, and expresses it. Sounds normal to me. Mikael says shit about musicians and bands, including general statements about disliking the metal scene and similar as well. Nothing wrong with it, it's an opinion. As long as it doesnt get to the point of attacking the people behind the music, or attacks that arent even relevant or backed up with anything.
Opeth were my favourite band for a few years, and still are right up there. But motW quickly overtook them as soon as i heard it. Why? Because their approach to music is what i was looking for, i'd turned against some aspects of Opeth's music. For apparently similar sounding bands at first, there are some pretty huge fundamental differences, in the way they write riffs, songs, albums, lyrics.... production, artwork, instruments, song structure, scales/chords, etc etc.. about the only similarity is that they go from clean to distortion. It is possible to listen to the two bands and get a relatively similar experience from both, but it's achieved in entirely different ways and both have so much more to offer than the small areas they do 'sound the same'.
Two very different bands with different approaches, each far better than the other in the areas they are trying to be better at. Logical really. I like aspects of both bands.
I mean, it's like you people think Opeth are perfect or something. They aren't, nobody is. They have their strengths, they have their weaknesses. If the things you look for in music match their strengths, then congratulations you've found the perfect band for you. Why is it so scary to hear something negative about Opeth that people get this offensive, even though it was such a tiny comment?
And if a musician can't even say something about an approach they don't like in music without getting their music attacked so much, then that's pretty bad. There was really nothing much to the comment.
God i hate all the "What? You dissed my band? Well YOUR BAND SUCKS!" posts. That's such a childish response and it's not about Opeth vs motW anyway. Like "we put some maudlin of the well on. a roomful of people fell about laughing"... that's just ridiculously childish... and pointless. So someone didnt like motW on first listen.. does that prove anything?
At the very most the statement Toby made can be seen as a comparison of the styles of the two bands, where Opeth are simply the most obvious example. Not a comparison of bands in themselves, its the song writing style which is being compared (and only a tiny aspect too). Obviously it's something Toby feels strongly about too. Fair enough, he likes a different approach to music, and expresses it. Sounds normal to me. Mikael says shit about musicians and bands, including general statements about disliking the metal scene and similar as well. Nothing wrong with it, it's an opinion. As long as it doesnt get to the point of attacking the people behind the music, or attacks that arent even relevant or backed up with anything.
Opeth were my favourite band for a few years, and still are right up there. But motW quickly overtook them as soon as i heard it. Why? Because their approach to music is what i was looking for, i'd turned against some aspects of Opeth's music. For apparently similar sounding bands at first, there are some pretty huge fundamental differences, in the way they write riffs, songs, albums, lyrics.... production, artwork, instruments, song structure, scales/chords, etc etc.. about the only similarity is that they go from clean to distortion. It is possible to listen to the two bands and get a relatively similar experience from both, but it's achieved in entirely different ways and both have so much more to offer than the small areas they do 'sound the same'.
Two very different bands with different approaches, each far better than the other in the areas they are trying to be better at. Logical really. I like aspects of both bands.
I mean, it's like you people think Opeth are perfect or something. They aren't, nobody is. They have their strengths, they have their weaknesses. If the things you look for in music match their strengths, then congratulations you've found the perfect band for you. Why is it so scary to hear something negative about Opeth that people get this offensive, even though it was such a tiny comment?
And if a musician can't even say something about an approach they don't like in music without getting their music attacked so much, then that's pretty bad. There was really nothing much to the comment.
Black_paragon
all moths must DIE
Xtokalon said:haha.
anyway, you kind of lost your credibility there when you wrote that Drapery Falls feels cut and paste. DF couldn't have smoother transitions if it tried.
what motW songs have you listened to anyway?
hey dude the cut and paste wasn't a bad thing necessarily, don't get me wrong. I'm referring mainly to the 'spiralling to the ground below' section more than anything else. Never said it doesn't completely rule.
I downloaded the songs from MotW's website, from their newest album.
Thing is on this forum, you get people that like things like radiohead, sigur ros, godspeed you black emperor and god knows what else. Personally, I hate all that experimental music and I like metal, and love opeth for that reason, so I'm not likely to enjoy all these bands thats some of you do.
aaah, the sweeping appeal of opeth strikes again
Black_paragon
all moths must DIE
This wholes been blown out of proportion. I'm just glad there are bands like Opeth and Motw doing something a bit different from the norm.
Holy shit. I start a thread and go away for a couple of days... and...... 7 pages later....
Holy shit!
Holy shit!
Static said:
Everyone dying is a good idea. Don't turn the UM forums into every other metal forum on the planet where 90% of the posts are people saying "your favorite band sucks and youre gay!!!! my favorite band rules!!!! \m/ \m/". It was just a little jab in an interview. I can't even tell if it was meant insultingly or just in fun. If he'd written an essay on why Opeth sucks, that'd be something to make a thread over. Actually, people do that here pretty often anyway.
Static
Manically depressed robot
Y'know, if everyone died you would be dead too. So would I...
I change it to everyone dying, except me and Hondo.
I change it to everyone dying, except me and Hondo.
Episteme
Member
I haven't listened to MoTW. But I don't really give a shit about what he said. Opeth can't please everyone can they. I fucking love Opeth, and for the guy from MoTW I wouldn't mind trying out some of their stuff. And if I don't like it, then they can't have a cry about it. And if I like it, good for me. I might even buy one record of theirs.
And for the cut and paste comment. Everyone does it, my band does it(not very well though), Opeth does it, old Metallica does it. Almost every fucking band does it. It's just a matter of whether they do it well or not. Opeth does it brilliantly. Period.
And for the cut and paste comment. Everyone does it, my band does it(not very well though), Opeth does it, old Metallica does it. Almost every fucking band does it. It's just a matter of whether they do it well or not. Opeth does it brilliantly. Period.
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