- Nov 21, 2007
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INTP: thought process: hmm lets look at all the evidence and ponder and theorize
INTJ: you're one of those people, so you're wrong and an idiot
INTJ: you're one of those people, so you're wrong and an idiot
MBTI?
- Thread starter SentinelSlain
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Dak
mentat
- Nov 21, 2007
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INTP's tend to see other types as idiots too. The point is more about how we deal with information that is put forward.
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Baroque
Active Member
Stop giving validity to it you fucks. You can change personalities and be whatever the fuck you want if you try. This type of shit is little better than horoscopes and 'fate'.
Years ago you might have called me "very introverted" or "shy", I would skip class anytime there was a presentation, I was always quiet on group projects, the typical whatever. Now I teach classes for a living, and in 2 days I'll be working at NASA on group projects. Because I decided I can change myself and not believe in any predestination crap. Only hard science is real. Def not this social science garbage at least.
Years ago you might have called me "very introverted" or "shy", I would skip class anytime there was a presentation, I was always quiet on group projects, the typical whatever. Now I teach classes for a living, and in 2 days I'll be working at NASA on group projects. Because I decided I can change myself and not believe in any predestination crap. Only hard science is real. Def not this social science garbage at least.
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Dak
mentat
The problem for social sciences is that you aren't dealing with isolatable, universal things. That doesn't mean you can't approach these human problems scientifically. It's simply much more difficult. The MBTI is not scientific, but it's not horroscope level bad. It has some consistencies but is not comprehensively validated and so is not used clinically.
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Baroque
Active Member
Are personalities even definable In a scientifically sound way? The way in which you interact with people? Of course you can change that. Do you interact with people the same way every day? I doubt it. If you take control of your own mind everything you do is a concious choice. Then just learn to adapt and think quickly on your feet and you can be whatever you want at any given moment.
- Nov 21, 2007
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Baroque
Active Member
What is a personality other than how people perceive you? How you perceive yourself? You can change that too.
Dak
mentat
"Personalities"? Not currently. Traits? Yes. I linked the Big Five.
There's a lot under development and under study right now as to how much of the "I" is cognitive/conscious, and how much is subconscious. Preliminary findings are that very little is conscious. Even a lot of the conscious stuff is more post hoc rationalization of subconscious processes than anything else.
The second half of your little missive is pretty dependent on ability. You're probably falling prey to the Dunning Kruger effect.
Baroque
Active Member
Lol of course you psychologists always think there's something wrong with people. Either they're unskilled and overestimate their abilities or they're skilled and underestimate their abilities. How about people that are fucking skilled and know it? Apparently you can judge my level of skill, even when my level of education and career has surpassed yours? Maybe you're overestimating your own psych abilities prior to grad school here..
Dak
mentat
Baroque
Active Member
Never said it was easy. I said it takes years but it is possible. I'm trying to help people overcome this believing they are pinned to one personality and that's all they will ever be. Accepting any shortcomings that come along with that as "oh that's just how I am" bs. You can be whatever you want. You can improve nearly anything about yourself if you try. Not saying it's easy. But who wants to be held down because of some label. That's half of what fucking psychologists do. Hold people down with labels and make them think they need medicine and counseling. A lot of people just need time and inspiration to figure things out themselves.
Dak
mentat
Well I think the social sciences (including psych) are full of a bunch of garbage so no argument from me there. No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. It's simply a very difficult area, and there's far too much conflict of interest.
OTOH, there are matter of fact limitations for many people. Those limitations often manifest as "not caring", but these are face-saving defense mechanisms. Give average people a legitimate reason to need to care, and you will be surprised with the return you get. But unfortunately also with what you don't get. You're using some vague terminology: "improve". Sure, there's nearly always room for practically achievable improvement in nearly any area of a person's life. But time and energy is finite: Opportunity cost. Genetics (whether intelligence or physicality), experience, and social support provide floors and ceilings and practical goals.
To put it in very concrete, current terms: All the blue collar out-of-work people can't simply go "learn to code". For those that could, how many can go where the jobs are? And so on.
A lot of people need time and inspiration, and the medication can give them time and the counseling can give them inspiration. Of course a lot of people get no time and inspiration, and therefore suicides.
HamburgerBoy
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- Sep 16, 2007
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Baroque
Active Member
If they really wanted it, yes. But that is absolutely an opinion and a controversial one at that. I don't have personal experience in this particular aspect.
Baroque
Active Member
I actually agree with a lot of what you said this time. The ability to improve oneself is also a skill that a lot of people don't realize they have or is limited by their current place in the world somehow. By improving oneself to that limit though, they can take steps to raise the limit and it's really a path that can continue upwards to a surprising extent. One part of changing the limit is removing people in your life that hold you down. Whether those are bosses, friends or family members. In the end you don't need anyone that holds you down, maybe a couple family members as a support system and that is it. True power comes from within.
Inspiration can come from other sources too. For me I held heroes like Socrates, Bach, Carl Sagan, Ben Franklin, etc etc. good role models can be all the inspiration one needs.
Eventually a blue collar person can learn to code if they take their first steps down that path.
Dak
mentat
People do tend to be the proverbial "crabs in a bucket". But as we are social animals, it takes a particular kind of person and or normal person in a particular circumstance to become "anti-social" enough to climb out of the proverbial bucket.
FYP. But again, there's a myriad of factors involved.
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