Messing with Guitar Rig 4 and SD 2.0 for the first time

[christopher ridley]

Haven't really ever worked with any amp sims or drum programming. Figured I'd better start practicing. Working on slip editing for the first time as well.

Just the intro of Haste the Day's When Everything Falls. One of my favorites.

Guitars: Les Paul Studio into VTB1 into Guitar Rig 4 using the Mesa Amp Quadtracked.
Drums: Avatar kit in SD 2.0 midi programmed inside of Cubase 5.
Nothing outside of Cubase 5 plugs. Little bit of limiter and EQ on the master.

Feel like I'm getting trolled about this EQ mess. I've added about 1.5db in 2 places on the EQ curve. I feel that is completely acceptable when mastering. Was messing around with pitch shifted guitar for bass, but apparently it wasn't working so I've removed it.

Updated:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1218770/htdcover.mp3

 

[zirkonflex]

The whole mix is kinda muddy and misses any frequencies above 1000hz
I also don't like the drums, there should be more eq and compression.
The guitars are suprosingly good for guitar rig

 

[Harry Hughes]

Very muffled overall.
You would probably just need to start this from scratch really.
Pitch shifted guitar for bass doesn't help the situation at all.

 

[christopher ridley]

Usually don't mix loud or bright, I leave it for mastering. I went ahead and tossed a comp, limiter, EQ on the stereo out. Should be a better.

 

[guitarguru777]

Well if thats the case then you have no idea what mastering is for. Its not to make things "bright"

Take the advice people give you here, most know what they are talking about. Rule number one .... If it doesnt sound good to you BEFORE mastering, its not going to sound any better AFTER mastering.

 

[christopher ridley]

Well if thats the case then you have no idea what mastering is for. Its not to make things "bright"

Take the advice people give you here, most know what they are talking about. Rule number one .... If it doesnt sound good to you BEFORE mastering, its not going to sound any better AFTER mastering.

Thank you for your input, but I believe an EQ has been applied to a stereo track to brighten it at some point in time. Mastering is for anything the song needs. I wait to get the volume and overall presence and air the track needs during mastering. But again, I appreciate you coming in and belittling my knowledge and schooling me.

 

[guitarguru777]

Dude I am not trying to be a dick, but your wrong.

You need to go do some research, a shit ton of research. If there is one thing you will find here its when you give answers like that when someone has given you advice, we will stop helping.

You obviously know very little about mastering, and what it is used for. If a mix does not sound great before mastering it WILL NOT sounds good after. The punch, clarity, and character of a mix all come from the mixing process not the mastering process. Technically this all comes from the "TRACKING" process, but things that lack punch while tracking can be fixed somewhat during mixing. Mastering adds some "glue" to the mix making it all stick together and ads some loudness to the mix.

Not to toot my own horn either cause I am definitely not one of the best n this board, but my mixes sound better then this WAY before the mastering process.

Here is another rule, if you have to boost or cut anything more then 2 or 3 DB to make it "sound good" then the source track is bad and you need to do it over correctly. Mixes should basically come together on their own once you know what you are doing. By applying too much EQ to anything it flattens it out and loses its punch and definition.

Here is the difference between a NON Mastered, and Mastered Track .... masterd version has a bit more "glue" and volume. But the mix sounds basically the same before and after.

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/TOG/DVT.mp3 <--Mastered

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/TOG/DVT_No_Mastering.mp3 < -- Not Mastered

So tell me I am wrong again

I am attempting to help you, but if you fail to heed the advice we give you then dont ask for help.

 

[christopher ridley]

Dude I am not trying to be a dick, but your wrong.

You need to go do some research, a shit ton of research. If there is one thing you will find here its when you give answers like that when someone has given you advice, we will stop helping.

You obviously know very little about mastering, and what it is used for. If a mix does not sound great before mastering it WILL NOT sounds good after. The punch, clarity, and character of a mix all come from the mixing process not the mastering process. Technically this all comes from the "TRACKING" process, but things that lack punch while tracking can be fixed somewhat during mixing. Mastering adds some "glue" to the mix making it all stick together and ads some loudness to the mix.

Not to toot my own horn either cause I am definitely not one of the best n this board, but my mixes sound better then this WAY before the mastering process.

Here is another rule, if you have to boost or cut anything more then 2 or 3 DB to make it "sound good" then the source track is bad and you need to do it over correctly. Mixes should basically come together on their own once you know what you are doing. By applying too much EQ to anything it flattens it out and loses its punch and definition.

Here is the difference between a NON Mastered, and Mastered Track .... masterd version has a bit more "glue" and volume. But the mix sounds basically the same before and after.

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/TOG/DVT.mp3 <--Mastered

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/TOG/DVT_No_Mastering.mp3 < -- Not Mastered

So tell me I am wrong again

I am attempting to help you, but if you fail to heed the advice we give you then dont ask for help.

You have told me I have no idea what I'm talking about twice, then explained to me why you think I have no clue, and then told me your mixes are better than mine. Thanks for the help.

 

[CatharsisStudios]

you need to remix from scratch, boosting frequencies via ITB (proably what you are doing) to make up for it in the lack of the mix is kind of a bad idea

 

[christopher ridley]

Eh, I'm not too worried about remixing it. It's a few guitar tracks in a crap amp sim, with a a ghetto bass tone, SD 2.0 first time using, with nothing but stock Cubase plugs. I boosted 1.5 db here and there with 3-5 db reduction with the limiter on the stereo track. Really nothing radical.

More worried about learning a little more about the different amp sims and drum programming and practicing using them in general.

Thanks for the input all.

 

[xFkx]

Well if thats the case then you have no idea what mastering is for. Its not to make things "bright"

Oh come on now, mastering engineers do eq the whole mix, which sometimes might include brightening the whole thing.

And, max 2-3 db eq on tracks ? How the hell do you eq a real kick drum then, or bass guitar ? And you even call that a rule ?

 

[guitarguru777]

Oh come on now, mastering engineers do eq the whole mix, which sometimes might include brightening the whole thing.

And, max 2-3 db eq on tracks ? How the hell do you eq a real kick drum then, or bass guitar ? And you even call that a rule ?

Allright FINE ... drums are an exception .... lol its more a general rule I use for Vox, Guitar and Bass. Yes EQ is used when mastering, but not in the way he is talking about.

 

[MetalAges]

Thread cleaned. Take it private if you need guys, you know who I am talking to.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I'll just throw in some feedback on the recording.

It's pretty bad man, you really need to get your skills up a little more and re track everything because it's a mushy muddy mess.

 

[the omega experiment]

Which one is the Mesa? That's not the Ultrasonic is it?? Cuz that is what I use, but I thought it sounded more like the 5150.

 

[christopher ridley]

Which one is the Mesa? That's not the Ultrasonic is it?? Cuz that is what I use, but I thought it sounded more like the 5150.

One called rectifier.

 

[Mooch]

Holy guitars Batman!!!! They seemed just a smidge too loud. Roll back on them or maybe bring the drums up some. It takes practice. You also need to learn to be able to take some criticism too. Don't take offense when someone doesn't like your mix. Most of these guys have been doing this shit for years and know what they're talking about.

I've read some great tips on here and if you take it into consideration and give it a try, you'll see that they're right.

 

[Trevoire520]

If your mix is good then sometimes you might need little to no eq in mastering at all.

Dont rely on mastering to fix your stuff later man, get your sound 90% there before mastering, and then use mastering to get that last 10%.

 

[christopher ridley]

Holy guitars Batman!!!! They seemed just a smidge too loud. Roll back on them or maybe bring the drums up some. It takes practice. You also need to learn to be able to take some criticism too. Don't take offense when someone doesn't like your mix. Most of these guys have been doing this shit for years and know what they're talking about.

I've read some great tips on here and if you take it into consideration and give it a try, you'll see that they're right.

I see what you are saying. Pulled the 2 inside guitars down a hair. Removed the "bass" out. Just guitars and the kit now.

 

[christopher ridley]

If your mix is good then sometimes you might need little to no eq in mastering at all.

Dont rely on mastering to fix your stuff later man, get your sound 90% there before mastering, and then use mastering to get that last 10%.

This whole EQ thing is blown out of proportion. I used no more than 1.5 db around 5-6k and 10-12k on the stereo out. Sound was where I wanted it for the most part. Just gave the whole thing a little edge is all.