Metal connections

I had something I wanted to say here, but I get the feeling it wouldn't go down too well and that I'd be slammed for being uninformed and not knowing what I'm talking about, and then being given an example of a bunch of bands I've never heard of doing really well.

So I'll keep my trap shut.
 
If you've got something to say, you might as well say it. It's not my place to bring up Tim's issues in public, so all I will say is that no, Matt wasn't banned just on the strength of that remark above; and yes, he does know a bunch of Aus bands that are doing really well overseas, whom you may or may not know. :)
 
OK then, I'll say it.

Local metal might not be dead, but is it doing at all well? How many Aussie metal bands has the average punter heard of? Why is everyone seemingly content with the Aussie metal scene still being underground, yet several metal bands in other countries have had success?

To me, success means chart success as well as critical success, not just being able to play gigs while still keeping your day job and having a bunch of fans on the internet think you're really good, and then maybe getting on to a couple of festivals in Europe, way down the bottom of the list in small print amid all the bands whose names you don't know because the font is so obscure.

See, told you I should have shut my trap.
 
it isn't THAT bad spiff, well I don't think it is, I mean good Aussie bands are releasing good albums, admittedly you don't hear about it much, but I think that has alot to do with not being on major labels with a loud voice, it is expensive enough to record an album let alone do huge press for it too
 
the majority of Australian bands aren't up to an international standard.
 
OK, without taking this thread too far off topic, some things need to be explained so people don't get a distorted view about what was mentioned earlier on in the thread. I'm not gonna say much here, most that needs to be said should be and was taken to PM.

Yes, Matt - I did ban you. But not for having a differing opinion to mine, as ludicrous as I personally thought that opinion was. It was the last straw in a very long line of annoyances that quite a few people had contacted me about on our own forum, but I continued to give you the benefit of the doubt long after I would have kicked other people out (yet another thing that a lot of people complained about).

Your attitude and the way you post is inflammatory and comes across as intentionally trollish. Making blanket statements in a single sentence with a very controversial viewpoint, usually in response to a lot of people's opposite views is really annoying. That's not to say you can't have an opposite point of view - quite the contrary - but it's HOW it's put across that makes all the difference.

A great example is Spiff's post as compared to yours. Spiff agrees with you largely. Now, while I don't agree with Spiff either (I'll actually get to that in the next post to get this back on topic), how he put his points across was great - it was a rational, well thought-out opinion, not just a trollish one-liner.

I fucking LOVE the LORD forum now. About 4 months back it was a festering pile of shit with nothing but playground arguments, Days Of Our Lives dramas and essentially people using the forum us an alternative to MSN or something. So many people complained (or left entirely) so we cleaned up all of the problem posters. The forum is once again thriving with a great bunch of regulars that have intelligent conversations and debates and generally all get along great, differences of opinion included.

There was just one storm cloud that was pissing on the parade for me and a few other people, and after your post on here, Matt, I thought to myself "Seriously, why do we have to put up with it? If someone is annoying me, would I still ask him to come over to my house ever day? No." So as I said, that was the last in a long line of incidents that finally pushed it over the edge for me, not the difference in opinion at all.

So this is all I'm gonna say on the matter publicly. People obviously are free to either believe it or not, or think what they like about me for doing it of course, but that's basically the facts. I'll be taking the specifics to PM.

I'd also like to apologise to everyone here for taking the thread off topic and bringing personal shit to this forum, so with that said, so endeth my post and thankfully will get back on topic from now on!
 
OK then, I'll say it.

Local metal might not be dead, but is it doing at all well? How many Aussie metal bands has the average punter heard of? Why is everyone seemingly content with the Aussie metal scene still being underground, yet several metal bands in other countries have had success?

To me, success means chart success as well as critical success, not just being able to play gigs while still keeping your day job and having a bunch of fans on the internet think you're really good, and then maybe getting on to a couple of festivals in Europe, way down the bottom of the list in small print amid all the bands whose names you don't know because the font is so obscure.

See, told you I should have shut my trap.

OK, I disagree here. I think it's all about perceptions.

When a lot of people see bands that tour here from overseas, they go "wow, they must be pretty good because they're from overseas" when we have bands that are as good or better. The perception is that because they're touring here from another country they must be somehow better musicians or doing better commercially than the local product.

The fact is that for every one band that tours here or every band that we hear of over here, there's THOUSANDS of other bands that we don't hear of outside of a few internet fans and MySpace page with a bad band logo on it. The percentage of bands from Australia that are doing stuff is on par with a lot of other places in the world when you take in to account population and especially the isolation we have to contend with.

For an Australian band to be successful overseas means BIG money in flights before they can even tour there, or a decent wad of cash (either self-funded or label funded). It's not like, say, France where you can hop in your car and in a few hours you're playing in Germany alongside other "name" bands.

The other perception that people have is that bands overseas are doing better than we are because you see them playing at a huge festival in front of tens of thousands of people. What people don't get is that when those bands AREN'T playing those festivals, they're playing to 100 - 300 people a night tops normally. I saw Doro play in Germany to 120 people. I hear Blaze Bailey was averaging about 60 people a night for a tour he did a couple of years back. Not so good. Most even semi-popular metal bands can do that here with no problem.

We have some amazing world-class bands down here. Just because a lot of people outside of the scene hasn't heard of them doesn't make them less so, and it's the same anywhere in the world - they're not really known much outside of the metal scenes (huge bands like Maiden, etc. not included - I'll get to that point in a minute). A lot of these bands are touring internationally. Dungeon did 3 tours internationally, Psycroptic did 3 I think, Alchemist are headlining ProgPower I believe, Vanishing Point, Black Majesty, Anarion, Mortification.... this is just quickly off the top of my head then too, I've missed heaps of bands out. So we're doing OK I think.

The one thing we ARE lacking is an international juggernaut kind of band (AC/DC and Rose Tattoo aside). We don't have a Maiden or Priest or Blind Guardian here, which is probably a combination of a lot of the above factors about distance and country size I mention, as well as the times being different now. It's easier than ever to put out an album, but it's harder than ever to get it to sell with the way the downloading has affected everything, so building up a massive fan base is harder than ever before when everything is so much of a disposable commodity.

So yes, this is why I disagree largely with people who say the Aus metal scene is dead. It's far from dead in my opinion. It absolutely needs more work and it's far from perfect - that's pretty obvious - but in comparison to other markets like ours around the world, I reckon we're more or less on par.
 
As you airing all this in public I will continue to do the same.

Tim, I have been posting on the Dungeon/LORD forum for 5 years. I am still the same person but for some reason you have only taken exception to me in the past 6 months.

You call my posts trollish yet you put up with KoichCPA a lot longer and his posts were blunt insults for years. Obviously after posting on Maiden Downunder/Lord/Dungeon forums I became aware that that was the way he conducted himself which is fine as I knew he was just a shit stirrer.

What about RickITH?

Why should I have to explain myself? I can't just say I don't like or 'hate' something? If people want reasons I will give them to them but I don't have to justify why I like or dislike anything to anyone.

You say people have complained about me yet NOT ONE person has contacted me EVER to say that they have taken offence to my posts. If anyone had some fucking balls that is what they would do and we could sort it out.

The forum is great now because everyone is a fucking arselicker to you? I understand it is your forum and all but just because I tend to have different opinion to the majority of people most of the time doesn't mean I intentionally shit stir.

One thing I noticed is how you changed when Wenda came along and I know personally that she has offended/put off many people with her own abrupt posting style and general arrogant and pretentious attitude.

You also seem to have a knack for alienating fans and people who support/supported you in the past. Perhaps you should think about this.








FREE SPEECH IS DEAD
 
Actually, Tim, to bring this thread back on topic you'll have to start talking about how metal I am because my girlfriend met someone who knows someone who's spoken to a dude in a band.

Bloody troublemakers.

(Is a guitar tech even "with" the band? I guess in a band like Slayer they would be.)
 
Actually, Tim, to bring this thread back on topic you'll have to start talking about how metal I am because my girlfriend met someone who knows someone who's spoken to a dude in a band.

Bloody troublemakers.

(Is a guitar tech even "with" the band? I guess in a band like Slayer they would be.)

Depends on the size of the bad usually. A lot of techs are fucking KILLER musicians in their own right and have their own side projects.

And yes, you're very metal! *gives you a biscuit* HAHA!
 
OK then, I'll say it.

Local metal might not be dead, but is it doing at all well? How many Aussie metal bands has the average punter heard of? Why is everyone seemingly content with the Aussie metal scene still being underground, yet several metal bands in other countries have had success?

To me, success means chart success as well as critical success, not just being able to play gigs while still keeping your day job and having a bunch of fans on the internet think you're really good, and then maybe getting on to a couple of festivals in Europe, way down the bottom of the list in small print amid all the bands whose names you don't know because the font is so obscure.

See, told you I should have shut my trap.

Please explain to me "critical success" , as being in ANY band for many years requires one to maintain a day job , there is limited ways a band can make enough money from gigs , cd sales, merch in Australia just like 95% of the bands from Europe , there are many well known bands that to this day, still have day jobs and they may be percieved as being successful because they release album after album as contract fodder , yet do many of those bands actually break even or make profit , you would be suprised mate.
As for touring European festivals , do you know that a majority of the bands that do the festivals do not get paid, and as I think Tim mentioned in a previous post , coming from Australia to Europe is a big thing , not only in flight tickets , carne forms/clearances for gear , logistics and funds for accomadation, money left at home for mortgage/rent, money left for family to make ends meet , it is also a huge hurdle for any metal band from Australia to actually get a record deal because of the tyranny of distance, some metal labels will not even look at an Australian band twice due to the costs involved, believe it or not they dont have huge wads of cash spare like they used to and to add salt to the wounds many overseas labels do know of Australian metal bands , they are not stupid , they speak and have their ears and minds open.
As for success heh heh you are kidding right , do you know how much the charts are rigged , seriously go and have a read on the industry , you will be suprised how much credibility they have if none just like the majority of internet music/metal sites polls , they can be easily rigged .
As for you shutting your trap , dude I appreciate healthy discussion and seriously appreciate you letting me know what you mean when you say "critical success" , and dont give me an arrogant one liner otherwise you will come across as stupid .
cheers.....Chris ( Vanishing Point )
 
Part of the reason I didn't want to say what I said in the first place is because I don't know the inner workings of Australian bands and the music scene, and I knew someone would call me out on it. Yes, I'm man enough to admit it.

The bottom line is that while there may be metal bands around, and while they may work their little hearts out to become successful, the scene is still unknown to the average punter.

As Tim said, it's all about perception, and my perception is that Australian metal is not successful. It's still almost exclusively underground. That's obviously because of the style of music, and I'm not saying the bands here should sell out, I'm just addressing the comment that metal in Australia is dead. It might not be, but it's not alive and kicking.

With regards to critical success... well, I mean success on a critical level, getting good reviews for albums etc. My sentence meant "not only critical success but also chart success" - maybe I should have been clearer. The Aussie metal that I have heard - and there hasn't been much of it at all - has been pretty good.

And please, Chris (Vanishing Point), never accuse me of giving an arrogant one liner. You've got me confused with someone else.

I won't reply to this thread again (except to talk about how metal Phloggy is) because I'm obviously out of my depth in this discussion.