Metal for the Parents

[mutantllama]

Yeah, but they still stay on topic.

 

[Catastrophic]

Man, I'm laughing so hard now to the last few post.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Umm, how?

You would think everyone would get drunk and subsequently post in there, duh!

 

[ShredHeadJHJ]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/general-metal-discussion/273041-black-metal-385.html - page 385

Go down to your post, the 4th from the bottom of the page, and read from there. End of discussion.

V5 definitely has the most realistic argument of anyone in that thread IMO. I'm not convinced they're black metal by modern standards, & they were likely only slightly considered black metal by early 80's standards if the term "black metal" had even been coined by then.

If I formed a band today that sounds exactly like Mercyful Fate did on their early releases & posted the songs here I will say that there's a 100% chance that no one here will say the music I'm playing is black metal. I could even wear face paint & it would make no difference.

I don't really think it's all that big of deal, I just find the historic reasons for labeling them as such is a crock.

Black Metal is not even primarily defined by musical aesthetics, so the idea that there would be an "established sound" of Black Metal music doesn't even make sense.

This makes my head hurt.

Well contrary to popular belief, genres are not solely classified on musical qualities. In Metal, this is especially true of Black Metal, so, to continue to state the obvious, saying that Mercyful Fate is not Black Metal and citing the fact that they don't meet the "established sound" of Black Metal today as evidence is missing the point and doing a disservice to the complexity of the issue at hand.

I think that some folks take stuff like this a bit too seriously. If you were looking at it from basically any other perspective you would realize that this sounds silly. Judging from the responses on internet message boards it is a trend for metal heads to have drastically varying opinions & viewpoints that are not clearly definied.

So, if a band sounds like black metal, but the guys in the band all fit the physical sterotype of a thrash band & have two songs about beating people up then they would be considered half-thrash even though they sound exactly like Darkspace?? That may sound a tad excessive, but by what I'm hearing this doesn't sound too far off.

To simply say that they were somewhat influential on the black metal scene sounds acceptable to me.

I'm not trying to be a tool, I'm just saying it exactly how I think it & I have no more to say on the subject. That Mercyful Fate=Black Metal debate in that thread was an open ended argument Zeph.

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

I'm listening to Alatyr for the first time ever because of this thread.

Symphonic black metal is simpler than symphonic metal metal.

Oh, good point.

*that more favors the bass.

Ah, that makes sense.

Wasn't sure on that one, but that works. Thanks for the proofread.

No problem. Ordinarily, I wouldn't even point it out, but I figured I would this time since you're sending it to your parents.

 

[cookiecutter]

I'm listening to Alatyr for the first time ever because of this thread.

Good. I love this band.

Also, New Balance crew is strong on here

 

[Satanstoenail]

Adidas Superstars ftw.

 

[skeptik]

V5 definitely has the most realistic argument of anyone in that thread IMO. I'm not convinced they're black metal by modern standards, & they were likely only slightly considered black metal by early 80's standards if the term "black metal" had even been coined by then.

If I formed a band today that sounds exactly like Mercyful Fate did on their early releases & posted the songs here I will say that there's a 100% chance that no one here will say the music I'm playing is black metal. I could even wear face paint & it would make no difference.

I don't really think it's all that big of deal, I just find the historic reasons for labeling them as such is a crock.



This makes my head hurt.



I think that some folks take stuff like this a bit too seriously. If you were looking at it from basically any other perspective you would realize that this sounds silly. Judging from the responses on internet message boards it is a trend for metal heads to have drastically varying opinions & viewpoints that are not clearly definied.

So, if a band sounds like black metal, but the guys in the band all fit the physical sterotype of a thrash band & have two songs about beating people up then they would be considered half-thrash even though they sound exactly like Darkspace?? That may sound a tad excessive, but by what I'm hearing this doesn't sound too far off.

To simply say that they were somewhat influential on the black metal scene sounds acceptable to me.

I'm not trying to be a tool, I'm just saying it exactly how I think it & I have no more to say on the subject. That Mercyful Fate=Black Metal debate in that thread was an open ended argument Zeph.

You do realize that you don't know a whole hell of a lot about Metal in general to be having this conversation, right? The term Black Metal was coined and widely in use by 1982 with the release of, oh, I don't know, one of the most influential releases in the history of the genre, namely Venom - BLACK METAL. And yes, people who actually know what they're talking about would consider a band that sounds exactly like Mercyful Fate today as a Black Metal band, albeit highly redundant.

 

[Zephyrus]

I thought they were from DC.

You're right. I must have confused them with another band.



Printing it out now and mailing it today.

 

[Zephyrus]

My father just emailed me his review of the CD...

You asked me to listen to that collection of 11 metal-band selections seriously, and that I did. In fact I took some notes….

My general reaction to the music was certainly that it was not quite what I was expecting. The better ones, at least from my point of view, were indeed dark, heavy and atmospheric – the ones that sounded like they were being played in a huge cavern came off best.

These works to my mind recall the paintings of Hieronymous Bosch – you would do well to look at some of his works to see people running around in chaos as cities burn in the background. It is probably no accident that Bosch lived in the 16th century – the metal band music seems indeed linked to imagery of medieval times. As far as literature goes, you yourself brought up The Inferno as prose that captures the same mood. I would also suggest the Book of Revelation in the bible as another link.

The other connection that stuck me, as a church musician, was the frequent use of modal harmony (today’s modern minor key is the only surviving member of what was a whole series of church modes). You can hear this harmony in Gregorian Chant and in liturgical works written prior to 1685. Again the connection among some of this music and castles, cathedrals, and even earlier dark-age chaos, was something that stuck me (and I’m sure also yourself, knowing your interests).

As to general negative comments (I’ll make specific comments on each cut later), I found the vocals were disappointing with the possible exception of the guttural screams which seemed to typify madmen running around in hell. The ones where vocalists were actually trying to produce lyrics were typical of contemporary pop artists – badly in need of voice lessons. But then you know the world I work in and I hear these things very critically.

I would also say that some of the cuts evoked a “too long and repetitious” reactions. Minimalism is a valid technique but it needs to be used to produce a specific artistic effect other than to simply lengthen 1 minute of material into 10.

It would also be fair to say that this is still “rock music” intended for a generation other than my own. It is loud and relies on a constant barrage of over-amplified bass and lead guitars, along with the numbing ever-presence of loud drumming. As someone once said – “let it rest a bit, I can find the beat without being hit over the head”.

Some brief specific notes I took on each song…

1) Limbonic Art. The best cut on the album. Truly madmen running around in hell with Bosch paintings in the background and allusions to ancient harmonies….

2) Merciful Fate. More like standard rock. 1983 tells all (a bad decade for rock). We might be getting tired of the guttural vocals in this one.

3) Satyricon. Good. The throwing of quiet acoustical instruments into the mix provided the needed relief I spoke of earlier. More marginal singing.
4) Summoning. The best vocals on the disk (she still needs voice lessons, though), and the most standard harmony, although it was still on the minor/modal side.

5) Pentagram. Disappointing. Sounds like mainstream rock to me.

6) Nokturnal Mortum. Nice. Another good example of the Bosch paintings and the Devil running around in hell.

7) Arcturus. Trying to make a point out of a non-melody melody. Everything under the vocals was good.

8) Countess. Very repetitious, although did evoke the medieval chaos atmosphere somewhat.

9) Alatyr. Good but repetitious.

10) Opeth. No particular reaction.

11) Borknager. The second best cut on the disk, with all the elements of the stuff I tended to like.

In Summary, you have to remember I am an almost-60 classically-trained musician. I disagree with your assertion that this is not background music – in my opinion it was great background for providing atmosphere for all the art, literature, historic, and architectural elements mentioned previously. To listen to it as I would listen to a classical symphony would never be something I would choose to do.

By only remaining comment would be “This explains a lot….”.

Dad

 

[The Ozzman]

Lame comment on the Pentagram

 

[skeptik]

Sounds like a typical response from somebody with his background that can't possibly understand this music.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

What nec said.

 

[waif]

nah, it sounds like he got the atmosphere...as far as I'm concerned, that's the most important part of music anyways...
although it seems to be true that his background to some extent limits his ability to appreciate some aspects (esp the vocals and drums ) of the music...

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

I agree with your dad's comment about voice lessons, although not necessarily in regard to your selections, because I haven't heard most of them. With nearly all contemporary music though, he hit the nail right on the head.

Also, I hope he wasn't talking about Arcturus. Their singer is easily one of the most talented vocalists I've ever heard.

 

[skeptik]

Anyone who legitimately suggests "voice lessons" for this kind of music is definitely missing something in the bigger picture of what this music is about.

 

[~Neurotica]

What the hell did you expect?
At least he tried.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

Anyone who legitimately suggests "voice lessons" for this kind of music is definitely missing something in the bigger picture of what this music is about.

Just like anyone who complains about old Hellhammer albums, this music is about something more then production and playing skill.

 

[Valerie]

Anyone who legitimately suggests "voice lessons" for this kind of music is definitely missing something in the bigger picture of what this music is about.

He suggested "voices lessons" for a female clean singer and other clean singers. He isn't talking about harsh vocals.

 

[skeptik]

He suggested "voices lessons" for a female clean singer and other clean singers. He isn't talking about harsh vocals.

That wasn't the only part at which he said singers needed voice lessons.