Metal in Europe vs. Metal in the USA

About what? You actually think soccer isn't plagued with corruption?

Not that much more than any other sport! That's like saying baseball players don't cheat. XD

Though I will agree that the Italians are annoying about it...

EDIT: My friend Boris was hit by a beer bottle at a DC United game. WOO SOCCER!
 
Soccer fans are pretty crazy, I give you that. Its actually the one reason I went to our college's soccer games. I got hit with a fucking tortilla once, which didn't hurt, but was more of a "wtf who throws a tortilla?!" moment.

I lol'd.

I will never forget watching a soccer game with my dad back in Brazil, I think I must have been 8-9 years old. We were sitting next to these older guys who were very vocal. One of the guys was wearing sandals, and he had his feet on the back of the seat ahead of his. Long story short, a bad call was made. The guy sitting next to him was so mad, he ripped the sandals off the other guy's foot and threw it towards the field. :lol: I remember as if it was yesterday... and it actually hit some lady's head before plunging into the abyss... the shoeless guy's face was pretty priceless!
 
I remember as if it was yesterday... and it actually hit some lady's head before plunging into the abyss... the shoeless guy's face was pretty priceless!

XD Fabulous.. that reminds me of my dad's story, from when El Salvador made it to the World Cup back in.. what.. the 80's?? They were playing the cup in Spain, so since my mom is from Spain, he got tickets to see it while we visited my mom's family. My dad is from El Salvador, you see. This was a huge deal! So my mom asked my dad to take her younger brother.

Well.. El Salvador's team ain't great. They lost HORRIBLY. The whole time, my dad's bro-in-law is giving him shit for coming from a country with one of the worst teams in history. I think my dad was THIS CLOSE to punching him.

Family bonding!
 
XD Fabulous.. that reminds me of my dad's story, from when El Salvador made it to the World Cup back in.. what.. the 80's?? They were playing the cup in Spain, so since my mom is from Spain, he got tickets to see it while we visited my mom's family. My dad is from El Salvador, you see. This was a huge deal! So my mom asked my dad to take her younger brother.

Well.. El Salvador's team ain't great. They lost HORRIBLY. The whole time, my dad's bro-in-law is giving him shit for coming from a country with one of the worst teams in history. I think my dad was THIS CLOSE to punching him.

Family bonding!

:lol:

82.

And yes, El Salvador sucked that year. If I'm not wrong, they lost to Hungary 10-1 during the group stages... :lol: No team has been able to repeat the self-humiliation to date.
 
Metal being 'stronger' in Europe does not mean it's bad by default in the US. Europe is not one country. There are lots of European countries that the US beats in 'metal support'. Is Germany stronger than the US? Probably. Is Norway? Probably. Is Europe as a whole? Completely debatable.

Europe has twice the population as the US, so yes, they have more fests. For all genres of music. Metal magazines are not the only magazines going out of print. This has nothing to do with Europe vs US but instead internet vs print. Has nothing to do with metal or music for that matter. For the most part, European countries have higher population density, so yeah, they might have more people at shows. But look at the average European tour vs US tour. Which has more dates. Which goes to more places?

It's gone from metal being bad in the US to metal being better in Europe. They're not the same thing!

Funny you mention that because in the last post I was going to say that in Germany alone there is more of a metal presents, support, and happening than in the U.S. So you could break it down to countries if you like. Though considering the actually size of the U.S. in comparsion to the mass size of Europe you are not as far off as U.s. vs. Germany, Greece, or whatever. Going at a different angle one could also the differences in the two socially where America is more consumer oriented than Europe, that would make it seem that the "metal" might be bigger here.
 
Disclaimer: Please do not construe anything in this post as racist.

I think what happened is that in the early 90's, hip hop exploded in the US while death/black metal was sweeping Northern Europe. Thanks in part to the dubious culture shaping of MTV, and in part to some of the ridiculous excess of the 80's hair bands, hip hop became the genre of choice for rebellious American teens. You can see it even in suburban schools today: the black t shirt heavy metal crowd has been replaced by baggy jean wearing Eminem wanna be's.

While Europe isn't monolithic by any means, there is more homogeneity in each European national culture than there is in the US, at least IMHO. So it just makes sense to me that there has been a higher level of acceptance for loud, distorted songs about Thor in Oslo, for example, than in Miami or Atlanta.
 
I think what happened is that in the early 90's, hip hop exploded in the US while death/black metal was sweeping Northern Europe.

1) Hip Hop also exploded in Europe. We didn't have as many "quality" artists in the genre, but it was huge, and many of the American hip hop artists were really big over in EU.

2) How big do you really think the death/black metal genre was in Northern Europe? It was never mainstream - trust me. I lived in Denmark and was at the peak of the black metal genre a journalist at the biggest metal zine in DK - black metal was never anything but underground.
 
And by the way, those of you silly boys who think Scandinavia is the land of metal and only metal...

Ever heard of Stargate? That big Music Production company who has produced #1 albums by artists such as Jordin Sparks, Jennifer Hudson, Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Katy Perry, Nas, Lionel Richie, Rihanna, Usher is from... are you ready?

NORWAY

http://stargatestudios.org/

One of the greatest production companies in the pop, r&b and hiphop genres.
 
Disclaimer: Please do not construe anything in this post as racist.

I think what happened is that in the early 90's, hip hop exploded in the US while death/black metal was sweeping Northern Europe. Thanks in part to the dubious culture shaping of MTV, and in part to some of the ridiculous excess of the 80's hair bands, hip hop became the genre of choice for rebellious American teens. You can see it even in suburban schools today: the black t shirt heavy metal crowd has been replaced by baggy jean wearing Eminem wanna be's.

While Europe isn't monolithic by any means, there is more homogeneity in each European national culture than there is in the US, at least IMHO. So it just makes sense to me that there has been a higher level of acceptance for loud, distorted songs about Thor in Oslo, for example, than in Miami or Atlanta.

I hate posts like these. No it's not racist man, but it's overly generalized, illogical, and tries too hard. You do realize that major labels were trying to bankroll dm bands in the Early 90's in the US right? Bands like Morbid Angel etc landed major label deals. Roadrunner signed a deal with Def Jam, and Earache with Sony. Let's also not forget Pantera, Megadeth, and Slayer, who were all selling records and getting pushed on MTV during the 90's. Yeah Wu Tang Clan, a Tribe Called Quest, etc put out some incredibly fresh, raw, powerful, and innovative albums that shook the world, and honestly, rightfully so. 36 Chambers is INFINITELY more brutal than any of my favorite dm records.
 
And by the way, those of you silly boys who think Scandinavia is the land of metal and only metal...

Ever heard of Stargate? That big Music Production company who has produced #1 albums by artists such as Jordin Sparks, Jennifer Hudson, Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Katy Perry, Nas, Lionel Richie, Rihanna, Usher is from... are you ready?

NORWAY

http://stargatestudios.org/

One of the greatest production companies in the pop, r&b and hiphop genres.
:popcorn:

All of those artists (except maybe Nas, don't know who that is) are from North America. As far as the black metal thing, I imagine it was the extreme fringe in Northern Europe. But it was the music in the headlines the way rap drive by shootings were here.
 
I hate posts like these. No it's not racist man, but it's overly generalized, illogical, and tries too hard. You do realize that major labels were trying to bankroll dm bands in the Early 90's in the US right? Bands like Morbid Angel etc landed major label deals. Roadrunner signed a deal with Def Jam, and Earache with Sony. Let's also not forget Pantera, Megadeth, and Slayer, who were all selling records and getting pushed on MTV during the 90's. Yeah Wu Tang Clan, a Tribe Called Quest, etc put out some incredibly fresh, raw, powerful, and innovative albums that shook the world, and honestly, rightfully so. 36 Chambers is INFINITELY more brutal than any of my favorite dm records.

Sorry, just trying to play armchair sociologist. I actually had this discussion with some slightly younger buddies who grew up in the 90's. Their general consensus was that rap was more readily available in the US than metal, at least in the Southeast US, during the 90's and was easily as effective at pissing their parents off.
 
Their audience here in the U,S, is by far different than the mass European metal audience. And even if it would be argued that AA is also huge in Europe well along with the rest of what Europe accepts that America doesn't would prove that metal is stronger there.


Yeah, Lady Gaga and Ke$a will be bringing them out on tour and "Death In Fire" will be in movie soundtracks. You don't even know what mainstream is, which probably explains why you sit on your ass and complain about why your bands aren't doing as well as you want them to. And by the way, do you have any data or evidence to prove that Amon Amarth's audience is different from Europe's? I am sure Metal Blade would love to know this information/data too. You're full of shit.


Goddamn Europe has more metal labels, metal tours, metal fests, metal magazines, if it was not stronger there then it would all have turnout like fests and tours here, magazines would go the way of Metal Maniacs, etc. Goddamn it is so easy to see if you get out there in it. But maybe you are that guy who goes to the AA show, looks over that band you never heard of until you are told it is ok to like them.

Proof? Numbers? Yes print zines are still doing well in Europe and not so much here. Guess what? We have blogs like MetalSucks.net and Deciblog in lieu of print. That's just how it is. Blogs and webzines aren't nearly as big in Europe as they are over here, as it's the preferred medium here while print zines are preferred there. Again, this comes back to my point. You may not be happy with the fact that we're moving away from physical print magazines, but that does not mean diddly squat in terms of "who's bigger." It just means that your preference is now unpopular. If you want to say that your preference is "right," just like your "metal" is "right," while everyone else's is wrong, that's your problem.

Also more metal tours? Don't make me laugh. There are MUCH less European tours since Europe is a continent, not a country. Europe has completely different markets. What does well in the UK has no bearing on the mainland. Promoters want different things, packages are almost impossible to assemble. Not to mention the red-tape issues that need to be dealt with when going from country to country, making the entire process more expensive. This is in part, why European tours almost always demand the opener pay for a buy-on, where as in the US buy-on tours are much less likely because it's much cheaper to tour the US for a US band. Cities aren't as far apart from one another, no taxes to be paid from going from one country into another, promoters are all on the same page, etc.

And as for labels -- name me one European label besides Nuclear Blast, Season Of Mist and Century Media that become extremely successful over the last 10 years? I'd let you get away with Basick and that's pretty much it. In the US? Sumerian, Prosthetic, Goodfight/Ferret, Mediaskare, E1, Relapse, and I can go on and on.

I did not start this with you, you brought it to me and now I'm done with it.

I made a comment and you called me out by posting your CD collection and taking it personally, as if I care. Grow up.

There are those who will mistake honesty as arrogance.

Correct, but fortunately nobody here is doing that. All you've been doing is spouting half-truths and unbackable observations with no falsifiable, or even quantifiable examples. You make claims like "Amon Amarth's audience is different here" without proving it. Really? So emo kids and Wu Tang fans buy Amon Amarth and no metal kids do? Prove it. Don't pretend to know.

For the third time, if you're sad to see the bands and ideals that you prefer go away in favor for the new school, fine. But to say metal isn't doing well over here because your stuff isn't selling as well as Metal Blade's is not only contradictory, but completely arrogant. It's contradictory because you recognize that other metal bands and labels are vastly outselling yours, yet you believe metal in America suffers. It's arrogant, because your stuff is (in your own words) the "larger metal world" just because YOU like it more than what Metal Blade or Century Media puts out. Guess what, I have bad news for you: it's not the larger metal world. It's a secluded, niche metal world. The larger metal world is what Nuclear Blast, CM, Sumerian, Relapse, etc etc represents. And while there's NOTHING wrong with being a boutique label, own it or change your model -- as others have said in this thread.
 
Yeah, Lady Gaga and Ke will be bringing them out on tour and "Death In Fire" will be in movie soundtracks. You don't even know what mainstream is, which probably explains why you sit on your ass and complain about why your bands aren't doing as well as you want them to. And by the way, do you have any data or evidence to prove that Amon Amarth's audience is different from Europe's? I am sure Metal Blade would love to know this information/data too. You're full of shit.




Proof? Numbers? Yes print zines are still doing well in Europe and not so much here. Guess what? We have blogs like MetalSucks.net and Deciblog in lieu of print. That's just how it is. Blogs and webzines aren't nearly as big in Europe as they are over here, as it's the preferred medium here while print zines are preferred there. Again, this comes back to my point. You may not be happy with the fact that we're moving away from physical print magazines, but that does not mean diddly squat in terms of "who's bigger." It just means that your preference is now unpopular. If you want to say that your preference is "right," just like your "metal" is "right," while everyone else's is wrong, that's your problem.

Also more metal tours? Don't make me laugh. There are MUCH less European tours since Europe is a continent, not a country. Europe has completely different markets. What does well in the UK has no bearing on the mainland. Promoters want different things, packages are almost impossible to assemble. Not to mention the red-tape issues that need to be dealt with when going from country to country, making the entire process more expensive. This is in part, why European tours almost always demand the opener pay for a buy-on, where as in the US buy-on tours are much less likely because it's much cheaper to tour the US for a US band. Cities aren't as far apart from one another, no taxes to be paid from going from one country into another, promoters are all on the same page, etc.

And as for labels -- name me one European label besides Nuclear Blast, Season Of Mist and Century Media that become extremely successful over the last 10 years? I'd let you get away with Basick and that's pretty much it. In the US? Sumerian, Prosthetic, Goodfight/Ferret, Mediaskare, E1, Relapse, and I can go on and on.



I made a comment and you called me out by posting your CD collection and taking it personally, as if I care. Grow up.



Correct, but fortunately nobody here is doing that. All you've been doing is spouting half-truths and unbackable observations with no falsifiable, or even quantifiable examples. You make claims like "Amon Amarth's audience is different here" without proving it. Really? So emo kids and Wu Tang fans buy Amon Amarth and no metal kids do? Prove it. Don't pretend to know.

For the third time, if you're sad to see the bands and ideals that you prefer go away in favor for the new school, fine. But to say metal isn't doing well over here because your stuff isn't selling as well as Metal Blade's is not only contradictory, but completely arrogant. It's contradictory because you recognize that other metal bands and labels are vastly outselling yours, yet you believe metal in America suffers. It's arrogant, because your stuff is (in your own words) the "larger metal world" just because YOU like it more than what Metal Blade or Century Media puts out. Guess what, I have bad news for you: it's not the larger metal world. It's a secluded, niche metal world. The larger metal world is what Nuclear Blast, CM, Sumerian, Relapse, etc etc represents. And while there's NOTHING wrong with being a boutique label, own it or change your model -- as others have said in this thread.

Again it wasn't my CD collection. HAHA
Well I would just suggest maybe talking to some of the bands from here that go over there. Ok we can break it down from Europe in a whole to just a single country if you like. Ask the Widow guys how their German appearnce was. Maybe Tom can tell you what he told me about why they are going on tour in Europe.
As for sitting on my ass a complaining; complaining no, stating fact yes, sitting on my ass that I bust getting metal out there to the massive well that is what I do. So tell me what do you do buddy? (rhetorical)
As for bring up my bands and what I do well you have done this before in the past, guessing you have nothing else to bring up oppose to taking pot shots, damn you are good. But I am not talking about how well I do or don't do, kind of beside the point. But I'll tell you this it works for me and apparently people buy them. And I'm pretty sure once they are on the cover of the Rolling Stones (Dr. Hook reference) that you will probably buy into them as well. Though I'm sure you'll disagree now that your lame mainstream ass just got called out. So if you are ready to drop this then I suggest that we do. If not well I'm sure at some point we have or we will be at the same place sometime and we can discus it then. And before you go on that I'm passing internet threats no that was not a threat just suggesting we can talk shop. It usually comes acroos better that way. At this point I'm done with this so say what you will.