"Metal Lists" book and Divebomb UK bands...hahaha

[TribunalRecords]

ok you're on. I'll get this up as soon as I get a moment.
Off the top of my head Legend. There are very few NWOBHM bands that can even stand up to 'From the Fjorns'. And I would even say to some degree The Rods. Certainly would go with Justin's suggestion of TKO.
By 1978 America was focusing on more Slade / The Sweet influenced stuff but still there were "heavy metal" bands all over the US that were just not going to get the attention Britain was.
You and I also see that period differently too as we have disused before; you see that it begins and ends with the leaders of the movement where I on the other hand see that it went beyond Diamond Head and Angel Witck, though it was stretching in many cases.
Oh and 'Search for Sanity' is usually not the album being referred to when talking about Onslaught as a thrash band; the first two albums were almost like a different band.

I don't see it differently, we just argue over what bands would truly be considered a part of it and Grim Reaper will never be a part of that in my book.

As far as US audiences that is THE Onslaught album they are talking about. It was on a major label and videos were on MTV.

 

[Pelata]

Damn NWOBHM...Billy Joel had to become a pop star to survive...

 

[Justin G]

Rail were from Canada weren't they? Maybe I am wrong.

Also, how does winning MTV's first ever video contest allow them to be overshadowed? They had EVERYTHING going for them in USA, even moreso than NWOBHM bands.

I thought they were from Washington or Oregon.

 

[TribunalRecords]

I thought they were from Washington or Oregon.

SEATTLE!!! that is it. Manilla Road ain't sell no 200,000 on their own. I will call BS on that sales # too. The Hooters only sold 100,000 of their album back then before getting signed to Columbia Records. and The Hooters were F**KING massive in the Northeast. However, opening for Van Halen might have helped Rail too. But the CDs are mastered from vinyl. you sell that many LPs somebody keeps the masters. I am just sayin'.

from this video's description:
Rail's ARRIVAL was released at the end of 1980 on Dynasty Records, their own label. Having already proven themselves on a national tour without a record, RAIL hit the road again and subsequently sold over 200,000 copies of ARRIVAL, watching as their song "Hello" was added to radio playlists all over the Pacific Northwest. The high water mark for RAIL came in 1983 when their personal manager Maria Cooper submitted a video of "Hello" (against the band's wishes) for an MTV contest called the "Basement Tapes". Unsigned rock groups would compete with their videos with viewers calling in to vote on their favorite. RAIL's reservations about being thrust into the cattle call quickly evaporated when out of 40,000 videos submitted worldwide, "Hello" wins the preliminary rounds and eventually the Grand Prize of a recording contract with EMI Records.

 

[J. Golden]

I don't see it differently, we just argue over what bands would truly be considered a part of it and Grim Reaper will never be a part of that in my book.

As far as US audiences that is THE Onslaught album they are talking about. It was on a major label and videos were on MTV.

Rail I always thought was Canadian.
And Grim Reaper were just has much a part has Jaguar; Jaguar was actually your counter argument. HAHA Just so happens that both bands released their debut the same year.
I personally think the term "NWOBHM" use used way to loosely, and Diamond Head will always come to mind before Toad the Wet Sprocket but we are talking about a movement and not just the bands.

 

[J. Golden]

Damn NWOBHM...Billy Joel had to become a pop star to survive...

Just a little before the time we are talking about. HAHA
This is actually a great album though, the comedic factor of it allows it to be dismissed. It is really good psych/prog I have it myself.
Now the question this brings up is did Manowar get their look from Attila? Both were from New York. And a little over a decade after this album there would be a metal band in New York called Attila. Then Mongol Horde Records, what was going on up there?

 

[TribunalRecords]

Rail I always thought was Canadian.
And Grim Reaper were just has much a part has Jaguar; Jaguar was actually your counter argument. HAHA Just so happens that both bands released their debut the same year.
I personally think the term "NWOBHM" use used way to loosely, and Diamond Head will always come to mind before Toad the Wet Sprocket but we are talking about a movement and not just the bands.

Jaguar were actually a signed band in 1981 and had two singles released. then a debut album in 1983. Grim Reaper had two demos, one being for industry peeps, then got signed and released album in 83. so both of us knowing our NWOBHM history "singles" were very relevant and meant bands were established enough for people to take note. Like I said by 83 the scene was dying out, which also explains why Jaguar's second album is an AOR album. They knew it was over and were moving on.

 

[J. Golden]

Jaguar were actually a signed band in 1981 and had two singles released. then a debut album in 1983. Grim Reaper had two demos, one being for industry peeps, then got signed and released album in 83. so both of us knowing our NWOBHM history "singles" were very relevant and meant bands were established enough for people to take note. Like I said by 83 the scene was dying out, which also explains why Jaguar's second album is an AOR album. They knew it was over and were moving on.

Let's just set aside the fact that Grimmett was already kicking around that scene.
Our debate was first album, that was your deciding factor there was nothing about singles. Also I think a demo puts a band just as much in the running as a single, certainly thinking of the fact that Grimmett and Grim Reaper were still already known in this scene from those demos.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Let's just set aside the fact that Grimmett was already kicking around that scene.
Our debate was first album, that was your deciding factor there was nothing about singles. Also I think a demo puts a band just as much in the running as a single, certainly thinking of the fact that Grimmett and Grim Reaper were still already known in this scene from those demos.

I don't remember Jaguar being a lynchpin of my argument, you have a better memory than I. I do remember saying Grim Reaper weren't part of the NWOBHM.

And I will have to disagree on demo vs single being the same. Singles are basically demos anyway, but a single means you were signed or that you kicked out money to get it pressed yourselves, as in Diamond Head's case with the white album. A demo back then in a scene riddled with tons of bands (one of the reasons the scene died out) doesn't mean much. The equivalent of a deathcore band releasing a demo now. Doesn't mean diddly squat.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Just for shits and giggles, look how many one hit wonders are on this box set. Where is the Reaper?

 

[J. Golden]

If we agree that the years of the NWOBHM were between 78-83 then Grim Reaper are in; 'See You in Hell' was released in 1983. So regardless if they only made the tail end they would have still made it in.
.

 

[TempleOfBlood]

I always thought that the NWOBHM was over by the time METALLICA released an album.

 

[TribunalRecords]

If we agree that the years of the NWOBHM were between 78-83 then Grim Reaper are in; 'See You in Hell' was released in 1983. So regardless if they only made the tail end they would have still made it in.
.

I don't have a set parameter of time really but I know what bands were a part of it and what weren't.

 

[J. Golden]

I don't have a set parameter of time really but I know what bands were a part of it and what weren't.

guess it is all subjective.

 

[J. Golden]

I always thought that the NWOBHM was over by the time METALLICA released an album.

That actually would be a very good mark.
It is all up in the air; some people say Priest and Motorhead were part of it and bands like Heep ode the wave. Some people toss in Brit bands from 80 - 86 which is stretching it a bit. Then there is those who only accept a handful of bands to have been part of this like Maiden, Saxon, Def Leppard. I guess it all depends.
I'm going to go through some old Kerrang issue to see when they happened to stop using the term.

 

[J. Golden]

I don't have a set parameter of time really but I know what bands were a part of it and what weren't.

I seems I'm not the only one this side of the argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nwobhm

 

[Justin G]

Let's just set aside the fact that Grimmett was already kicking around that scene.

The debate isn't about the Grimace though. Nobody is arguing about Chateaux or Medusa. Grim Reaper came out when the NWOBHM was over. It wasn't a new wave anymore; it was just metal.

 

[Justin G]

I always thought that the NWOBHM was over by the time METALLICA released an album.

Sure, over by a couple of years. :Smokedev:

 

[TribunalRecords]

I seems I'm not the only one this side of the argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nwobhm

I don't consider Wiki a valid source for anything anymore considering I have seen how they edit and delete content.

 

[TribunalRecords]

The debate isn't about the Grimace though. Nobody is arguing about Chateaux or Medusa. Grim Reaper came out when the NWOBHM was over. It wasn't a new wave anymore; it was just metal.

exactly.