Metal midi drums?

[booyah14]

Alright I should say I have been looking everywhere for this answer and just simply cannot find it anywhere. I have posted on a few message boards already and no one can help for some reason. So I figured since i stalk around here a bit this was probably the best place to ask. I should say I have just started getting into recording. I have a modest little LE set up and have just been learning the basics for a few months. The computer that I bought used had BFD on it and Battery 2. I have just started to check them out since I feel I can handle it. But my question is this. How is everyone's workflow?

I mean it just seems like what I was thinking would take forever to do. Seems like a lot of work to run a pass through battery, then save it and import it into BFD, mess with those settings, then rewire into pro tools and then try to match this all up to my guitars? I did think about just going through BFD at the same tempo and throwing into Pro tools and then just sliding the hits around until they sounded more dead on, would this be a good option? I guess my trouble is really just getting started? So I figured you guys definitely work with samples a lot so what do you guys do? Any help would be great. Again, I'm not asking, "how do you do it", I just don't think I'm going about this the right way.

 

[guitarguru777]

I dunno if im understanding you correctly but it sounds like your recording your guitars 1st and then doing drums later. This is backard in my opinion. Doing a scratch take to a click is ok just for trying to get the drums to groove a bit more (I do this once in a while) but i normally program my drums first then lay down my guitars. After that i ususy move on to bass then solos then vocals.

I program all my drums using the Piano Roll in Sonar 4SPE and then use Battery or DFH for sounds.

But then again i could be understading you completely wrong ...heh

Da Fukn Guru

 

[booyah14]

Yes I do it backwards because I find it easier to put drums down after the fact. The problem is I can't play beats fast enough to do it in real time so I'm just not quite sure how to go about "programming" drums. See I'm using PT LE so it absolutely sucks for midi. Well I shouldn't say that, just that the few other programs I have used seem to be more user friendly. So anyone please enlighten me on how you set up your work flow, or even some pointers.

 

[gumplunger]

I don't understand the problem. Why can't you just record the guitars, program your drums on a midi track run through battery or bfd or whatever, and be done with it? I mean as long as you recorded to a click track, you shouldn't have to move stuff around to get it "on" or whatever.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

I use Pro tools LE too. the midi is fine that's no exuse What I'd reccomend doing if you need to lay down some guitar first is just play a one guitar version of the song to a click and then put in drums, then scratch the original guitar and put your layered guitars over it. Moreover, if you need to do the guitars first the songs aren't worked out enough to record yet anyway. I had this problem recantly. I just got to excited about a song, recorded it and then I ended up changing a lot and had to redo it.

So here's my whole process, I have a midi track with the sounds assigned to DFH2 and have the overheads soloed so that when I put notes into the piano roll and play them back I don't get missed samples (I do if I have all the tracks playing) and when I'm done I solo each part and bounce the audio to disc, then once it's audio it won't crash when I play all the parts at once and I play guitar along with it, then bass, then vocals. It works well for me! Good luck!

 

[booyah14]

Ok I think here is the problem. I was under the impression that pt does not have a piano roll, or were you talking about DKFH? I should say I've sold a good amount of "hip hop" beats to people so I know how to program basic midi drums. But now I want to start doing this for my true music and I'm just not sure. Do you guys actually play these parts on a pad? Pencil it in? Put a basic beat down then move hits around? So I guess this is the real question.

 

[George]

There's a program called Finale that my bands songwriter used to write the drum parts into midi. The problem is that you need to know how to write sheet music to use it to your advantage. Once we had the songs written it is very easy to take that and put it into Cubase (which is what were using) and start playing the parts over it. We use Drum Kit From Hell to play the midi drums and it's working great. I wish I had some examples for you, but they are on my bandmates computer right now.

 

[booyah14]

Yes any help would be awesome man.

 

[dreamcatcher]

Lately I've been using patterns programmed into my drum machine in real time, organized into a song structure, then simply recording the MIDI into my DAW. Then I put down guitars and stuff, then go back into the MIDI scroll and add in fills, crashes, whatever to suit the song. Then, prolly for no good reason, I record the drum machine as audio onto the track. Well, I guess the reason is then I can cut them up a bit here and there if I need to open up some spaces or something.

This will change once I use up all the stuff programmed in my drum machine, though. I think.

 

[booyah14]

So I'm trying to understand. You are saying you put down the kick and snare in real time and then go in later and throw in the crashes, hi hat, fills and all of that after the fact? With the drums being so fast I'm just not quite sure how to do this the most efficient way. This seems like a pretty good way to get it started.

 

[gumplunger]

Ok I think here is the problem. I was under the impression that pt does not have a piano roll, or were you talking about DKFH? I should say I've sold a good amount of "hip hop" beats to people so I know how to program basic midi drums. But now I want to start doing this for my true music and I'm just not sure. Do you guys actually play these parts on a pad? Pencil it in? Put a basic beat down then move hits around? So I guess this is the real question.

Pro Tools has a piano roll.

 

[Andy Sneap]

Im baffled by this its so easy, just create a midi track, assign it to battery with a decent kit loaded, draw your basic pattern over a couple of bars and just cut and paste, no need to worry about playing in real time.

 

[Seizure.]

yeah, indeed.. or DFH in my case hehehe.

 

[Kenny Lee]

He...he... everyone has different ways that work best for them. I've used P.T.L.E. and it's not that bad, there's just better out there. Maybe P.T.L.E. 7 has fixed the midi dilemma with Pro tools:Spin:
but anyways. I do the drums first (ALWAYS to a click)
1. Usually kicks and snare beats first thru out the whole tune. Where I know there will be a fill or stalls, I leave it blank and come back to that part. A lot of copying and pasting (Just re-work the velocites so it doesn't sound like a machine!)
2. Then hi hats and cymbals/ tom fills
3. Break downs
4. Then I go over it again and nudge things around (NOT A BUNCH) but just enough to sound have way 'real'. I've seen many drummers on electronic kits and these are kick ass drummers and none of them had each and every hit right on the button!
5. Track the guitars
6. Come back to the midi tracks and re-work the velocities.
7. Then track the bass.
Yeah, I pencil in pretty much everything, sometimes I'll use the ReMote 25 for cymbals and hi hats.
example of my madness
I use Logic Pro now and it has a lot of things you can do that I couldn't do in P.T.L.E. pre version 7.

good luck man, and yes I'm available for country/ jazz/ polka/ blues/ and even pop rock

 

[booyah14]

Ok sorry for the confusion. I was seeing if there was any way around penciling it in. Sorry for this mess. So I guess I'm just stuck doing it this way then. I do like the idea of just bass and snare first though. Good tip, thanks!

 

[gumplunger]

Ok sorry for the confusion. I was seeing if there was any way around penciling it in. Sorry for this mess. So I guess I'm just stuck doing it this way then. I do like the idea of just bass and snare first though. Good tip, thanks!

Most people pencil it in with the help of copy and paste. Get used to it.

 

[dreamcatcher]

Ok sorry for the confusion. I was seeing if there was any way around penciling it in. Sorry for this mess. So I guess I'm just stuck doing it this way then. I do like the idea of just bass and snare first though. Good tip, thanks!

Yeah, I just pencil in the fills, even snare fills.

The inefficiency of it makes me hafta carefully choose where fills are needed to serve the song.

Course, I have been known to cut and paste these fills and put them in more than one place on a track... even without modifiying them

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

A little "random" never hurts either