cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
just checked the new mp3's and omg that's a fucking awful mix, drums sound so thin it's unbearable
DFH vs. BFD
- Thread starter Niels
- Start date
cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
lmao mike you hear the bit in the metal demo when the dist guitars come in? i turned it off at that point cos i didnt want to pollute my ears with shit any longer
cameltoe said:
That's very much possible. If you want the rest of the cymbals all processed through one OH routing, but you just want a separate ride channel, you can split the OHs, route all the other cymbals through one group channel, and process the ride as you want.
Yeah Steve, I listened to all of them, they were all crap.
I performed an experiment earlier. I gathered my 5 different drummer friends together at the studio earlier and I got them all in the control room. And after we all talked and chilled for a while, I go, "hey guys, I need some drummer opinions", so they all kinda stepped forward, lol. I had previously downloaded all of the BFD and DFHS demo tracks I could find on the net, about 15 total, and I renamed them with numbers. I handed them all a little post-it pad thingy, and a pen. I made the demo's into a playlist on WMP, and I made the display real big. Then I told them, "ok, write down the tracks that sound like programmed drums, and write down the tracks that sound like real drums." The I hit play, and let all 15 demos ring out. Then I asked them to let me have their papers. I took them and laid them all face down in a stack on the console desk. Then I re-arranged the playlist all out of order (numerically), and I hit play and minimized the player real fast. I controlled WMP from the media keys on the keyboard from this point, and as I played each track, I asked them all to tell me if they thought it sounded real, or like a program. I wrote down the unanimous results. Then I brought back up the screen. I wrote down a check mark in two columns for each track, one for realistic, one for robot-ish.
The votes were unanimous. Every single DFHS demo, including the original one my friend did, got an "It's Real" vote, on both passes. Every single BFD clip, UNANIMOUSLY, got voted as a program. Now, these guys are all superb drummers. They all have high-end DW, Sonor, Gretsch, and Fibes kits. Top of the line Zildjian and Sabian cymbals sets, the sets that cost $1k and up, premium hardware, $500 thrones...I mean these guys are serious as fuck drummers. And they all voted every single DFHS clip to be real, and every single BFD clip to be programmed. And, just like my original clip, they argued with me after I revealed the results, that the DFHS was not a program, but a couple of real session drummers.
Now, before you say anything, no, I picked very nice BFD clips of similar style and programming intelligence. You can just hear the differences. There are only single handed hits, not left/right like DFHS. So the robotic repetition is there. I just thought I would post this for you all to see.
~006
I performed an experiment earlier. I gathered my 5 different drummer friends together at the studio earlier and I got them all in the control room. And after we all talked and chilled for a while, I go, "hey guys, I need some drummer opinions", so they all kinda stepped forward, lol. I had previously downloaded all of the BFD and DFHS demo tracks I could find on the net, about 15 total, and I renamed them with numbers. I handed them all a little post-it pad thingy, and a pen. I made the demo's into a playlist on WMP, and I made the display real big. Then I told them, "ok, write down the tracks that sound like programmed drums, and write down the tracks that sound like real drums." The I hit play, and let all 15 demos ring out. Then I asked them to let me have their papers. I took them and laid them all face down in a stack on the console desk. Then I re-arranged the playlist all out of order (numerically), and I hit play and minimized the player real fast. I controlled WMP from the media keys on the keyboard from this point, and as I played each track, I asked them all to tell me if they thought it sounded real, or like a program. I wrote down the unanimous results. Then I brought back up the screen. I wrote down a check mark in two columns for each track, one for realistic, one for robot-ish.
The votes were unanimous. Every single DFHS demo, including the original one my friend did, got an "It's Real" vote, on both passes. Every single BFD clip, UNANIMOUSLY, got voted as a program. Now, these guys are all superb drummers. They all have high-end DW, Sonor, Gretsch, and Fibes kits. Top of the line Zildjian and Sabian cymbals sets, the sets that cost $1k and up, premium hardware, $500 thrones...I mean these guys are serious as fuck drummers. And they all voted every single DFHS clip to be real, and every single BFD clip to be programmed. And, just like my original clip, they argued with me after I revealed the results, that the DFHS was not a program, but a couple of real session drummers.
Now, before you say anything, no, I picked very nice BFD clips of similar style and programming intelligence. You can just hear the differences. There are only single handed hits, not left/right like DFHS. So the robotic repetition is there. I just thought I would post this for you all to see.
~006
Kenny Lee
Member
YES, L/R hand hits are a MUST!!!! I've used them when doing super fast (John Longstreth) styled one hand rolls A.K.A. Snare Blasts! Kind of a secret weapon I guess..... many programmers think they have to use just the left or just the right hand hits for snare blasts. Use them bothcameltoe said:
For kicks you can off set the right kick / left kick for more realism too. Want the kicks more in your face, but not super loud? Nudge them forward 10-15ms!! There's tons of kick ass tricks for programming drums. I LOVE IT!!! Quoting Fredrik....."If you have D.F.H.S. you don't need a drummer!" Hahahahaha....... He told me that while we were standing next to Tomas one night!!!! Hahahahaha.... Tomas didn't find it very funny
But, back on the bfd vs. D.F.H. ......wow, I too didn't know bfd didn't have L/R hand hits.
Kenny Lee said:YES, L/R hand hits are a MUST!!!! I've used them when doing super fast (John Longstreth) styled one hand rolls A.K.A. Snare Blasts! Kind of a secret weapon I guess..... many programmers think they have to use just the left or just the right hand hits for snare blasts. Use them both
For kicks you can off set the right kick / left kick for more realism too. Want the kicks more in your face, but not super loud? Nudge them forward 10-15ms!! There's tons of kick ass tricks for programming drums. I LOVE IT!!! Quoting Fredrik....."If you have D.F.H.S. you don't need a drummer!" Hahahahaha....... He told me that while we were standing next to Tomas one night!!!! Hahahahaha.... Tomas didn't find it very funny
But, back on the bfd vs. D.F.H. ......wow, I too didn't know bfd didn't have L/R hand hits.
Exactly! It's all the little details that will help make it sound more realistic, regardless of which samples you're using. I used to spend ages on details when I was just using shitty GM synth drums. Some of my friends thought it was a real performance, just done using all triggering (like an e-kit pretty much) and very shit samples.
But yeah, things like.... if you hit a floor tom and a snare at the same time... don't just drop them right on top of each other. Offset one by a few ms, and it'll really beef the sound up. It doesn't have to sound like a frickin' flam or anything, but just that tiny bit of separation really helps.
Same goes when I'm sequencing blasts. How many drummers do you think can really do flat out 16th note double kick at 280bpm while doing 8ths on the snare and hats, with both hands hitting at EXACTLY the same time, every time? Pfffttt... you don't have to make the drum track sound like it was played by a mountain goat, but these tiny little offsets really add to the sound.
Yes it can take a fair bit of time to work on these tiny details, but once you get the hang of it, it's not too bad. It's a small price to pay for the joy of not having to work with a fuckin' drummer.
This thread seems to have become a 'DFHS' kills 'BFD' thread. (due to 006's posts?)
The more I read here, the more I am convinced it was the right decision to order DFHS!
@mutant: I tried the free version of the NS Kit, but it didn't convince me. I don't know what the full version offers, but I disliked that the free version only had three Toms - tried to pitch them, but it didn't work so well. I also felt that the wires of the Snare drum are a little bit too loud! (imo)
Niels
The more I read here, the more I am convinced it was the right decision to order DFHS!
@mutant: I tried the free version of the NS Kit, but it didn't convince me. I don't know what the full version offers, but I disliked that the free version only had three Toms - tried to pitch them, but it didn't work so well. I also felt that the wires of the Snare drum are a little bit too loud! (imo)
Niels
heres a little thing I programmed last night with bfd dlx.....
sonar snare
yamaha kick and toms
No processing at all (except l2 to raise the volume a bit)
http://us-clan.killerpings.com/publicfiles/camelToe/31106.mp3
sonar snare
yamaha kick and toms
No processing at all (except l2 to raise the volume a bit)
http://us-clan.killerpings.com/publicfiles/camelToe/31106.mp3
cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
Tym_ex
Tymon
Hmm, fun with toms...
Light compression on the master.
http://us-clan.killerpings.com/publicfiles/camelToe/toms.mp3
Light compression on the master.
http://us-clan.killerpings.com/publicfiles/camelToe/toms.mp3
Niels said:This thread seems to have become a 'DFHS' kills 'BFD' thread. (due to 006's posts?)
The more I read here, the more I am convinced it was the right decision to order DFHS!
Niels
ToonTrack should hire me as a spokesman for their products.
~006
cameltoe said:
Yeah I dunno about that. I've not had any real experience with BFD myself, so I don't go around crapping all over it... but that didn't sound very realistic to me. The snares and cymbals in particular I think sounded quite fake IMO. Dunno if that's your programming or the samples themselves though.
EtherForBreakfast
Hamster Style
- Jun 19, 2005
- 1,012
- 0
- 36
the wrong way, do not take this... but this joint is FAR from bein' off the hinges, player...
one word comes to mind - ROBOTIC.
then - STIFF.
personally i prefer DFHS over BFD and I have used both extensively.
BFD is much easier to work with, but soundwise DFHS owns.
one word comes to mind - ROBOTIC.
then - STIFF.
personally i prefer DFHS over BFD and I have used both extensively.
BFD is much easier to work with, but soundwise DFHS owns.
okay was fucking around....its not very long...lol.....gots to go so I kinda just rushed through it..
http://us-clan.killerpings.com/publicfiles/camelToe/messin.wav
Im a gonna fuck with this a bit more later...
It is so hard to get the rolls to sound right....wish it had right and left hits..>!!!!
http://us-clan.killerpings.com/publicfiles/camelToe/messin.wav
Im a gonna fuck with this a bit more later...
It is so hard to get the rolls to sound right....wish it had right and left hits..>!!!!
