Metal: US and the World

[Jibrille]

Something interesting for Silver, Gold, Platinum, & Diamond record sales for various countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_album


You mention population relation and yet Germany needs 100k albums for Gold and US needs 500k (5x more) albums for Gold. So records need to sell at a higher rate per population in the US compared to Germany. Singles aren't even worth looking at in the US. People don't buy them. Singles still do fairly well in Europe because of all the bonus songs they add on.

And yeah, this may not really matter in the grand picture of this topic but I'm kind of doped up on drugs from surgery this morning so my mind isn't fully functional.

 

[adaher]

I've looked at those same charts a few times and although Eminem and Shakira and David Hasselhoff tend to dominate, at the very least we do see metal bands get on their from time to time, especially the album charts.

Last time I checked Finland's charts, Tarja had a single up there, although I doubt it was a metal song. And Nightwish, Stratovarius, and Edguy have routinely had their albums chart in the top 50 in many countries(Nightwish has been #1 in Finland).

And let's face it, if you want to see a metal show, you'll have much better luck going to a local European club than to an American club. If you check the tour dates of all these bands it's 90% European shows.

And then there's Wacken, which is like THE festival for metalheads.

 

[Agonal]

I think its not so much the popularity of metal in other countries its the quality of bands that come from those countries.

 

[Magius]

My only statement on this subject is:

Im sure if we were to bring proportions and overall population into the equation that Europe would win in a landslide.

USA = 296 million people
Germany = 83 Million
Sweden = 10 million
Norway = 4.5 millon
Italy = 58 million
These are rough figures, rounded UP to the nearest million [sans Italy, 58.1] (courtesy google.com, naturally).

Now, with these theories- with USA's population being roughly 3.75:1 over Germany, that a band that plays for 1000 people in Germany would have to draw 3,750 for the markets to be the same in terms of popularity/strength.

I scrapped my post on this, because you've made the point. It's the per Capita concentration of fans within the population, not the total number that make the difference. Well done.

 

[Cheiron]

I think your partially correct. However, if the underground was deceptively large (due to being spread out), record sales should reflect this. Unfortunately, record sales for Metal are quite low in the U.S.

Zod

Don't follow metal record sales. People buy metal on the Internet. These aren't necessarily reflected, at least not regionally.

 

[Meanmistreator]

I've noticed that too. I believe the Euro stuff goes over better in other countries, so I believe that's where the misconception for us comes from on this board. I have to admit, I'm guilty of thinking Germany is a haven of metal, but in reality, it probably isn't.

Another thing that I find strange is that bands like Within Temptation, Nightwish, and Edguy can play the same festivals that bands like Staind and Slipknot play in Europe. That gives me the impression that the average European metal fan is a little more open minded than our average U.S. metal fan. That's just a theory of mine and by no means am I insulting anyone. I'm a proud American myself, but we're discussing music taste, not patriotism here.

That's funny you said that because I'm always saying Germany produces the best musicians, bands, singers, whatever. And if not Germany, then Europe in general. Being from the U.S., most of what I listen to comes from another country. I think D.C. Cooper said that his performance at the "Pre-Party" last year, was only his second performance in the U.S. That say's a great deal. Every great American prog bands that anybody here listens to, had to go over seas to make any money. Bands like Symphony X, Fates Warning, Savatage, Lance King (with both BOP and Pyromaze). You get the point. If it wasn't for guys like Glenn and Ken Golden, we would be F**ked (listening to Hip Hop).

 

[General Zod]

Don't follow metal record sales. People buy metal on the Internet. These aren't necessarily reflected, at least not regionally.

I've often heard musicians refer to what they sell in the US as opposed to the rest of the world. It's to that which I'm referring.

Zod

 

[FatesFan]

Here is some information that I found about Nightwish as an example of why I am not sold on the fact that we are not that different than other countries.

"Once" peaked the Billboard Eurochart
Nightwish making it big time


The Billboard Eurochart ranked twice Nightwish's new effort "Once" as the best-selling album in Europe in July. The Old Continent firmly in their pocket, Nightwish are making the next steps on their U.S. tour, to be launched on August 20.

So far "Once" has topped the album charts in Finland, Germany, Norway, Slovakia, Hungary and Greece. In Germany, for instance, it sold gold with 100.000 copies in less than two weeks. One of the latest reports says that the main single "Nemo" hit the Brazilian Video Charts at #1.

In February 2005, Nightwish won five awards in Emma-Gala (Finnish Grammy). Among the others they won awards for "The Band of the Year" and "The Best Selling Album of the Year".


If metal was so "underground" over there why in the world are Nightwish getting 5 Grammys? Underground music isn't normally chart toppers but yet they obviously have topped the charts even though they may not currrently reside on them.

Oh yeah and then there is MASTERPLAN.

The band got the "European Border Breakers" award in 2004 from the European Commission.
What is the European Commission you ask. http://www.answers.com/topic/european-commission

That doesn't sound so underground or remotely equal to what goes on here.

 

[Jibrille]

Yes, and I can say that I helped those numbers in Finland not the US.

 

[urinalcakemix]

bump for an interesting thread.

 

[13ShadesofGray]

In the Netherlands earlier this year, Marcel (Coenen) and I discussed ProgPower US as compared to ProgPower Europe while we were driving past the venue . Europe show capacity is between 700-750, if I remember correctly. That shocked me, as I had thought it was as big, if not bigger, than PPUSA. When asked why the festival wasn't bigger, Marcel had a couple of interesting things to say (quoting from memory):

It's not as big a deal out here... there's some kind of well known metal band, prog/power... whatever, playing pretty much anywhere any night of the week, so it's not as unusual here as it is in The States.

He also mentioned that the excitement and exclusivity of PPUSA is one of the reasons why European bands are interested in and love to be involved. The energy of the whole experience is just *different*.

 

[Tungarknivor]

I gotta say that i do feel the european bands make better metal music than the american bands *at the moment*. It seems to me that alot of the US bands have forgotten about melody in music as where most of the european bands might be heavy but still have alot of melody in the music. Might have something to do with the use of keyboards in alot of the music, which i dig.

Anyways we should all be thankfull all these GREAT european bands are coming to Georgia at one time and to one place, woohoo JORN is coming to the USA and i'm gonna see him.

 

[St Enigma]

Playing non-melodic whaevercore noise and calling it metal really doesn't take too much talent, learning and efforts. That attitude-playing was inherited from the punk era, when everyone who could twang and thrash guitar and shout "fuck" loud enough was considered a musician.


What makes a big diffrence is that in Europe metal in general is based less on attitude and more on players' talent and skills. Playing metal is not something one learns in a carage with a bunch of guys skipping the school in the afternoons. Unlike (hard)rock players those who start playing metal usually put a lot of time and efforts in education; taking lessons, learning music theory and mastering their instrument(s). Many of them turn into professional musicians who can and also do play other styles of music in several bands and projects. Attitude is not handicapping them from doing whatever they want.

Higher music education, even a degree in music is not rare among European metal musicians. Many players have studied in music schools and conservatories, even in universities. Classical background among metal players seem to be quite common. Many metal musicians have started going piano/violin lessons very early and they know music theory, which is an eneourmous advantage when playing and composing any style music.

I think there is a reason why metal is widely accepted and especially melodic metal hits the charts in Europe. What I wrote above might give you an idea what it might be.

 

[Jim LotFP]

Playing non-melodic whaevercore noise and calling it metal really doesn't take too much talent, learning and efforts. That attitude-playing was inherited from the punk era, when everyone who could twang and thrash guitar and shout "fuck" loud enough was considered a musician.

What makes a big diffrence is that in Europe metal in general is based less on attitude and more on players' talent and skills. Playing metal is not something one learns in a carage with a bunch of guys skipping the school in the afternoons.

Well that's a very biased opinion on the subject.

It all comes from England, if you want to break it down to roots.

If you want to look at heavy metal history as a whole, Venom has just as much an impact as Iron Maiden. Both British. Motörhead and Sabbath were too.

Europe also gave us Bathory and Hellhammer, who influenced quite a bit on their own. And Sodom and Kreator. The legacy of the Europeans is just as brutal, if not more so, than the Americans.

If we're talking current material... what's your basis of comparison? American chart-toppers versus European metal bands? American chart-toppers versus European chart-toppers? American metal bands versus European metal bands?

As far as learning to play metal... many have learned to play it by fucking around in their garage with some friends. Whether you like it or not is another matter. But I'd rather hear someone playing metal because that's all they want to play, than hear someone with a "musical education" fall into it just because they needed to find something to play.

I think there is a reason why metal is widely accepted and especially melodic metal hits the charts in Europe.

Because they use the same friggin melodies that the pop musicians do. Because they use standard song structures. Not even trying to be a smartass when I say that. Not to mention the large media conglomerates that dominate US media don't have an exact equivalent in Europe, so the smaller media sources are all a bit bigger fish in a pond with no fishermen. The local media loves the local bands and the local record labels presenting them. And a rock/metal scene happening at the top of the charts doesn't do so many favors for those not plugged into the system's pipeline, either. When so much is available to people without looking, it seems there aren't so many people looking around to see what else there is.