Metallica just became more awesome tonight

yeah i've seen the metallica tab book too. good work.

seriously, that kind of "attention" is just metal/music 101. i see that sort of music progression with chords in all kinds of maiden and priest. in lots of bands.

i agree it's a great midsection, but it really didn't need to be in that song.
 
One works by totally separating the soft and heavy parts while making a story.
MOP? NO. they made a rocking thrashy metal song and totally fucking blew it by throwing in some random, retarded acoustic passage thing in the middle. stupid move. same thing with battery, fight fire, damage inc.
dipshit intros. DO NOT WANT.


There was nothing random about that mid-section -- it created a melodic and tragic contrast to the two outer portions of the song -- such a three-part structure is not unusual, at least in classical -- and they transitioned into this section with the utmost fluidity; instead of many bands nowadays, like Iced Earth, who abruptly shift into some lame acoustic passage which has almost nothing, harmonically, to do with the previous material; the mid-section to Master of Puppets retains all the main instruments (except vocals), and rearranges them for expressive and dynamic contrast. There are still distorted guitars, bass, and drums, just all very carefully arranged. Most bands will suddenly drop everything and rely on a sole acoustic guitar, which Metallica didn't even use in this case. Even so -- even though the sonorities of this section are very different -- it still retains a musical unity with the outer sections, through its continued use of E harmonic minor, and through its retained chord progression, played distorted and palm-muted over some heavy E power chords later.

I love Metallica solely for the high quality of the music they wrote, not their influence. Nothing, before or since, has been as harmonically, melodically, and structurally fluid or ambitious. Other bands have much more technical musicians, but the music is never as clearly composed, in which every bit of material has a clear connection to the rest -- nothing arbitrary. They wrote the most complete melodies -- melodies which explore the many tensions of the scale, which pay attention to the chordal implications, and even play with them. That mid-section you condemn has a clean guitar passage more carefully worked through, more chordally ambitious than anything else in the genre. James created a seemless fusion of 5 arpeggiated chords, all which move carefully up to the dominant, then effortlessly right back to the tonic -- at which point, the twin guitar harmony begins, on the anticipated tonic, perfectly introduced. Most bands now might arpeggiate one or two chords, and usually these have absolutely nothing to do with the harmonic implications of the material before or after -- just chucked in there for cheap effect -- without any attention paid to the various tensions of the scale and key. Such a band is Trivium. There are exceptions, but none of them places these progressions so carefully and tastefully in the middle of an even more elaborate structure. Other bands may even use many more chords, Jazz fusion bands, but none of these progressions has that same fluidity and melodicism -- they seem like exercises to practice over.

I haven't heard any other band with the same meticulousness of detail, the same structural approach. Perhaps Iron Maiden, but they always felt very impersonal and cartoony. But I won't exclude them -- they may have the same degree of craft.

As for influence, I would say Slayer are the greatest influence on underground metal, whereas Metallica most influenced the more popular strains of metal/hardrock (System of a Down, creed, Trivium, Shadows Fall). And if you refuse them this, they at least made certain techniques very popular, which they had adopted and brought to highest perfection.

Rust in Peace also has the same sort of clever and fluid song-writing, but the overall structures are not nearly as dynamic, if they even exist at all. His riffing style is much less imitated than James Hetfield's in my opinion.

If there are bands out there which you believe share these qualities I have outlined, then please recommend them. I am desperate for carefully constructed metal.
another such band is nevermore, or sepultura and gojira for deathier version of that stuff, and maybe meshuggah.

I totally agree with your post, but hetfield, never knew any theory, that was cliff....
 
I don't think any other band has united ALL of those elements so well, and none with such over-arching structures. Rust in Peace, as I said, can be just as fluid (Tornado of Souls), but nowhere is there that massive architecture.

Maiden come closest probably...but Priest not at all.

Dude, pretty much any progressive/power metal band beats the living shit out of your sacred Meatholeca. Give Symphony X, Adagio, or even Opeth a good listen. All have a natural feel to them, nothing sounds forced.
 
hell, look at blind guardian. even their old stuff showcases a lot of their ambition. but take some of their most recent stuff? you may not love the style but they put a lot of work into that.

priest's boys are seriously accomplished and know what they're doing. you can tell in all the things they release. before the dawn? dreamer deceiver? it's so subtlety brilliant. hell, even their cock rock stuff has it in there.
 
Dude, pretty much any progressive/power metal band beats the living shit out of your sacred Meatholeca. Give Symphony X, Adagio, or even Opeth a good listen. All have a natural feel to them, nothing sounds forced.
They actually sound forced far more often than they don't.
 
Now, lets get this straight, i chose Nevermore any day over Metallica, but metallica are still fucking amazing.
Narcosynthesis flows really damn well if you ask me, same goes for born and especially final product, a future uncertain, and EoR title track. No arbitrary riff transitions whatsoever in those songs if you ask me. The arbitrary riff transition were part of the pre dead hear loomis style. In terms of flow Dead heart is miles above DnB or PoE. I'm talking about the flow of the songs, not the albums themselves.

I agree with retarded penguin, prog metal has a tendency to sound forced, because they try very hard to sound proggy or epic in general. Opeth are cool, but they get boring after a while. I haven't listened to them since April. They are good though, if tomorrow they would play in Seattle i would go see them.
IMHO, Metallica's music sounds so good, just like nevermore's, sepultura's, gojira, and earlier meshugah is that when they wrote it they had absolutely no strings attached, they didn't say that is too thrashy, or too mellow or etc, so it came natural. appart from ripping of metallica a lot, another example of great transitions is on Sepultura's desperate cry. Even the riff exposion sounds good, and fits there, and hits you in the head, followed by an extremely catchy and groovy softer part, that doesn't sound mellow at all, but melodic
 
Give Symphony X, Adagio, or even Opeth a good listen. All have a natural feel to them, nothing sounds forced.

Opeth meander aimlessly for 10 minutes, and Symphony X use the same shitty fake-heavy chug riffs for their entire songs, on top of bland atmospheric keyboard sounds. Also, I can just watch a Michael Angelo instructional video if I want to hear Romeo's soloing.

You asshat! Go listen to The Odyssey or any Adagio album, you will be proven wrong. Whatever, your into thrash so there probably isn't any hope.
 
don't know how you can't see the ambition in priest. those first few albums were really something.

but want some great crafted music? look into their influences(metallica). lots of their epicness can be found in mercyful fate for instance. angel witch's first is some amazing music. diamond head really created some magic. you really need to dig with nwobhm, though, cause a band might be playing cock rock one track, and some of the most awesome proto thrash the next.
chromatose and i constantly tout the beauty of fates warning (awaken the guardian), and anything mike scalzi and john cobbett touch.
i think personally that twisted tower dire's first album is nearly perfect in every way. like golden era maiden. doomsword have moments of indescribable passion, imo. first two albums mostly. i think manilla road's lead guy really gives a shit about what he's doing with his band; it's all about finding an era you like though. i'm consistently impressed with pagan's mind's quality. even though it seems a bit simplistic.

it's a bit unorthodox and not metal per se, i think my chemical romance's second album is really a treat musically.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
fuck canada!
"Lets play this riff in 78/97 time for the lulz!" - John Petrucci
you are obviously gay as dream theater is obviously the best band in the world. John petrucci is god! lolz

As I said before, Nevermore are most fluid when they are conventional, which basically encompasses the entire DHIADW album. However, when they go for elaborate introductions, break-downs, or outros, that’s when the arbitrary material surfaces.

No, I hate thrash – probably the most boring genre of metal there is. Metallica completely transcended the classification. Even their most conformable album, Kill ‘em All, is way more interesting than anything by Testament or Death Angel. Alex Skolnick’s brilliant solos are the only redeeming value of the former band.
actually you are wrong on the fact that testament is boring. Testament is awesome, especially the gahtering, demonic, and the legacy. Skolnick is a great soloist, but in general thrash that sticks to thrash is boring, sodom or destruction for example (although those are great live)

Actually the songs on TGE have the right balance between amazing flow and creative structures. Final product, acid words, a future uncertain, and the psalm of lydia, especially the psalm of lydia and final product. TGE is just the natural evolution from dead heart, combining aspects from both eras (6 and 7 string stuff)
 
I think Metal had a great degree of craft -- yes, perhaps basic music theory craft, but you really don't need much more, unless you go into counterpoint or serialism -- up until about the 1990s. Metallica basically took all this metal craftsmanship and brought the intensity, power, and epicness to the next level; however, a similar degree of craftsmanship did exist before. So I will concede that those older bands probably had the same skill, but were just not as extreme. [/qoute] + infinity
The Sound of Perserverence is a perfect example of how badly out of hand random riff assemblage can become.
agreed, the sound of persevearance is the worst Death album. Easily, doesn't flow that welll, and very repetitive. I am gonna say that it is more repetitive than St.anger. Symbolic and spiritual healing are SOOO MUCH better
 
yeah, don't get fooled by production value. just because it has more distortion doesn't make it more intense or anything, really. just turn up your stereo and appreciate how fucking angry and intense early priest and nwobhm was.

thrash isn't supposed to be about technicality really. that's why metallica walked a bit more on the power metal side of things.
thrash is supposed to be dirty, angry, and unstoppable. motorhead on crack. sodom and destruction ruuuule.
 
thrash is supposed to be dirty, angry, and unstoppable. motorhead on crack. sodom and destruction ruuuule.
agreed, and that is why thrash is awesome live, but on the record it gets boring fast with a few exceptions like testament and sepultura (they are kinda in the death/thrash thingy, especially with arise, and more with thrash/groove/hardcore on chaos ad)
 
also, i know exactly what you mean by random riff placement. i think i mentioned it earlier. that's the problem. metallica reached into music that really was into it and although metallica were somewhat savvy in that respect, they lacked something that didn't get it to transfer to the next generation.