Micke Oretoft, if that is his real name.

So Anders you finally tell ”your truth” now, after almost 4 years of silence.

As it seems that you people on this forum are intrested to hear of what really happened between me and Katatonia and that you people actually care about it. I have finally decided to put this to rest once and for all by telling you my story of the whole thing.Take it or leave it.

To start with I can tell you all that neither Anders or Jonas had the guts to tell me straight to my face that I was kicked out from the band .And I haven´t got a really ”good” explanation as to why, until I saw this forum today.

I remember that I had a conversation by the phone with Anders some weeks before I was kicked out.I hadn´t heard a word from him in long time and the booked time for Sunlight studios ( feb or march 1999) draw closer and closer.I asked him if we would go into the studio as planned and what was really happening with the band.I sensed that something wasn´t right.He said that the situation with both Katatonia and his personal life was so fucked up at the moment that it was highly unlikely that there would be a new Katatonia album recorded.He said that if they would go into the studio it would be just him and Jonas doing it all by themselves, cause there wouldn´t be enough time to present/ rehearse the new material for both me and Fredrik.He said that if this recording would happen neither me or Fredrik would participate in it, but we would rehearse the songs to go on tour afterwards. I just said ”no problem it´s your band, do as you like”.Before we ended the conversation I said ”keep me informed of what happens” and Anders said ”yes sure I will do that”.

Some weeks after this conversation I got to know from the news section on the official Katatonia webpage that I wasn´t a member of the band any longer.I even got to know that they had signed a recordcontract with Peaceville Records and that the whole band were in the studio working with the album that later became "Tonight´s Decision".
I really didn´t care about the fact that I wasn´t in the band anymore (I had other things at the time to focus my mind on), but something that made me so goddamn angry was the fact that they didn´t dared to say this to my face in the first place and to tell me what the problem really was. ”Så där jävla fegt liksom”

The first person I confronted this with was with quite a nervous Jonas and he just said ” ohh I thought that Anders had talked with you abou this”. No I said and explained exactly what Anders had said to me on the phone and Jonas said ”well, this is the last thing we do we with Katatonia ever, there won´t be any tour or anything afterwards.Jonas finished the conversaton with”Talk to Anders cause I don´t have anything to do with this”.When I finally after a very very long time got the chance to confront Anders about what Jonas had told me he said ”It´s not just me in the band you know, Jonas is as much responsible for things as I am. When I asked him the reason to why I was kicked out and what the problem was he answered that ”no matter what, but Katatonia is and will always be a fucked up band”.Anders didn´t said a word to me about the so called ”secrets” that he recently revealed in this forum.

Some comments about my performance on the Discouraged Ones album.
Yes, I agree with the fact that it isn´t the best bassplaying captured on a record, but in my point of view there were circumstances around this event that more than in one way effected the result.

I. I got to know with a very short notice that they wanted me to play on the album ( at this time I was not a full member of the band) We had one session at Anders place were we went through some of the songs that ended up on "Discouraged Ones", not all of them though.Then I got a demo tape with the songs that we had gone trough recorded with a drummachine and a very basic guitar to rehearse with. We never rehearsed the songs as a whole band. I actually had no clue whatsoever what the songs would sound like in the end.So I never got the chance to ”become one” with the them from the beginning.

II. The experience in Sunlight studios was just reprehensible(July 1997). This was the 2nd time I was in a professional studio to record, so I was a little bit nervous when I got there.There was absolutely no atmosphere in there and I couldn´t sense any band feeling at all.I was never happy with the bass sound.There wasn´t any real depth and body to it (something that usually is the case when you line the bass instead of using a real amp)I had to play with a pick to get a more clean sound.I had never played bass seriously with a pick before so it was nearly impossible for me to get ”the right flow” in there.I said to Anders afterwards that I honestly didn´t feel good about the result but he said that it was just fine.

These are the songs that actually were played by me on Discouraged Ones:
Stalemate, Relention, Cold Ways, Last Resort, Nerve and Distrust

Anders played on these:
Deadhouse/ A song I never had the time to fully learn. Instrumental/ I didn´t know that this was a ”real” song until Anders said that he would play on it. And finally I Break/ I had some problems with getting the breaks right on this one. Feeling alot of pressure on me as precious time was running I just said to Anders that he should do it.

Jonas played on these songs:
Gone/ This WAS HIS SONG so he played on it, period and Saw you drown/ Same thing here as with I Break I couldn´t get it right from the start so not to waste to much time Jonas played on it.

I don´t remeber if it was Anders or Jonas that played the bass on Quiet World from "Saw You Drown" ep/ I didn´t know of this songs existence until I got into the studio.

All the songs on both S.Y.D. ep (except Scarlet Heavens) and D.O. were recorded at the same time.

One thing is strange though, looking back with all the facts in hand now.Anders and Jonas never ever uttered a word to me about my ”lack of flow” and that I had no sense for the rythm when we started to rehearse the D.O. songs for a possible tour that never happened. So very fuckin neat of them.

I could say alot more about these things and events and reveal some ”secrets” as well. But I won`t do that, cause my hands aint dirty and I would like to keep them clean.Enough said.

To the person that is called Dreadfallen on this forum: I have never been to Finland so you must mistake me for someone else.

To the person here that was unsure if I´m still making music or not: The answer is yes I do, I occassionaly appears under the monickers of ”141”, ”Like 10 Thousand Dead Whores” and ”Bizarrpåse Incarnated” But I don´t think that any of you here would be intrested to hear it, cause none of them is whatsoever related to metal. It´s purly Postmortem Industrial, Devastating Noise and Perverted tape loops and cut ups.

Once Discouraged,
Mikael Oretoft
 
Great to hear Micke's point of view!

It's pretty much the same as Anders' explanation anyway, isn't it? Micke recorded some of the stuff and found the other stuff difficult and that was it.

Plus, it's pretty hard telling someone that their playing isn't good enough and that they're out of the band. Maybe they were trying to save Micke's feelings or something. Still, if they didn't give him enough time to learn the songs properly he can't really be blamed.
 
Ok, to quote Mikael Oretoft himself, it might be time to "once and for all put this to rest".

To kick someone out of a band is almost as difficult as breaking up with a partner; it's something that's probably happening everyday out there and I'm sure most of the time it's a terrible issue and will lead the way for missunderstandings, broken pride and what not else, as we can see.

We all make mistakes. By the time of working with 'Discouraged Ones', Katatonia was a band in ruins (the title wasn't excactly a joke), and unfortunately, we found out that Oretoft maybe wasn't the right bassplayer for us either. We did no gigs for 'Discouraged Ones', we more or less lost touch with everything. It's pointless to try to defend ourselves, that's not the objective here. We didn't invite Oretoft to the recording sessions of 'Tonight's Decision' because it didn't work out on 'Discouraged Ones'. Although admitted, we didn't kick him properly and lined up the reasons for him that he didn't work out musically, we wanted to spare him that as the situation was already beyond unstable. This led to a very weird situation. We're not bad people, he came in at the wrong time in Katatonia and with a playing style that didn't "fit" us.

However, this is something that happened almost 5 years ago, in a very different Katatonia, in bad and confusing times. We have a brilliant line-up now, something we always wanted. We're all extremely proud of last years album 'Last Fair Deal Gone Down' and we're all looking forward to top it later this year when we're going to record our new album. So we let the past sleep, misstakes be lessoned from, and the present future lead the way, to what we are...
 
...let the past sleep...

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

Well, it was interesting though to read Micke's point of view and get some more background information - after years of wondering. Thanx for taking your time to write all this. And good luck in the future!

I think it's amazing that even though Katatonia was "in ruins" back then they managed to put out such a great record. Thumbs up!
 
Interesting news... But probably there is more behind than only "too difficult stuff to play". Anyway I hope Anders and Micke ´ll keep their "secrets" to themself if there still are some.
 
Originally posted by Iceheart


Yep, impressive, isn't it?

yeah. it's so ironic...the band is in "bad shape" and thus produces an album called "discouraged ones"...then this album gets to be the favorite album of a youngster in turkey to be played a thousand times. :)

i hope that micke will stay here longer to chat with us. hope to hear from him more - especially about his current projects.
 
Yes, very interesting indeed, very much clearing things up, thanks also to Anders for at least responding to Micke's post.

One thing's a bit unclear though, Anders says Micke was not invited to the recording sessions of Tonight's Decision, but I conclude from the rest of the story that he was already sorta "kicked out" during the D.O. sessions (he didn't play on all the songs), so what's up with that..?
 
Originally posted by MadTinus
Yes, very interesting indeed, very much clearing things up, thanks also to Anders for at least responding to Micke's post.

One thing's a bit unclear though, Anders says Micke was not invited to the recording sessions of Tonight's Decision, but I conclude from the rest of the story that he was already sorta "kicked out" during the D.O. sessions (he didn't play on all the songs), so what's up with that..?

To answer you, let me quote Micke himself:

Anders played on these:
Deadhouse/ A song I never had the time to fully learn. Instrumental/ I didn´t know that this was a ”real” song until Anders said that he would play on it. And finally I Break/ I had some problems with getting the breaks right on this one. Feeling alot of pressure on me as precious time was running I just said to Anders that he should do it.

Jonas played on these songs:
Gone/ This WAS HIS SONG so he played on it, period and Saw you drown/ Same thing here as with I Break I couldn´t get it right from the start so not to waste to much time Jonas played on it.
 
Originally posted by Don Corleone
oh, you revived this thread, madtinus?
Hmm, yes I did, I was looking for some info on Scarlet Heavens, did a search and found some of these old threads, nice eh??

@MacMoney, that doesn't really say anything about the moment he was "kicked out". What I first understood (from Anders' story) was that he was kicked out during the sessions for D.O., but then later on Micke says he was not invited to the sessions of Tonight's Decision, implicating he was still officially a bandmember at that time...

So whazzup, it ain't that significant, but I's just wonderin'...