Mixing Real Drums With Samples

[MEGA DAVE]

ok so i'm totally aware of what it means to do this but i was just wondering how you all go about mixing the two. Do you do it all with the same track and get the drums sounding really nice and then use the blend knob in drumagog or do you create two tracks, one real and one of the real kit but sampled and mix their levels independently? I realize there are no real rules and there are many options to do so but I was just wondering how you all go about this as well as how the big dogs in the studio world like andy and others go about this?

 

[reg3n]

i'm no big dog but, i simply blend my samples with the real kits till it sounds good and maybe with multiple samples blended before in some wav editing app, till i find something i like for the particular song, i think i never left the REAL sounds completely out, guess it kind'a fits stuff togheter in a better way, maybe there's a better way but i think that room and OH's should at least sound a tiny bit coherent to the different parts of the kit... i like 'roomy' drums so maybe that's why i never kill the rooms and try to make everything else fit.

 

[MEGA DAVE]

right but what is your actual signal chain... like are you comp/eqing the real drums prior to blending with samples and doing blending all on the same track or keeping real drums on one track and sampled on another?

 

[reg3n]

i just have my separated mic tracks, and do the sample triggering with aptrigga (fed up with drumagog) on the tracks i want to replace, and apply eq'ing, comp, reverb etc over those tracks (separately), maybe parallel comp, maybe sidechain, and over all that, some comp on the main drums bus, but i try to keep as few fx as possible, good kit + good player + good miking + good room = better start. Learned that the hard way ;__; .Never thought of doing that in separated tracks, i mean, the triggers go right on the same track i wanna replace, and use the blend function to taste.

 

[MEGA DAVE]

so you actually keep your real drums and sampled drums all on separate tracks?

 

[reg3n]

sorry i edited the last post, and nope, i do it all on the same tracks, like --> real snare track / trigger / fx --> bus. That's the whole chain. All same track

 

[AudioPhile777]

so you actually keep your real drums and sampled drums all on separate tracks?

Thats one non-destructive way to do it, yes...

I like to get the kick sounding as good as I possibly can before I bring a sample in... usually I duplicate the track and blend the sample 100% on the duplicate, then adjust volume to taste... more sample tracks if necessary... all routed to a kick bus for overall volume and slight eqing...

 

[reg3n]

Thats one non-destructive way to do it, yes...

I like to get the kick sounding as good as I possibly can before I bring a sample in... usually I duplicate the track and blend the sample 100% on the duplicate, then adjust volume to taste... more sample tracks if necessary... all routed to a kick bus for overall volume and slight eqing...

wouldn't it be better if you just render your kicks completely when you're done mixing the samples and the real one for example, and trigger them? perfomance wise? the computer i use for mixing loves that ole statement 'not everything has to be editable all the time' ... guess if i had something better i'd do it the non-destructive way maybe...

 

[MEGA DAVE]

Also kinda on topic, when triggering the drums in drumagog i use the actual audio sample (need to get some triggers) and always run into problems with hit velocity inconsistencies as well as bleed from other mics making it hard to trigger correctly in drumagog, how do you all go about correcting this problem, as of now I actually go into the wave editor and will select an actual hit and gain it up to trigger it or gain down to prevent false triggering, which in some instances can take hours to do

 

[reg3n]

that's why i hate drumagog, i used to spend hours trying to get just the right config for my triggering (after normalizing, doing some other editing on the tracks) and there was ALWAYS some false triggering, or missing ones, so that's why i'm in love with aptrigga, 100x better, haven't failed a single trigger for like 2 months and counting.

 

[AudioPhile777]

wouldn't it be better if you just render your kicks completely when you're done mixing the samples and the real one for example, and trigger them? perfomance wise? the computer i use for mixing loves that ole statement 'not everything has to be editable all the time' ... guess if i had something better i'd do it the non-destructive way maybe...

Yeah, my machine is a beast for mixing... until i try to use a bunch of VST instruments...

that's why i hate drumagog, i used to spend hours trying to get just the right config for my triggering (after normalizing, doing some other editing on the tracks) and there was ALWAYS some false triggering, or missing ones, so that's why i'm in love with aptrigga, 100x better, haven't failed a single trigger for like 2 months and counting.

I've never had a problem with Drumagog... I've never tried aptrigga either, though... I usually spend about 2-3 minutes setting it up and its done... guess I'm just used to how it works...

 

[MEGA DAVE]

ha yeah thats what always blows up my comp is those damn vsti's

 

[o-dog]

i mix most of kevin talley's session work and i have my real snare tracks and drumagog tracks separate. depending on the material i bring up the sampled snare to taste but he likes as little sample as possible. the sample is however driving the snare verb all the time.

 

[nwright]

I usually use Drumagog right on the actual drum track and set the amount of blend in Drumagog. If the drum track needs comp and eq prior to going into drumagog, I do it...I find Drumagog really easy to use and don't really have too much trouble with false triggering. And, if the velocities are a bit much, it's probably because of the drummers performance, but you can fix that in drumagog, too.

 

[MEGA DAVE]

You mix Talley's drum work o-dog? Are you the one who owns the 'million dollar drum studio' he always talks about? I've talked to him quite a bit and the natural drum sounds he gets on his session work is amazing so kudos to you!

 

[DestroyTheColossus]

Also kinda on topic, when triggering the drums in drumagog i use the actual audio sample (need to get some triggers) and always run into problems with hit velocity inconsistencies as well as bleed from other mics making it hard to trigger correctly in drumagog, how do you all go about correcting this problem, as of now I actually go into the wave editor and will select an actual hit and gain it up to trigger it or gain down to prevent false triggering, which in some instances can take hours to do

This is not the most helpful, but get the triggers. They aren't too expensive. I used to have the same problem, so I would spend a long time deleting false triggered hits and basically deleting everything except a blip of the tom transients on each hit to make sure they were triggering correctly. Now with the triggers its throw on drumagog, adjust a few settings in there, and your good to go. Well worth the $150 for the ddrum pack.

edit: And mic track and sample tracks I keep separate.

 

[El_Gato]

yep, and triggrs to midi and save hours and hours of tweaking and editing

 

[MEGA DAVE]

can you run triggers to midi via the alesis dm5?

 

[colonel kurtz]

ok so i'm totally aware of what it means to do this but i was just wondering how you all go about mixing the two. Do you do it all with the same track and get the drums sounding really nice and then use the blend knob in drumagog or do you create two tracks, one real and one of the real kit but sampled and mix their levels independently? I realize there are no real rules and there are many options to do so but I was just wondering how you all go about this as well as how the big dogs in the studio world like andy and others go about this?

last project i did, i replaced the kick 100%, left the toms natural, and blended the snare with slate samples

there was one track of the original snare, one track of snare reverb, one track of the slate Z3, one track of the slate Z4, and then that was all bussed to a snare group

 

[El_Gato]

can you run triggers to midi via the alesis dm5?

It's got midi outs.

I tried ddrum triggers once for a few minutes in a dm5 and it was mega hot signal but yeah, you can edit later.