Mixing Real Instruments

[outbreak525]

Shortly, my band Nemora will be hitting a real studio to get some authentic mic'd up tracks. Up until now, the tones have been fake. Programmed drums, and Pod Farm. We're hittin' the studio with a Peavey 6505+ and Marshall Cabs. After recording there, I'm takin' home the tracks to mix and master.

Do you have any advice as to the differences between mixing fake vs real instruments? And also, advice for the tones we should go for on the 6505+? Just looking for something raw and heavy, with some nice cleans.

Thanks!

 

[thefalloftheheretic]

The guitars are most likely going to be more woofy than you're used to, just because speakers have a lot more realistic bass response than impulses. You will need to tweak your amp on the spot, as well as changing mic positions A LOT until you find the right position.

 

[RedDog]

Editing is going to cost a lot in terms of redbull and the spacebar. It's a lot more work in the finer details. and I like to think of the guitar tracking/reamp stage as one specific process that you simply must commit to. It's that way because there's no preset you can recall. But the real crux in the mixing stage with real instruments is their variance in level that you have to be very careful and intensive with. Programmed drums are great because you have total control over velocity, but actual drums (and getting them to trigger properly) are a huge bitch of their own. You'll have a blast!

Also, whatever you did on your last record... do that again. Like times ten. Cause that record was legit.

 

[Sloan]

make sure you get DI's!

 

[sbwakfk1]

I would maybe suggest doing all the performance aspects with a good DI @ home. When you get to the studio, you can just use their gear to reap your performances. I tend to prefer this approach cause it allows you to focus on JUST capturing a tone instead of splitting your attention between the performance aspects and the tones themselves. You certainly can go either way but it is an option Ive used before. Oh, and DEFINITELY get a CLEAN Di signal along with the amp tracks.

 

[outbreak525]

I've never been good with getting decent tones out of DI's, so I'm not sure what I would really use them for at home.
Probably gonna make sure the tone is as best as possible in the studio.
I want clarity in the distortion so I might put the gain at like 6. Not too sure where to go in terms of bass / mids / treble on the amp.
Last but not least we've decided on not sample - replacing the drums. Really going for a not-so-polished, Meshuggah Nothing (the old one) type vibe with the mix.
Gonna take a shitload of EQ and Compression I feel!

I really appreciate the advice, and the fact that you dig Equinox, Red Dog!

 

[Sloan]

The DI's can be used for whatever, just get them. You can reamp the di's 20 years from now for the rerelease...etc...

 

[Kellii]

The Di's can be grouped with the amp tones if you fancy slip editing any of the amp tones too if you feel like something could be alittle tighter. Then you can take the Di's out once finished.

 

[Trevoire520]

Even if you don't plan to reamp DI's are essential for editing.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

It's different, but IMO good different.

You don't have to worry about that goofy 8-10k shit that ends up in fake amps. You have to worry about some unwanted low end though.

Drums can get some goofy overtones that sound good taken out.

 

[mickrich]

I find it much easier to mix real instruments, especially drums.
Maybe because that's what I'm used to.
Absolutely record DI guitars before you hit the studio.
You can spend as long as you want getting perfect takes then re-amp in the studio instead of watching the clock.
Good luck with the sessions

 

[outbreak525]

Alright guys, I'll make sure I get the DI's

 

[Shinozoku]

Read Glenn Fricker's guitar DI thread first, too.

 

[CubanDude]

Yep, good advice on getting the DIs, it's a must, you'd regret it later on! In my experience, a real, mic'd guitar tone takes (post!) EQing better. And regarding the settings on the amp: On most amps it's a good approach to set everything to noon. This will get you into the ballpark. From there on it's mostly common to lower the mids a bit and add treble and bass. And be careful with the presence knob, just dial it up until it starts getting fizzy and back it up a little. Like I said, this applies for MOST amps, not for all though!

 

[outbreak525]

So it turns out we didn't have enough time/money to get the drums edited at the studio.
So we ended up recording guitars over a comp of the best drum takes, unedited.
Thank God I got the DI's because I just edited the drums at home, and holy fuck, now I seriously need to edit the DI's and reamp.

 

[outbreak525]

Man I am really having a problem with the toms.
The rest of the drums are being picked up very loudly in the tom mics, and it's really hard to make the toms sound good without making the rest of the kit sound like shit.
What do I do?

 

[drumattacks]

Toms are usually edited so that everything that isn't a tom hit is removed. It can still be tricky if there is a lot of cymbal bleed, every tom hit might introduce the harshness of nearby cymbals. Cut out everything up to the first tom hit transient and fade out to taste. Essentially you're manually gating the toms.

This youtube link might help, but youtube is being pretty weird right now..so I can't check to make sure.

 

[Revson]

Toms are horseshit, they make mixing miserable for me. With that said, here's what I'd do. Cut out all the audio where a tom isn't playing in the track. This may require a lot of careful listening to each tom track in solo. Filter out the high and low end, then compress. Slowish attack, fast release. Now EQ. Scoop a few dB out of the 240Hz area, the 800Hz area, and boost a few dB from 4-6kHz. I usually EQ first and then compress, but a friend recommended I switch it up on the toms and it's worked nicely on a project I'm currently working on.

 

[Sloan]

if you have too much bleed on tom tracks, sample replace them. it's a good idea to sample the kit used when tracking so you have some clean hits to use.

 

[Trevoire520]

Getting natural toms without bleed is a combo of:

The drummer having his toms and cymbals seperated
The drummer hitting his toms HARD
The engineer positioning the mic's well
Getting a decent amount of high end slap during recording so you don't have to boost it too much in the mix (the drum/drummer/head/mic placement combination)
Gating/editing during mixdown

i.e. Overall it's a bastard to get right!