Mixing way to Hot...

[GarethSE]

fuck mastering chains in the mix project
mix with MAYBE a master bus compressor, and thats it IMO
i dont even mix with that anymore, i cant get any fucking seperation, and i can't really get shit to glue nicely with it either. it all just sounds like a bunch of shit FORCED to sit together rather than a bunch of shit gently coerced into sit together by wafting pizza and beer at it for a couple of hours
but that's just me, and plenty of people get amazing results with a master bus compressor, and that's all cool

when i "master" my shit, i export a wav of the mix and import it into a brand new project and then master it
i read ages ago that DAW's respond way better to shit that way, and I'd be inclined to say I can feel the difference, could be just a glorified placebo effect, but fuck it

 

[PhilR]

that's why you don't call yourself a mastering engineer if all you got is a friggin m-box....

We had to record a lot of crappy demos through a MOTU 2408mk1 before we could afford a Lynx Aurora. Gotta start somewhere chap. He has a good pair of ears for the job, and he has the education. Just needs the experience before the money starts to come in.

 

[Fragle]

We had to record a lot of crappy demos through a MOTU 2408mk1 before we could afford a Lynx Aurora. Gotta start somewhere chap. He has a good pair of ears for the job, and he has the education. Just needs the experience before the money starts to come in.

truth to that. on the other hand, i just wouldn't go as far as offering real mastering if anything about it isn't up to it.

but then again, audio is religion, and many people will have very strong opinions about several subjects.

 

[PhilR]

truth to that. on the other hand, i just wouldn't go as far as offering real mastering if anything about it isn't up to it.

but then again, audio is religion, and many people will have very strong opinions about several subjects.

True but nobody with any clue about mastering would ever rely on a single playback source for their masters either.

 

[beyond dead]

Ain't it the truth dude, amazing what a noticeable difference upgrading your D/A converters makes! (since it's whole mixes being piped through them to your monitors)

upgrading to the profire 2626 has made a world of difference for my masters!
if you check out the tracks on my website (on my sig) you will see im getting competitive loudness without noticeable clipping, and a good spectral balance!

I mix with a comp on the 2 bus, but find I always make little changes once I add the mastering chain to the 2 bus.
I use a method similar to marcus to clip the snare, but I send my snare to 2 aux. tracks, one is heavily clipped, the other dry, then I send both of these tracks to another bus which is also sent to a rev. aux track.

basically all my different instruments (guitars, drums, vocals, bass, keyboards, effects) are bussed together into groups and treated accordingly (maybe some limiting, eq or somethin to take the load off my 2 bus plugs)

first plug on the chain is eq, then some comp., then I use a clipper to tame the little transients that poke out of my mix here and there that are making my 2 bus clip, then I limit and shit for loudness maybe another clip.

 

[Melodeath]

Yep! Not to thread hijack, but everything has become a bit smoother, the lows and mids have come alive especially detail wise, and even what i would class as the muddiest kicks on my 1010lt are popping through with quite some clarity now.

I really think I need to buy one of the really cheap audio interfaces so I can truly appreciate the difference. Maybe my Alesis io26 was way better than anyone thought, b/c I haven't noticed any obviously converter quality increase with my Liquid Saff.

 

[Zombietakeover]

Hey thanks dude's alot of good information there!
Marcus good stuff, when did you get a 400F? you likes?
Thanks Fragle I totally understand what your saying.

I'm just doing my annually take a step back and honestly listen to my stuff and i came to the conclusion I wasn't good LOL
but im glad that im able to do that..it's how you get better..I know alot of ppl are deaf to their own shit.

 

[Splat88]

Lately, I've been mixing lightly into a saturator and then a compressor on the master bus. This has taken away the need for me to use a clipper (except for on the snare track). I'm really starting to enjoy mixing this way and it takes a HUGE load off your mastering compressor and limiters.

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah dude, it sounds great and has been mostly working well for me; a few driver glitches here and there, though they're never more than minor annoyances (though if I were recording other people I'd wanna invest in something more stable - however, considering how amazing the converters are for the price point, I can deal! )

 

[AEL89]

you don't have to leave the master fader at 0dB, just make sure none of your tracks and plugin chains are clipping and then you can bring the master fader down as much as is needed.

I used to think that it wasn't meant to be touched, but if you have a perfect musical balance, why ruin it just because the master fader is clipping?

 

[Melodeath]

you don't have to leave the master fader at 0dB, just make sure none of your tracks and plugin chains are clipping and then you can bring the master fader down as much as is needed.

I used to think that it wasn't meant to be touched, but if you have a perfect musical balance, why ruin it just because the master fader is clipping?

Yep. There is nothing wrong with turning down the master fader. For some reason some people think there is, but that's just not how DAWs work.

In fact, as long as your plugins run at 32 bit or higher, you don't really even need to worry if you "clip" your plugins either. I've even tested it.

 

[Metaltastic]

I used to think that it wasn't meant to be touched, but if you have a perfect musical balance, why ruin it just because the master fader is clipping?

Because you can preserve that musical balance by bringing all the faders down by the same ratio? (in some programs anyway, e.g. Reaper and Pro Tools - or you could do what I mentioned above, bring all the faders down like halfway before you even start mixing to give you plenty of headroom). And I've heard bringing down the master fader truncates bits and thus some dynamic range; might be BS, but avoiding clipping it has become second nature to me, so it's more than worth it to be sure!

 

[Melodeath]

Because you can preserve that musical balance by bringing all the faders down by the same ratio? (in some programs anyway, e.g. Reaper and Pro Tools - or you could do what I mentioned above, bring all the faders down like halfway before you even start mixing to give you plenty of headroom). And I've heard bringing down the master fader truncates bits and thus some dynamic range; might be BS, but avoiding clipping it has become second nature to me, so it's more than worth it to be sure!

It's definitely BS, just FYI
Null tests have been done

Turning down the master is a lot simpler than grouping all the other faders, and worrying about post-fader stuff.

 

[Metaltastic]

Not sure what you mean by worrying about post-fader stuff, but my way has become ritual and like I said, better safe than sorry for me! (despite how convincing your "it's definitely BS, null tests have been done (take my word for it)" argument is )

 

[Melodeath]

I mean, it's just not how DAW's work. Plain and simple. But I can find you the gearslutz thread where null tests are used to prove it anyhow. Actually, you can just test it yourself. Bounce and null

As for post-fader. If some DAW has the plugins post-fader, suddenly by turning the fader down you're altering how much signal goes into the compressor. That sort of stuff.

 

[Metaltastic]

As for post-fader. If some DAW has the plugins post-fader, suddenly by turning the fader down you're altering how much signal goes into the compressor. That sort of stuff.

Yeah, I figured that's what you meant, I just was a bit confused since I thought you were responding to me yet I had made no mention of that

 

[Melodeath]

Ah. I was just mentioning it as a way that turning down the master fader is actually simpler than turning down everything else.

 

[ahjteam]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/8065710-post6.html

I usually use that method all the time and I think it was Torniojaws tried that method on some grindcore song and he liked it

 

[Fox Mulder]

Ah. I was just mentioning it as a way that turning down the master fader is actually simpler than turning down everything else.

Group up all the tracks and pull them down. That way they would go down in an equivalent manner instead of you sitting down with a calculator and measuring how much you need to turn down each track.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

Group up all the tracks and pull them down. That way they would go down in an equivalent manner instead of you sitting down with a calculator and measuring how much you need to turn down each track.

But the problem with that are the post-fader stuff you have there. How the hell are you gonna accomplish that "perfect" balance you had before? It's too much of a risk