Mjollnir

[Valkyre_28]

"Berserkers...doesnt Johann say like "after a thousand years of oppression let the berserks rise again..."? Oh, and are there any little pendant things relative to finnish people?"

Yeah, well, like I've said before: I was REALLY, REALLY ANGRY when I wrote those words, and I wanted some beserkers to come and whack some specific people in the head, or at least remind those people that they can and will eventually do that. That, boys, is what happens when you piss off a Norsewoman. I've said that before, too: The only thing worse than the wrath of a Norseman is the wrath of a Norsewoman. Read your sagas for proof, and in the meantime, never mess with the Norsewoman's child.

You say the truth, sista


I got mine in Leipzig around 8 yrs ago and it's mean much more then my pride and belief. I usually era outside, but here almost nobody knows what is this exactly. "some strange pagan sign" usually the answer Thats meaning, you couldnt buy here, youst order.

 

[Blutaar]

O a norsewoman invasion!!!

I like the lyrics of "after a thousand years of oppression"
For me, these lyrics are like a valve for some anger and hate...
Some kind of Identification ... like my Mjollnir

 

[Thrymfal]

Oh, and are there any little pendant things relative to finnish people?"

Yes. Some Finns wear a pendant with Kalevalic significance, called a St. John's Knot these days, but it is a pre-christian symbol. Looks something like one continuous line making a square, but with looped corners, repeated a few times.

 

[Tyra]

That was actually OnceSealed's quote, and in reply, you (OnceSealed) should really look at Kalevala Koru's page. They have loads of Pagan signs for Finns!!!

 

[Pyaemia]

Hey Tyra I looked on the Kalevala Koru website and seems to me like there is only 2 version of Mjollnir!?!?!

That was actually OnceSealed's quote, and in reply, you (OnceSealed) should really look at Kalevala Koru's page. They have loads of Pagan signs for Finns!!!

 

[Tyra]

Yeah, I know, but OnceSealed was looking for Finnish pagan items, like the one Thrymfal was alluding to. They have lots of those knots. They used to have more hammers, though. I suppose a lot of people who buy hammers don't want to spend a lot of money, so they may be items that don't sell very well and were taken out of stock as a result. It is a Finnish company, and maybe the market doesn't support Asatru items, since their religion at the time at least partially was different from the Norse. Fuck, I can't express myself...make sense?

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

It seems like most hammers are dated to 800-1000. This is the tme which we usually call 'the Viking age'. But surely there were people wearing Mjölnirs before that, no?

 

[Tyra]

During earlier periods other symbols were used. Odin and Frej were worshipped before the Thor cult began. It is really with the vikingage that people sought out Thor more specifically and he became the "god of the people" (whereas Odin was the god of the warriors and the aristocracy, and Frej hade to do with fertility of various kinds). That's why you'll see more of the hammers appear during this time in history. I don't recall at the top of my head any amulets and such that were notably "asatru" before then, but religious grouping were mostly noticable in gravemorphology, petroglyphs, the things one would wear and bring into the graves (horses, swords and daggers can in such a case denote religious grouping) and such. THE most prominent Scandinavian symbol, from the stoneage right through to the vikingage, was the shipsymbol. The "suncross" also predates the hammer, but I don't at this moment recall it being found in the archaeological material in the form of a pendant, but rather as a petroglyph. There must be religious symbols used in the Vendel and Valsgärde graves, though, but I'll have to look that up first! Good question!

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

Thanks for the answer!

 

[Thrymfal]

yeah this is all true, and the Finns are not necessarily as deep into their Scandinavian roots, as far as Mjollnirs and that sort of thing goes, as they had their own culture, which was something like old norse and ancient russian/slavic, as they have always been in dispute with the mainlanders about territory, particularly in Karelia. I was just discussing this with my cousins in fact, who said they celebrate a Scandinavian heritage, but their own distinct culture as well.

 

[DeathBlade]

Im currently reading the Kalevala, the Finnish epic poem, and it is very differant then any viking/nordic/germanic mythos. I dont really think they would have Thors hammer, unless there were other regions that were more influenced by the vikings/asgardian pantheon?

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

The finnish people are very remote from the Germanic, in fact they are not even Indo-European, so obviously their religion is going to be very different as well.

I have a question though. In finland one see people with blue eyes and blond hair, looking little different from the Swedish, however, there are also people with brown eyes and brown hair. Is the blonde and blue-eyedness a result of swedish ancestors and the brown haired/eyed people the more pure finnish or what? Or are the pure finns also blond and blue-eyed and the brunette elements a result of foreign more southern influence?

 

[Celtik Militia]

For Thelastwithpaganblood's question.... this is hard to answer, all these racial origin things which date from long ago have different versions and are unclear.
anyway i'm sure you know the vikings had some parts of finland, and their were germanic people in the western coast of finland. so that might be the result of their hair and eye color. but that could also be due to evolution... blue eyes and blond hair as well as pale skin are more adapted to little sunlight cause that helps to catch the little sun there is. which is why people are more and more dark when we go closer and closer to the equator where the sunlight is at its highest level. of course, evolution to become pale skinned takes thousands of years.
but considering the early greeks were aryans (and its pretty hot in greece) as well as the aryans in india, this all gets confusing...

 

[Valkyre_28]

Finnish people is a little bit different than Scandinavians not just in "colours". Where I was (around 4 towns) I saw more ppl with green/brown eyes and light brown/red hair but they have very light skin as well. The biggest surprise 4 me was their height, in big numbers they are very small (especially 4 my 180cm). And as I know the scandinavians little bit bigger I see more Scandinavian type in the North-Russia but this is not a question why. In this time you couldnt say surely from any country what kinda ppl. are living there. Example, here you couldnt find big numered of origins, but if your country is always the middle of wars and always changing the borders then what we speaking about! Around 2 month ago they found old viking graves and different kind of articles here, and this is showing a little change bout history cause there is no any sight that they felt in battle, just simply livin here. As well you find 2000 yrs german ruins here, the history is so open in this theme. Then try to find out where to belong But its a wrong opinion that Hungarians and Finnish ppl have common, just our language type in sound a bit closer. Ok, maybe from common living for a short time, but its a very old philosophy.

 

[Tyra]

You've hit on a highly, highly disputed topic among the scholars. According to some, there was a "pre-germanic" poplulation living in Sweden in the late stoneage. They were short and blonde. The aryans who came from the area around Iran and India (somewhere, roughly, also disputed!) then migrated into Scandinavia. They were tall and dark. The two peoples mixed. Thus you'll find some dark, some short, some blonde already at a very early stage. The sami moved in from the east, too. There are no skeletal differences between the three populations, so in the archaeological material they can only be distingushed by the artefacts. The same goes for Finland, where there is a finno-ungrarian element, a Scandinavian, a slavic and a sami one. Then you have to take into account that Sweden and Russia have played ping-pong with the region for millennia. Swedish colonies were founded in (what was to become) Finland since before, but particularly during, the vikingage. The native Finns had their own religion, separated from the Norse one and closer to the slavic one of the ancient Russian and Baltic populations. Their language, too, is not related to ours, but to Hungarian. They just happened to come into the Swedish sphere of interest because they lay between us and the Byzantine empire, with which the Swedish Norse merchants plied their trade. After that, they were shuffeled back and forth right up until the last century. It is no wonder that the ethnic groups have mixed over time.

 

[Valkyre_28]

Originally the most of europians from asia, otherwise how can we explain the mummies in China with blond hair, light skin and others... Our knowledge couldnt be sure in these questions, until someone couldnt give some strong evidence of it ......but I will ask this from my smarter friends I think the whole history before the written words full with questions...

 

[Celtik Militia]

your "smarter friends"?!!!!
Tyra is an archeologist or history researcher or something!
how dare you?

 

[Valkyre_28]

Believe me, I know some ppl here to, whose prof. in this theme. I couldt say that my knowledge from history is alright, I interest a little bit other things.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

Fuck! i wrote a reply on this that was like a page long and it's fucking gone! wtf?

 

[Tyra]

He he! I'm working on it, but I am not perfect! Anyhow, Valkyrie, the mummies of the Taklamakan, Xinjiang and so on, to whom you are referring are much younger than the settlement of Scandinavia. Scandinavia was settled as soon as the permafrost retreated, something like 11 000 years ago, during the stoneage, whereas the Chinese mummies are about 4000 years old. The issue there is wheter the Chinese were the first to settle China, like they've always said, or if there were caucasiods living there before them. The Chinese have tried very, very hard to hide this controversy, including "losing" the mummies!