more proof Islam is evil and should be destroyed

[EerieVon]

Neither one of you will convince the other is wrong--you are battling each others belief systems

 

[schenkadere]

Shadowgeeky.. And you were calling my insults weak Other than being extremely uncreative and further proving you fail at life, I'd rather be a geek than a Cold, racist bitch any day.

This is about religion, not race. And furthermore, Sue is an extremely nice gal...and rather easy on the eyes, I might add.

 

[schenkadere]

Neither one of you will convince the other is wrong--you are battling each others belief systems

Dude, that signature is fucking hysterical...it took me a second to get it...that's great! "I have the power!"

 

[Jurched]

First of all, Every Numidian and North African country for that matter denounces the acts of terror in Afghanistan.

What's with this "blame the Afghans" nonsense?

Which party won the Algerian elections in 1992? The "I love Afghanistan" Party? No, I think they were called the Islamic Salvation Party, and were a bunch of local sharia nut-cases.

After they were denied their victory, they went bananas, machine-gunning every wedding and every public celebration for years thereafter.

Don't blame the Afghans for local mass-murderers!

God damn, suicide bombing a virtuous deed?

It must be, or Islamic leaders and journalists all over the world wouldn't be so supportive of their human sacrifice.

No form of violence assures your way to heaven in the Qur'an, the Qur'an is the least violent of all the Holy Books, while books like the Old Testament have sections promoting rape, murder, etc, the Qur'an has stayed accurate in it's passages up to present time, with nothing promoting unprovoked or religious violence.

That's what you and other individuals say. I don't want to hear anymore personal interpretations. I want to see the leaders take action and PROVE it DOESN'T.

Tell me how the Qur'an relates to murder, challenge my fucking statement. Where in the Qur'an does anti-semitism or senseless violence exist?

I'm relatively certain it doesn't condone murder. But the imams and muftis have notforced the end of the human sacrifice.

And what the fuck do you mean especially non-combatants? Read fucking casualty reports, most are against military forces, the number of, for example, Israeli civilians killed is nothing compared to the number of Palestinian civilians killed.

It is because of Moloch's High Priest, Yasser Arafat!! It is he who encouraged boys to attack Israeli soldiers with stones at the same time as Hamas was using guns during the 1st and 2nd intifadas. He encouraged mass-human sacrifice to his bloodthirsty god. But his foolish servants thought they were doing God's will!!

And please. Just shut your fucking mouth with the virtuous act of martyrdom bull shit.

No. I just came up with it, and I love it! I've gotta keep using it until I get bored.

How would you know it's promoted in Mosques everywhere? I'd ask if you've ever been to a Mosque

It is against my religion to enter a house where the infidel worships.

At a casuality rate of 5 dead Palestinians per day, and as many as 2000 at a single time (Sabra and Shatila), the Anti-Palestinian, Israeli terrorism is much more extreme, killing women and children needlessly, than one suicide bombing every few months killing a few dozen Israelis.

Never an acknowledgement, even by an individual moslem, that the intifada is wrong. Expected and unsurprising.

Moloch was a God of sacrifice, worshipped by Pheonicians in 1000 BC, long before Christianity and Islam. They would sacrifice people to appease the God. Comparing about 150 casualties caused by suicide bombings in the past 15 years to a ritual sacrifice of people to appease a War God is ridiculous, considering the Palestinian casualty rate is almost 200 times larger than the Israeli casualty rate.

Exactly! Moloch received as sacrifice the Canaanite's own children, or captured prisoners.

The suicide bombers of today sacrifice themselves and take along anyonw who are near them..., in the name of God. But which god accepts so terrible a sacrifice? Moloch, who apparently has not been dead for 3,000 years but is alive and kicking in his own ancient land!

And Imams don't worship Pheonician war gods.. Read the Qur'an, then go to a Mosque, and American one. What happens is there's a prayer every Friday, similar to Sunday Mass.

It is not conscious worship of Moloch I'm talking about. Nobody does that anymore. Rather, Moloch's nightmare makes itself known among those who encourage the suicide bombers and the intifada and now, as Hamas and Fatah kill one another for Gaza, fratricide. Just by allowing this to happen, it is like the willing human sacrifice of 3,000 years ago!

We pray, just the normal Evening prayer, then usually a few passages are recited from the Qur'an, then a donation box is passed around (like the one in Church) that go to helping build the new mosque in Boston and to help poorer members of the community with medical bills, etc. That's what happens, I used to go weekly, but it takes too much devotion for me, praying 5 times daily, memorizing multi-page long Prayers and the extremely strict morals.

I know! My complaints are about the Mohammedan community's leadership, who have failed both their followers (you and every other moslem in the world) and those who give them freedom of worship (the U.S. and other republics).

Jurched

 

[ShadowGallery]

and your attempts at insults are equally weak, especially in light of the fact that you are a CHILD. my own child is older than you, so i wont be goaded into a flamewar by someone i could have potentially diapered.
it suffices to say you're young and full of the accompanying youthful ignorance of the facts.
being raised amongst Muslim scum can only be seen as child abuse and further complicates your problems.

run away from home. it'll probably be your only chance to escape your youth with your life.

Great arguement.. I give you dozens of proven terrorist acts being carried out by Israelis against Palestinian civilians daily, and you completely ignore it and just say I'm ignorant... The oppression on Palestinians is horrible, and being the one Middle Eastern country I've been to, I know first hand. The racism, the way the Israeli soldiers treat Palestinian civilians passing through check points. And my arguement was in a vein of the ideas of Prof. Tanya Reinhart, who was not just for improving the horrible treatment of Palestinians, but was doing so for the better of Israel. No peace policy can be made while the oppression of Palestinians is still so prominent. Tell me what is so ignorant about that statement? Not just did Israel illegally take double what they were first alloted to by the UN, they did so forcibly with no regard for civilian life. Coupled with socio-economic repression of the Palestinians causing such things as an unemployment rate of 45% in Palestine by Israelis closing borders, not allowing most Palestinians in the Gaza strip to leave farther than 2 or 3 miles of their home (not even to go to work, etc).. As well as not allowing goods to leave or enter unless going through Israel first. Even what small amounts of land the Palestinians have been herded into, are still 100% under Israeli control. And land hasn't just been sprouting itself over the past half century.. Israel's been taking more land slowly from Palestinians, bull-dozing entire villages and rebuilding Israeli settlements.. Just compare the map of Palestine and it's populations in 1900 to 1948 to now.. They have less than 1/6 of the land they used to control. It's a process, first Israel kill all forms of protesting by injuring and killing hundreds of protesters, or even uninvolved people just walking in the streets. And if you want proof, here's a quote from the HRW report, ‘Israel, The Occupied West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Palestinian Authority Territories’, in World Report 2001, Human Rights Watch, New York, 2001:

… a leading source of human rights abuse in Hebron is the excessive use of lethal force by Israeli security forces in clashes with Palestinian demonstrators, many of whom are unarmed and pose no dire threat to the Israeli security personnel, or anybody else… Many of the Palestinians who have been killed or hurt by IDF fire in the vicinity of demonstrations were pedestrians - this fact conveys a hint that some IDF soldiers have fired indiscriminately in populated areas.

Once this is done, demolishing old Palestinian villages and building new Israeli ones over them is simple.. It's as said by Yoram Bar Porath, that the intent of Zionists to just continue pushing Arabs out as so until all of Palestina belongs to Israel.. Quote:

It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their land.

And here's a quote from Rafael Eitan, Chief of staff of the Israeli Defense Forces:

We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.

And here's a quote from Martin Buber, an Austrian-Jewish Philosopher, in the Jewish Newsletter, June 2nd, 1958:

When we [followers of the prophetic Judaism] returned to Palestine...the majority of Jewish people preferred to learn from Hitler rather than from us.


The Zionists used many similar tactics against the Palestinians as Hitler had used against the Jews, putting Civilians in camps and even mass genocide as well as complete economic repression. There's a much of criticism against Zionists come from Jews. Because they are not the same group, and Muslims have nothing against Jews, it's Zionists because of the horrible, inhumane tactics used against Palestinians.

 

[SueNC]

Great arguement.. I give you dozens of proven terrorist acts being carried out by Israelis against Palestinian civilians daily, and you completely ignore it and just say I'm ignorant... The oppression on Palestinians is horrible, and being the one Middle Eastern country I've been to, I know first hand. The racism, the way the Israeli soldiers treat Palestinian civilians passing through check points. And my arguement was in a vein of the ideas of Prof. Tanya Reinhart, who was not just for improving the horrible treatment of Palestinians, but was doing so for the better of Israel. No peace policy can be made while the oppression of Palestinians is still so prominent. Tell me what is so ignorant about that statement? Not just did Israel illegally take double what they were first alloted to by the UN, they did so forcibly with no regard for civilian life. Coupled with socio-economic repression of the Palestinians causing such things as an unemployment rate of 45% in Palestine by Israelis closing borders, not allowing most Palestinians in the Gaza strip to leave farther than 2 or 3 miles of their home (not even to go to work, etc).. As well as not allowing goods to leave or enter unless going through Israel first. Even what small amounts of land the Palestinians have been herded into, are still 100% under Israeli control. And land hasn't just been sprouting itself over the past half century.. Israel's been taking more land slowly from Palestinians, bull-dozing entire villages and rebuilding Israeli settlements.. Just compare the map of Palestine and it's populations in 1900 to 1948 to now.. They have less than 1/6 of the land they used to control. It's a process, first Israel kill all forms of protesting by injuring and killing hundreds of protesters, or even uninvolved people just walking in the streets. And if you want proof, here's a quote from the HRW report, ‘Israel, The Occupied West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Palestinian Authority Territories’, in World Report 2001, Human Rights Watch, New York, 2001:



Once this is done, demolishing old Palestinian villages and building new Israeli ones over them is simple.. It's as said by Yoram Bar Porath, that the intent of Zionists to just continue pushing Arabs out as so until all of Palestina belongs to Israel.. Quote:



And here's a quote from Rafael Eitan, Chief of staff of the Israeli Defense Forces:



And here's a quote from Martin Buber, an Austrian-Jewish Philosopher, in the Jewish Newsletter, June 2nd, 1958:

When we [followers of the prophetic Judaism] returned to Palestine...the majority of Jewish people preferred to learn from Hitler rather than from us.


The Zionists used many similar tactics against the Palestinians as Hitler had used against the Jews, putting Civilians in camps and even mass genocide as well as complete economic repression. There's a much of criticism against Zionists come from Jews. Because they are not the same group, and Muslims have nothing against Jews, it's Zionists because of the horrible, inhumane tactics used against Palestinians.

honey, we're not playing anymore until you clean up your room.
now SCOOT!

 

[ShadowGallery]

What's with this "blame the Afghans" nonsense?

Which party won the Algerian elections in 1992? The "I love Afghanistan" Party? No, I think they were called the Islamic Salvation Party, and were a bunch of local sharia nut-cases.

After they were denied their victory, they went bananas, machine-gunning every wedding and every public celebration for years thereafter.

Don't blame the Afghans for local mass-murderers!

Which party was forced to resign for radical ideas in 1992? The ISF, it was only a few short months they were in office. But the Blood-soaker weddings, etc, never happened.. There was a civil war, where Mustafa Bouyali led the movement against Algeria, which only gained power from Afghani supporters, of whom joined the movement. If not for the Afghani militants who joined this attack, it would have been ended extremely quickly. But notice, a very similar event occured soon after the failed Algerian overthrow, the Taliban formed. With ideas in vein of Mustafa Bouyali, but more extreme. It was this group and supporters of it that aided Bouyali in the movement, and would later go on to establish the Taliban in Afghanistan.

It must be, or Islamic leaders and journalists all over the world wouldn't be so supportive of their human sacrifice.

When used as a military tactic it was used during many African countries fight for freedom from European nations, as they had not the technology of European nations of centuries of economis repression. But since when does a suicide bomber making an attack against the nation that occupies/oppresses them have anything to do with Islam?

That's what you and other individuals say. I don't want to hear anymore personal interpretations. I want to see the leaders take action and PROVE it DOESN'T.

Haven't they? When the group you spoke of tried to gain leadership in Algeria with very radical Islamic views, weren't they shut down? Yes. And by the laws of almost all Islamic nations, any forms of said violence are illegal. And the United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan, was a large force that helped to drive the Taliban from power, but because by the late 90s, they had grown so strong, they needed help from the US to rid themselves of the Taliban..

I'm relatively certain it doesn't condone murder. But the imams and muftis have notforced the end of the human sacrifice.

It was never Imams or similar figures who promoted such acts.. Imams are people of religion, all they do is lead the prayer everyday, which is just reading passages from the Qur'an.. The majority of promotion of such attacks came from corrupt forms of government, like the Taliban and ISF, whose radical ideas of fascism is the exact reason they're outlawed from Muslim countries.

It is because of Moloch's High Priest, Yasser Arafat!! It is he who encouraged boys to attack Israeli soldiers with stones at the same time as Hamas was using guns during the 1st and 2nd intifadas. He encouraged mass-human sacrifice to his bloodthirsty god. But his foolish servants thought they were doing God's will!!

Could we take the Pheonician War God of over 3,000 years ago out of this. It never had anything to do with Islam or any monotheistic religion and the Analogy doesn't work. Onto the point.. Arafat had nothing to do with the Intifadas, Arafat has no control over "civil disobedience", it developed because of the oppression the Palestinians faced in what was left of their land, which is really just like a giant prison, horrible living conditions caused by Israel's complete desestablishment of Palestinian economy along with complete control over any movement of any form and severe mistreatment of PAlestinian civilians.. It was just a few civilians throwing stones at Israeli soldiers at check points, of whom would constantly insult and physically assault Palestinians crossing through checkpoints. It was this horrible mistreatment that led them to throw a few stones and in return, be sprayed with bullets, killing mostly Palestinians who had nothing to do with the Intifadas, ones who were just walking by that were killed after Israeli soldiers would fire into open crowds at public places..

No. I just came up with it, and I love it! I've gotta keep using it until I get bored.

Exactly.. YOU came up with it, as long as almost every accusation you have against Muslims..

It is against my religion to enter a house where the infidel worships.

I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says you can't enter the religious building of a similar monotheistic religion. Actually we have almost a Network kinda thing at my Mosque's Sunday School, one week we visit a Church, the next week the Church Sunday School comes to our Mosque, the next week we visit a Temple, etc..

Never an acknowledgement, even by an individual moslem, that the intifada is wrong. Expected and unsurprising.

About 200 Israeli's were killed in total over the several years of this occurance, 1100 Palestinian civilians were killed due to Intifada-related violence in that time, aside from the already ridiculously high Palestinian death toll.. I don't see any apology for that from Israel.. Or for demolishing entire cities, moving Palestinians into pens and not allowing them to even move through-out that pen, which in-turn demolished their economy.. And that's modern times, many Jewish philosophers and writters critisized what Israel was doing (Like Buber for example), and compared the way they treated Palestinians to the way Jews were treated in Germany. I don't see any apology there either, but why should Israel apologize when they can just as easily use media to make themselves look victimized by the horrible Palestinians? What you're saying is like if Ahmed gets the shit beaten out of him for 40 years by Ariel, then one day, after 40 years, punches Ariel in the face and then Ariel pulls out a gun and shoots Ahmed in the face.. Then expects an apology for being punches in the face...

Exactly! Moloch received as sacrifice the Canaanite's own children, or captured prisoners.

The suicide bombers of today sacrifice themselves and take along anyonw who are near them..., in the name of God. But which god accepts so terrible a sacrifice? Moloch, who apparently has not been dead for 3,000 years but is alive and kicking in his own ancient land!

Since when are these suicide bombings in the name of god? Palestinian suicide bombers are extremists who, fed up with oppression, attack Israeli civilians.. Nothing in that sentence has anything to do with religion, it's a matter of oppression.. But that doesn't mean I'm for suicide bombings, Palestinians has had their share of mistakes, but they're nothing compared to the horrible mistreatment and countless death toll of Palestinian Civilians..

It is not conscious worship of Moloch I'm talking about. Nobody does that anymore. Rather, Moloch's nightmare makes itself known among those who encourage the suicide bombers and the intifada and now, as Hamas and Fatah kill one another for Gaza, fratricide. Just by allowing this to happen, it is like the willing human sacrifice of 3,000 years ago!

Like I said, these suicide bombings are not promoted by Imams or associated with religion. The motivation for them is for someway to end the horrible oppression, maybe they'll die, but hopefully their families will be able to gain a freer life.. Not the greatest idea/plan ever, but it's hard to combat against such oppression led by countries with a huge control over media and the ability to cut off Arabic media that reports Israeli attacks on Palestine.

I know! My complaints are about the Mohammedan community's leadership, who have failed both their followers (you and every other moslem in the world) and those who give them freedom of worship (the U.S. and other republics).

Jurched

Well thanks for at least acknowledging that there are Muslims who just pray and practice religion peacefully, that's the closest thing to tolerance I've seen yet on this thread.. But there are several democratic Islamic Governments who give rights to every person within the nation. There were a few groups of radical "Muslims" (who really aren't Muslims, most of the ones who are in such organizations are so, not because they're practicing Muslims, etc, but because they want to take away women's rights, etc, and bring the Middle East back to the way it was centuries ago). Algeria was able to rid themselves of these criminals and restore themselves to the government they previously had.. The Taliban in Afghanistan is one of a few examples of these radical Muslims who forcefully took their leadership powers, but most Muslim countries either didn't experience this on a large scale or were successful in ending this form of terrorism.

 

[ShadowGallery]

honey, we're not playing anymore until you clean up your room.
now SCOOT!

Your intelligence astounds me Well it's better than your "You're going to be a terrorist when you grow up", excuses for not answering my arguements.

 

[SueNC]

Your intelligence astounds me Well it's better than your "You're going to be a terrorist when you grow up", excuses for not answering my arguements.

your lack of intelligence astounds me, but i'm still giving you the benefit of the doubt, due to your impressionable age and the fact that you're in an abusive home.

have you got that room cleaned up, yet?

 

[ShadowGallery]

your lack of intelligence astounds me, but i'm still giving you the benefit of the doubt, due to your impressionable age and the fact that you're in an abusive home.

have you got that room cleaned up, yet?

Since when is my home abusive? And I back my arguements up with facts.. You use stereotypes and links of google from sites that say Rock Music is the Devil.. All I said was true, how several Jewish philsophers claimed Israels tactics against Palestinians were taken from the way the Jews were treated in Germany.. And how greatly Palistinean casualties outnumber Israeli casualties.. And the complete socio-economic repression suffered by the Palestinians due to Israel, for the most part hearding the Palestinian into pens and not allowing them to move... Along with all the quotes I gave of Israeli officials claiming they will not stop taking more Palestinian land and making millions homeless until Palestine entirely belongs to Israel...

What about what I said was incorrect.. If you just saw Muslims as people you might be able to start understanding how terrible the oppression in Palestine is...

 

[ShadowGallery]

as for Christians, any Christian that doesnt recognize the Jews as spiritual brothers doesnt know their scripture and needs some time down at the altar.

Old quote, but I forgot to post this:

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer . . . be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. . . . Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

The reason Christian Zionists want to establish Israel is because of the text from the Book of Revelation that states when the Apocalypse comes, Jews can either convert to Christianity or die and be condemned to hell. One of the prophesized events leading to this is the creation of an Israeli state. Definitely Spiritual Brothers

 

[SueNC]

Old quote, but I forgot to post this:



The reason Christian Zionists want to establish Israel is because of the text from the Book of Revelation that states when the Apocalypse comes, Jews can either convert to Christianity or die and be condemned to hell. One of the prophesized events leading to this is the creation of an Israeli state. Definitely Spiritual Brothers

actually, no. that verse is NOTHING like what your Muslim dog captors have tried to brainwash you into believing it is and it has ZERO to do with why Christians recognize Jews as their spiritual kin.

in the old Testament God made a covenant with Abraham. the Jews are God's chosen people by election, meaning he chose them above other nations of people.
Jews lived by the Jewish laws, but when Jesus was born and then crucified 33 years later, his blood was the reformation of the old laws. the shedding of his blood allowed for anybody to be adopted by grace into the same covenant God made with Abraham, simply for the asking.

we dont even have to drop everything and bow to Mecca 5 times a day to gain that grace, either.

 

[ShadowGallery]

actually, no. that verse is NOTHING like what your Muslim dog captors have tried to brainwash you into believing it is and it has ZERO to do with why Christians recognize Jews as their spiritual kin.

in the old Testament God made a covenant with Abraham. the Jews are God's chosen people by election, meaning he chose them above other nations of people.
Jews lived by the Jewish laws, but when Jesus was born and then crucified 33 years later, his blood was the reformation of the old laws. the shedding of his blood allowed for anybody to be adopted by grace into the same covenant God made with Abraham, simply for the asking.

we dont even have to drop everything and bow to Mecca 5 times a day to gain that grace, either.

Any reason you completely dodged my other post? I gave you all the facts and proof and made my statements..

Wow, you're extremely uncreative.. Always back to "All Muslims Are Dogs" with you.. Actually I live in the US, which means I can't be being held captive or my parents or "captors" would be arrested. And my parents did a much better job as parents than yours, your intolerance level is ridiculous.

Anyways Thank you for a completely irrellevent quote, that wasn't even a quote, just you babbling on with no proof. How bout respond the quote I gave, what does it mean if not that? And are you saying tens of millions of Christians who believe the quote to mean so are wrong? For a long while now, Christian Zianists have wanted to establish a state in Israel for the reason that during the Apocalypse, according to the Bible, All the Jews will be taken in one place and told to either convert to Christianity or be condemned to Hell. While in the Qur'an, all "people of the book" (Christians, Muslims and Jews) along with people of good morals are allowed entrance to Heaven.

And why bash on people who have the devotion to pray 5 times a day? What the fuck is wrong with that? If anything I respect someone with that kind of religious commitment..

 

[EerieVon]

why Christians recognize Jews as their spiritual kin.

That's kind of a stretch, Jews rejected that Jesus was the messiah, which is a cornerstone of our faith. Christians view the death of Christ as the fulfillment of the Old Testament, and that the Jews that rejected that Jesus of Naz.. was the Christ, and ultimately lead to the execution of Jesus via crucifixion. How can you say that we are kin when they rejected the person you and I view as the son of god? That's not kin, if anything that's an adversary of our god

 

[SueNC]

That's kind of a stretch, Jews rejected that Jesus was the messiah, which is a cornerstone of our faith. Christians view the death of Christ as the fulfillment of the Old Testament, and that the Jews that rejected that Jesus of Naz.. was the Christ, and ultimately lead to the execution of Jesus via crucifixion. How can you say that we are kin when they rejected the person you and I view as the son of god? That's not kin, if anything that's an adversary of our god

i know. it seems improbable, given that issue, but the Bible says that God deliberately blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts. they'll be chastised for their initial unbelief, but He also promised that even through their chastisement, He'd never forget the covenant made with Abraham and His people will never fall.
in Romans 11:25-27 the Word says: I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when i take away their sins.'
in other words, because of their disobedience, the Jews were blinded so that God's mercy could be poured out on the Gentiles [non-Jews]. when as many Gentiles are gathered in as possible before the appointed time, then the scales will be dropped from the eyes of the Jews and they'll see who the true Messiah is.
until that time, Christians are to recognize that Jews were the 'elect,' or chosen ones of God. Christians are those who were 'saved by grace' by accepting the ultimate sacrifice of Christ's shed blood.

and Shadowjuvenile, bowing to some city 5 times a day is ridiculous. it's a waste of time because Muslims have no idea if they'll make it to 'paradise' or not. they're just hoping.
Christians dont get to Heaven by works. we dont need them. all we have to do is accept the sacrifice, admit a need for Christ's redemptive grace and that's that. we're in!

 

[OldScratch]

i know. it seems improbable, given that issue, but the Bible says that God deliberately blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts. they'll be chastised for their initial unbelief, but He also promised that even through their chastisement, He'd never forget the covenant made with Abraham and His people will never fall.
in Romans 11:25-27 the Word says: I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when i take away their sins.'
in other words, because of their disobedience, the Jews were blinded so that God's mercy could be poured out on the Gentiles [non-Jews]. when as many Gentiles are gathered in as possible before the appointed time, then the scales will be dropped from the eyes of the Jews and they'll see who the true Messiah is.
until that time, Christians are to recognize that Jews were the 'elect,' or chosen ones of God. Christians are those who were 'saved by grace' by accepting the ultimate sacrifice of Christ's shed blood.

and Shadowjuvenile, bowing to some city 5 times a day is ridiculous. it's a waste of time because Muslims have no idea if they'll make it to 'paradise' or not. they're just hoping.
Christians dont get to Heaven by works. we dont need them. all we have to do is accept the sacrifice, admit a need for Christ's redemptive grace and that's that. we're in!

Sue, you are killing me! Do you actually believe all this evangelical, Holy Roller nonsense? Why on earth do place so much faith in this alien people from your own - because some book filled with THEIR ancient scribblings assigns them this lofty title of "chosen?" What have Jews collectively done to deserve this adulation you lavish upon them? Are you not a Conservative Christian? Who has been the greatest enemy of your faith in the past six or more decades? You casually dismiss the Jewish roots of Leftism/Liberalism, Marxism/Communism, radiacal feminism, etc. Everything I suspect you despise...so why the free pass for the Hebrew? (and the apparently obsessive hatred of the "other" Semites - not that I'm too keen on them either ) Because some tiny group of Asiatic desert-dwellers are arbitrarily favored by almighty God - all according to some cryptic, archaic scripture you were sold as an impressionable child? Why them Sue? Why not any other people on Earth? Why not your own ancestors, for instance?

You are clearly an intelligent woman, but I fear you are wholly allowing your faith to blind you to dangerous truths about this "chosen" people. Are you not Protestant? Have read Martin Luther's thoughts on this topic?

 

[EerieVon]

i know. it seems improbable, given that issue, but the Bible says that God deliberately blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts. they'll be chastised for their initial unbelief, but He also promised that even through their chastisement, He'd never forget the covenant made with Abraham and His people will never fall.
in Romans 11:25-27 the Word says: I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when i take away their sins.'
in other words, because of their disobedience, the Jews were blinded so that God's mercy could be poured out on the Gentiles [non-Jews]. when as many Gentiles are gathered in as possible before the appointed time, then the scales will be dropped from the eyes of the Jews and they'll see who the true Messiah is.
until that time, Christians are to recognize that Jews were the 'elect,' or chosen ones of God. Christians are those who were 'saved by grace' by accepting the ultimate sacrifice of Christ's shed blood.

and Shadowjuvenile, bowing to some city 5 times a day is ridiculous. it's a waste of time because Muslims have no idea if they'll make it to 'paradise' or not. they're just hoping.
Christians dont get to Heaven by works. we dont need them. all we have to do is accept the sacrifice, admit a need for Christ's redemptive grace and that's that. we're in!

I too would like to know what denomination you are. Most christians--whether they are catholic, baptist, etc do not hold the jews in such high regards. You kinda come off like one of those "jews for jesus"

 

[SueNC]

I too would like to know what denomination you are. Most christians--whether they are catholic, baptist, etc do not hold the jews in such high regards. You kinda come off like one of those "jews for jesus"

i'm Pentecostal Holiness and as i said before, any Christian that doesnt regard the Jews as their spiritual brothers is in for a shock. amongst other things the Bible says about the Jews is that God will 'bless those who bless His people.'
look at how long America has backed Israel and how good we've had it, in comparison to the rest of the world.
also, what was Jesus? he was a Jew! he participated in all the same Jewish rituals and did all the same things as the Jews. it was only by his sacrifice that the rules of worship changed.

and OS:

Sue, you are killing me! Do you actually believe all this evangelical, Holy Roller nonsense? Why on earth do place so much faith in this alien people from your own -

i believe that 'evangelical, Holy Roller nonsense' with every fiber of my being. as for this 'alien people' i became one of them when i made the choice to accept a Jew as my savior.

 

[ShadowGallery]

and Shadowjuvenile, bowing to some city 5 times a day is ridiculous. it's a waste of time because Muslims have no idea if they'll make it to 'paradise' or not. they're just hoping.
Christians dont get to Heaven by works. we dont need them. all we have to do is accept the sacrifice, admit a need for Christ's redemptive grace and that's that. we're in!

Why is it ridiculous, you're trying to say Muslims are horrible people now because they're committed enough to a religion to practice it in it's most strict form.. There's fasting in Judaism, you could so that's a waste of time to, but it's a religious act, and saying praying in Islam is hypocritical.. And honestly, look at what has become of Christianity in America, it's barely even a religion any more, all the holidays have been completely commercialized, most kids don't even know what Christmas means, just that Santa comes and gives them presents from the North poll, nothing of it's Christian origins.. And less than 15% of Christians in the US attend Church.. If someone want to live a life of very strict morals, etc, why hold it against them, and praying 5 times daily would just make a persons devotion to the religion grow, helping them to actually follow the moral laws.. And actually, about what you said, no, you also have to follow what the Bible says, it's not as easy as accepting Jesus.. There's morals to be followed, many of which are ignored by many Christians who just think like you "If I accept Jesus, I go to Heaven no matter what I do".

Anyways, back to what I was saying, who the fuck are you to say what religion is wrong and which is right? In the Qur'an, all other religions of morals and "people of the book" are allowed admittance into heaven (based on how they live their life, a Christian who says they are a Christian.. Anyways, I would think a book of GOD wouldn't contradict itself, and the Bible does say at the Apocalypse, the Jews will be forced to convert or be condemned to hell at the end of time, which really makes me question the brotherhood between the two. Many Zionists are against Christian Zionists for the fact that most of them want to form a Jewish Israeli state solely to fulfill the Prophecy of the book of Revelations that I just stated.

 

[ShadowGallery]

i'm Pentecostal Holiness and as i said before, any Christian that doesnt regard the Jews as their spiritual brothers is in for a shock. amongst other things the Bible says about the Jews is that God will 'bless those who bless His people.'
look at how long America has backed Israel and how good we've had it, in comparison to the rest of the world.
also, what was Jesus? he was a Jew! he participated in all the same Jewish rituals and did all the same things as the Jews. it was only by his sacrifice that the rules of worship changed.

So what you're saying is that God is appeased by your aiding of Israel in oppressing and killing Palestinians, so that is why America is so powerful? That sounds like a much closer comparison to Moloch to me.. And God is omnipresent, He/She knows all that is going to happen before it does, but doesn't interfere with how it does. The reason America is a super-power is not because of God/Jesus, they gained the title after their actions, etc, in WWII...