Moshing Vs. Dancing - The eternal struggle

+1 on that, but i use it to like get agression out to the music that pumps me. but its like non personal agression. i guess, i am not trying to hit the guy next to me when i am dancing. i am just having a fun time and if he is there. oh well ;\
 
Tool isn't exactly a metal band in terms of people going crazy mosh, but at the show I saw in 2006 the pit was pretty wild. I didn't see any "dancers" (still think it's a disgrace to the word to call that flailing dancing..) but people started throwing chairs.

"Hey uh.. meatheads in the front row. You guys would throw chairs?.. If people are gonna get hurt,.. I'm leaving. No reason to get hurt over a bunch of rock songs..... seriously." -MJK

I think "dancing" is dumb, but I'm not a personal fan of moshing myself. I like enjoying the music, getting in the zone, and drinkin a brew. When other people are moshing that's fine with me, when I'm playing and people mosh that's fine, so basically if you don't enjoy it, just sideline it. No reason to fend for your life if you don't want to. People go to shows for various reasons, though.
 
Best pit I've ever been part of was during Overkill at Bloodstock this year. Just a real good time, slow motion circle pit. Everyone was just partying and not skipping or running round in a circle. It was such a good atmosphere that the pit ended up bigger than the stage :lol: Not to mention the dude that was gaffa-taped to a chair, that was incredible! :lol:

Small festivals FTW
 
dude its nothing like that. at all. plus. Madball is straight edge, and is most of their fans. so that made me lol, scene kids have ruined hxc dancing for sure. and if you don't want to get hit. either move way up front of. move way back. don't stand next to the pit,

I go to shows the have fun, to interact with the bands. not so much to hear the music but thats always a plus if they are amazing live
if i just wanted to sit and listen to the music i'd do it in my room or something.

Then stay home and dance. They should make Hard Core Dance Revolution just for you.

I think the point of this is that the Dancing belongs at all of these bands gigs that you mentioned. I dont listen to any of the bands you named in any of your posts for this thread.

As long as the dancers stick to their own shows I dont care.

But I dont want to see them at Metal Shows.

I have seen this stuff at gigs like SoulFly or heavier bands like The Faceless. It don't belong.

I guess you didn't watch the video I posted.

Its no different than if It all the sudden became popular to start breakdancing in the pit.

And we dont wont to stand way in the front or way in the back. We want a big cluster fuck of people enjoying a show and occasionally breaking into a normal mosh pit which is what metal bands really want to see.

Lamb of God wants 100 people in a whirl pool.

Not 3 seizures flailing limbs with a big hole in the crowd.

If that is your only release than there are bigger problems at hand.

I think I will stick to the Permanent Marker Idea next time.
 
Catharsis studios, I respect your right to like bands such as madball which are considered hXc or straightedge. Dance to your hearts content at those shows I will never bother you or anyone else at those shows because I won't be there! Unearth on the other hand, is not hXc, not straightedge, and is not a band where your faggy madball friends should get in there and show everyone how much meaner and tougher they are than everybody else. Also, you admitted what I had a suspicion of for a very long time. Hardcore "fans" don't give a rats ass if the music is good or not they just wanna go to the show and "have fun" and "dance" aka ruin everybody elses fun. I rest my case on you faggots.
 
Catharsis studios, I respect your right to like bands such as madball which are considered hXc or straightedge. Dance to your hearts content at those shows I will never bother you or anyone else at those shows because I won't be there! Unearth on the other hand, is not hXc, not straightedge, and is not a band where your faggy madball friends should get in there and show everyone how much meaner and tougher they are than everybody else. Also, you admitted what I had a suspicion of for a very long time. Hardcore "fans" don't give a rats ass if the music is good or not they just wanna go to the show and "have fun" and "dance" aka ruin everybody elses fun. I rest my case on you faggots.

That was one of the most arrogant posts I've seen on this forum. For as long as I've been a member here this has been a most polite board and the atmosphere has been a lot friendlier than any other forum I've frequented, so calling people faggots 'cause the music they like (especially when we're talking hardcore here, which really isn't that far from metal, at least not as far as your everyday MTV pop singers and such) and generalisating that the hardcore people "don't give a rats ass if the music is good" bugs the shit out of me. Now, I'm a metalhead all the way, but I have a lot of friends who are into hardcore, and I do really enjoy some hardcore acts such as Madball and Blood for Blood, and I really don't see a reason to start a childish flame war on the subject.

Just my two cents, and I most certainly hope I'm not alone.
 
Interesting discussion here... I understand people not liking moshing much (I don't either). But there's a big difference between 100 people willingly bumping into each other repeatedly and having a good time, versus 1 person having a good time and the other 99 having to look out for that person. I've been to a few shows recently where I'll see one or two pit ninjas go into the crowd, followed by other people coming out of the crowd with bloody noses, missing teeth, or worse. I saw a 15 year old girl get carried out of the pit on a stretcher at a Cattle Decapitation show a while back, covered in blood. Some "hardcore" kid had kicked her in the face. I don't think one person's "self expression" is worth hurting other people or ruining the concert experience for them, and I guarantee you that most bands don't like when their fans get hurt either.

Oh, and whoever suggested "Hardcore Dance Revolution" = genius. Maybe these assholes will stay at home and only hurt themselves then.
 
I think pits are beyond stupid. No matter what people are doing. Debating about moshing vs. "dancing" is like debating about BREEEE vocal techniques - either way you're a fucking idiot.

One of the things I like about nerdy bands like Opeth is the lack of moshing. An ex-drummer of Backmask once criticized me for writing "nerd metal" but now I wear the term proudly.

I've never incited pits at our shows, although it has happened a few times (whatever people want to do really, stoked that they were into our music at least.)

The term nerd-metal made me check your band out! :headbang:

ps: Is there really any point in moshing anymore? I mean.... it's 2008... let it the fuck go.
 
You have to understand that there is a lot more fueling my rage about this subject than Catharsis studios, as a matter of fact he has nothing to do with it. I can't count how many times I've seen these dancers knock somebody out, pick fights against one person and outnumber him or just ruin the pit for the majority of the crowd. I didn't mean for this to be some hardcore vs. metal discussion it was more meant to be a discussion of why dancers shouldn't be in the pit for bands such as unearth. And if you look at the post at the top of the page he clearly states the music is secondary to interacting and having fun. So, sorry for being hostile but I stand by everything I said.
 
The hardcore "dancing" is reason Number 1 why I really don't go out to shows anymore. Most of the extreme bands I like nowadays get lumped into a tour package with a "core" band of some type which attracts the "scene". It formula NEVER fails of your standard metalheads either headbanging or doing the old school style of push pit, then it gets interrupted by "ninga gaiden", who in turn pisses off said metal heads and small scuffles break out. Personally, I"m from the old school of the "all together push-pull in motion", or "circle pit", and those have always had the unspoken rule of looking out for people around you and picking up people when they fall. It was just how it went. Nobody questioned it and you looked out for the other guy. I can recall countless times where a "dance" just went swinging arms and kicks without even caring who they hit. Hell, I even had a friend once who was AWAY from the pit, and some kid got the Holy Ghost of Ryden and started swinging arms and hit her in the eye. I know people say, "If your in the pit, then its your fault", but most of the time its the "dances" taking it to people around them. Basically, I just see these people as scene douchbags who want to look cool doing their "dance" and waring their tight jeans. Actually, it makes me cringe at any kind of "core" music even more. I'm all for self expression if its music you like, but please, respect people around you, and don't back up your hitting someone in the face with, "I was just having a good time."
 
The hardcore "dancing" is reason Number 1 why I really don't go out to shows anymore. Most of the extreme bands I like nowadays get lumped into a tour package with a "core" band of some type which attracts the "scene". It formula NEVER fails of your standard metalheads either headbanging or doing the old school style of push pit, then it gets interrupted by "ninga gaiden", who in turn pisses off said metal heads and small scuffles break out. Personally, I"m from the old school of the "all together push-pull in motion", or "circle pit", and those have always had the unspoken rule of looking out for people around you and picking up people when they fall. It was just how it went. Nobody questioned it and you looked out for the other guy. I can recall countless times where a "dance" just went swinging arms and kicks without even caring who they hit. Hell, I even had a friend once who was AWAY from the pit, and some kid got the Holy Ghost of Ryden and started swinging arms and hit her in the eye. I know people say, "If your in the pit, then its your fault", but most of the time its the "dances" taking it to people around them. Basically, I just see these people as scene douchbags who want to look cool doing their "dance" and waring their tight jeans. Actually, it makes me cringe at any kind of "core" music even more. I'm all for self expression if its music you like, but please, respect people around you, and don't back up your hitting someone in the face with, "I was just having a good time."

As I stated before, I completely agree about the people who take their windmills and limb-flails outside the pits and disturb - or in the worst cases physically harm - people who aren't in the pit. I still must urge you not to think that way of the hardcore scene, 'cause it seems to me that it's the emo/screamo/metalcore/heartbreak/eyeliner/whatever scene kids, not the real hardcore loving folk. The way I see it, this certain brotherly bond is a common factor in the HC scene, and as I said, the hardcore pits I've been to, I've never been left laying on the floor or injured on purpose.

That's just the way I see it and what I've learned from the people I know, but it kinda makes me sad to see hardcore automatically connected to the stuff MetalWorks posted in the video. At least in my head that has nothing to do with what I consider hardcore.
 
As I stated before, I completely agree about the people who take their windmills and limb-flails outside the pits and disturb - or in the worst cases physically harm - people who aren't in the pit. I still must urge you not to think that way of the hardcore scene, 'cause it seems to me that it's the emo/screamo/metalcore/heartbreak/eyeliner/whatever scene kids, not the real hardcore loving folk. The way I see it, this certain brotherly bond is a common factor in the HC scene, and as I said, the hardcore pits I've been to, I've never been left laying on the floor or injured on purpose.

That's just the way I see it and what I've learned from the people I know, but it kinda makes me sad to see hardcore automatically connected to the stuff MetalWorks posted in the video. At least in my head that has nothing to do with what I consider hardcore.

I totally forgot about my experiences at the real hardcore shows, those have been very positive. I'm not talking of the metal with "core", I'm talking of the caliber of bands that your naming, the old school type such as Snapcase, Converge, Botch, etc. I remember when Louisville used to have KrazyFest, that wasn't really that bad. But, Krazyfest hasn't been around for years. I know some of our responses do come off as "scene kids are just bastards who want to spin kick and swing their arms", but thats all we've experienced so far when it comes to the melding of the metalcore/deathcore. I'm kind of sad to not have come across any respectful "dancers", such as you've been around. Maybe the American scene should take some cues from the European side.
 
I totally forgot about my experiences at the real hardcore shows, those have been very positive. I'm not talking of the metal with "core", I'm talking of the caliber of bands that your naming, the old school type such as Snapcase, Converge, Botch, etc. I remember when Louisville used to have KrazyFest, that wasn't really that bad. But, Krazyfest hasn't been around for years. I know some of our responses do come off as "scene kids are just bastards who want to spin kick and swing their arms", but thats all we've experienced so far when it comes to the melding of the metalcore/deathcore. I'm kind of sad to not have come across any respectful "dancers", such as you've been around. Maybe the American scene should take some cues from the European side.

Heh, in some cases it's a good thing we come a bit behind in musical trends :) Mainly the pit culture is pretty healthy here, whether it's a mainstream metal group or a small local hardcore band playing. I haven't seen that many troublemakers or idiots besides the few occasional drunken morons who dive into a pit for the first time, get pushed once or twice and take it as a personal war declaration. Gladly those everyday heroes get collectively disposed of from the pit in no time.
 
I got to travel to a few places in Europe and the pits I saw in Germany, Poland, Portugal and France were a bunch of people having fun with Zero Violence or aggression. Granted there are also alot of people standing around which can sometimes seem like they are not interested in the music but on the contrary most people that really appreciate the music tend to stand there analyzing the music (especially as a fellow musician) and enjoy it without having to jump around or pit.

I would loved to have played a gig in Europe regardless just because they seemed to love all bands regardless of how big they were.

I think most bands I have heard from love touring Europe in general.
 
Then stay home and dance. They should make Hard Core Dance Revolution just for you.

I think the point of this is that the Dancing belongs at all of these bands gigs that you mentioned. I dont listen to any of the bands you named in any of your posts for this thread.

As long as the dancers stick to their own shows I dont care.

But I dont want to see them at Metal Shows.

I have seen this stuff at gigs like SoulFly or heavier bands like The Faceless. It don't belong.

I guess you didn't watch the video I posted.

Its no different than if It all the sudden became popular to start breakdancing in the pit.

And we dont wont to stand way in the front or way in the back. We want a big cluster fuck of people enjoying a show and occasionally breaking into a normal mosh pit which is what metal bands really want to see.

Lamb of God wants 100 people in a whirl pool.

Not 3 seizures flailing limbs with a big hole in the crowd.

If that is your only release than there are bigger problems at hand.

I think I will stick to the Permanent Marker Idea next time.

you don't dance to soulfly or lamb of god, you can to the faceless cause of the two step parts. haha

but farbeyond metal, dude its okay. i used to be totaly agianst dancing like seriously agianst it. but i tried it and it was fun everyone respects you here. just its the lame ass scene kids that throwdown and try to hit everyone cause their tuff. but see first you clear the pit. get everyone to open it up. then you get a good amount of area that you can't hurt anyone out side the pit and start dancing. but scene kids don't fucking know that
 
you don't dance to soulfly or lamb of god, you can to the faceless cause of the two step parts. haha

stupidest.statement.ever.

but i tried it and it was fun everyone respects you here. just its the lame ass scene kids that throwdown and try to hit everyone cause their tuff. but see first you clear the pit. get everyone to open it up. then you get a good amount of area that you can't hurt anyone out side the pit and start dancing. but scene kids don't fucking know that

ok, once again...why should DOZENS OF PEOPLE IN THE CROWD have to move out of the way so that one little douchebag kid in supertight pants can do some ninja kicks?

you can keep defending yourself all you want...and shit, you can keep doing your little "dances" as well - and i'll keep dropping said kids on their ass every chance i get when i go to see some fuckin' bands
 
you don't dance to soulfly or lamb of god, you can to the faceless cause of the two step parts. haha

but farbeyond metal, dude its okay. i used to be totaly agianst dancing like seriously agianst it. but i tried it and it was fun everyone respects you here. just its the lame ass scene kids that throwdown and try to hit everyone cause their tuff. but see first you clear the pit. get everyone to open it up. then you get a good amount of area that you can't hurt anyone out side the pit and start dancing. but scene kids don't fucking know that

I put that because the first time I ever saw these dancers was for Soulfly on the tour of their second album back in 2002/2003.

This was when there was always just 1 or 2 guys that did it and they were more of an anomoly. Now they are everywhere.

Kinda like those guys that where the fake 1 carat diamond earings.
 
As much as I hate metal kiddies for the aforementioned behaviour, I just keep my fingers crossed that they can take a good hard look at themselves in years to come. Like this one kid who was in front of me in the Gold GA line for Iron Maiden in Sydney earlier this year. His appearance was bad enough...wearing makeup, a DREAM THEATER tee tucked into tight camo pants, which in turn was tucked into army boots. Then he started to gay dance during the Maiden set (in second row of all places), and was promptly pushed and shoved out the way be me and a few others, and was appreciated by the diehard fans. He ended up at the very side of the stage by the end of the concert, bwahahaha

Btw I shouldn't have been in Gold GA really...I bought Silver GA, but me and another Silver GA dude rocked up so early we waited in the Gold GA line. The ticketing dude didn't notice we were Silvers, and hey presto, for a $99 ticket, us two landed up right in the second row (behind the First to the Barrier Iron Maiden club folks). Hehehe...I might try that when Metallica comes here in 09 (!)

TravisW, that was gold.