Music Through the Ages

[Kenneth R.]

Awesome thread.

since there's no original post... we can interpret the phrase "music through the ages..."

I think it's evolved quite nicely and has a lot more to go. I also think that the best era so far was a few hundred years ago.

 

[Accolade2289]

Omg, this is such crap, I had the whole thing in here, but somehow when I posted it, only the title came up, damn.

I am such a noob.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Ouch, that sucks... what was it about?

 

[Meedleyx10]

 

[Accolade2289]

Here it is:

I was reading the Dream Theater discussion thread, before it got out of hand and I started to wonder. If classical music is still around today (considering it was written hundreds of years ago) do you think metal and classical will be around hundreds of years from today? I know its almost an impossible question to ask because no one can predict the future as it is pretty much impossible to do. I was just wondering what people think music will be like in the future. Not the style, I mean in terms of how it relates into society and if any of the older music will still be around.

I personally think music will expand out for about the next couple hundred years until there are so many genres that it is almost impossible to decide what to listen to because so much music has been written. Its almost like that today with genres ranging from pop, rock, metal, country, classical, rap, hip-hop, jazz, blues, prog, prog-metal, black-metal, death-metal, pirate-metal... and the list goes on forever. It just seems like everyone wants to put their stamp on the musical world, but pretty soon there will be so much music that people won't know what to do. Think about it, today with Mp3 players everyone marches to the beat of their own drum, so no two people are alike, meaning music can essentially go on forever expanding, but that is not the best idea becuase how will you know what to listen to in the future. Today there are so many prog bands and metal bands I haven't listened to or heard of that are probably great bands, so with more music that quest of finding good music will be harder. Sorry its so long, just my thoughts.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Yeah, I agree. Except that I think Orchestral composition will always remain, while other genres will wax and wane. I don't think anyone can compare someone writing music for 4-5, or let's get ambitious and say 10 instruments, to someone who has to write music for 60 different instruments and imagine it all in their head without hearing their piece until it is first performed. That, and the extensive nature of Orchestral pieces, not to mention the demand of music theory and instrument knowledge (you must know transposition of the instruments if there is any needed, timbre and how they will fit together, etc.)... So I affirm what Harris and others have said in other threads: Composers like Mozart, Beethoven and Bach can't be compared to bands like Dream Theater or Symphony X. The former are in a league of their own.

 

[Accolade2289]

Yeah, I agree. Except that I think Orchestral composition will always remain, while other genres will wax and wane. I don't think anyone can compare someone writing music for 4-5, or let's get ambitious and say 10 instruments, to someone who has to write music for 60 different instruments and imagine it all in their head without hearing their piece until it is first performed. That, and the extensive nature of Orchestral pieces, not to mention the demand of music theory and instrument knowledge (you must know transposition of the instruments if there is any needed, timbre and how they will fit together, etc.)... So I affirm what Harris and others have said in other threads: Composers like Mozart, Beethoven and Bach can't be compared to bands like Dream Theater or Symphony X. The former are in a league of their own.

Yeah I agree. My friend and I had a discussion a while back on why can't contemporary musicians write good classical, like how it used to be written waay back then. Why can't I just go to my keyboard right now, put on the harpsichord effect and write some Bach. And here's my answer, which I believe is the closest answer the to real reason out there. Its all purely experience and training. If you grow up in a musical world of all classical and only classical, or something close to it, I believe it will be much easier for you to write the music. However since like 99.9% of people today don't have that training from a young age and such great classical exposure, the window of opportunity becomes greatly decreased once you hear classical later and try to emulate it, or write original music like it. I think its purely because in our society Classical isn't the norm, so without that much influence it is nearly impossible. With training you can write great music in these days, but it won't compare to the ancient music becuase our society isn't embraced in that music.

There is also the point that Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and most of the other great composers were just pure geniuses. They could hear multiple upon mutliple melodies all at once. With IQs of mostly in the 160-180 range, its very hard for anyone else to compare in just terms of intellectual power. And the chances that someone with that intellect gets exposed to classical music at a young age is very rare, meaning that to recreate it is a one in a billion chance. Of course the writing in DT and SX takes intellect, but it can't match those of the Classical era.

So in full, you need much intellect and exposure/training to classical for you to create such genius work. Without it you can still write great music, but it wont be as great as the classical masters.

 

[reidie]

I wouldn’t say that Mozart, Beethoven and Bach cannot be compared to modern day composers. When these guys were writing their music, "classical" music was society’s staple. Since then music has been forced to evolve with the creation of new instruments and technologies. Having studied music and composition I can attest that the various transpositions required for each instrument don’t really cause too much stress (especially if you were doing as much of it as these guys were – it would be second nature) - Most of the classical composers would have written all the different parts on the piano or in their head (basic 3rd and 5th harmonies etc) and transposed them as necessary. I’m not saying that’s easier than writing for a four or five piece rock band, but a completely different process. In the future, I wouldn’t be surprised if bands such as the Beetles and Pink Floyd are held in a similar esteem to the classical greats. Having said that, when it comes to pure musical genius Mozart takes the cake; the age at which he wrote some of his work is ridiculous.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I don't think IQ has anything to do with it, but I will agree that being immersed in the culture that created that kind of music would be advantageous in creating more of it. I do think it is possible to write like that today, but I find our society is less conducive to it, and furthermore that no member of any band I know is one such a person.

 

[reidie]

I agree, No member of a Band is going to be able to write something of the maginitude of a heafty classical work - 5 piece to ~50 piece : its just too bigger leap... if someone is going to do it they probably play 1st Violin in a symphony orchestra and already have an appreciation for the composition style etc

 

[Taliwakker]

What about guys like Frank Zappa or Mike Keneally?

 

[Accolade2289]

I agree, No member of a Band is going to be able to write something of the maginitude of a heafty classical work - 5 piece to ~50 piece : its just too bigger leap... if someone is going to do it they probably play 1st Violin in a symphony orchestra and already have an appreciation for the composition style etc

I think size has some factor to the problem, but the style of classical is completely different. Not all classical was huge orchestrations. There were sonatas, solo works, and other various small scale (3-4 instrument) pieces that were amazing. So though in terms of size you are correct, I don't believe that it is just the number of instruments playing, but the style and sense of melody and counterpoint, that does not allow for reproduction of similar work. Otherwise the task of writing classical would not be so difficult.

Regardless though, I think Romeo has seriously put out some great orchestration stuff, especially mixed with metal. Cause classical is amazing and all, but sometimes you just want something heavier, you know. I like listening to Pantera more than Mozart, cause I am more used to the sound. Listening to a lot of classical is relatively new to me, where as metal I have been listening to for many years now. But metal and classical are such different styles that they cannot be compared in terms of what is better, because they are so different. Each was born into a different world, a different society. It would be like a bear fighting a shark, or something impossible like that.

 

[razoredge]

Im sure Mozarts sheer musical genious had alot to do with it
Mozarts father was amounst Europes most desired teachers
Mozart was a master of many instruments one being the piano he did not write in his head without a chance of hearing it
Mozart wrote his first aclaimed opera at 25
Mozart was highly influenced by Bach and Handel and studied their work ... I guess this means he was not origional or creative but just another knock off
In that time people were much more diciplined and Im sure musical training more resembled the training of communist Russian figure skaters
In Mozarts time there was a handful of musical composers, no record lables no 6 month global tours. They composed and performed for the elite and large orchestras.
Thats how things were done

Todays music "industry" is much much different
A small group of people get together and write what they feel and are then told how it must be if they want to see the money. Or they go with the current blooming trend from the get go and get through that way. They run all over hells half acre to prove their worth and feed themselfs and the wolfes.
Most are players or singers that make it by putting together cute catchy little songs.
There are thousands of them
Only a handfull stand out as masters of their instrument and musical skill and exibited honest furtherment of the genre or tecnique
Can anyone think of these handfull?
Thats how things are today

Answer - in a hundred years - no ! the names of these people with echo in deaf valleys as those that remember them pass. Shear numbers will devalue the significance of their work as well typical human attitude to dis the past and realize how we got here.

And the Priests in the Temple will shreak

Yes, we know, it's nothing new
It's just a waste of time
We have no need for ancient ways
Our world is doing fine
Another toy will help destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the plan.

Don't annoy us further!
We have our work to do.
Just think about the average
What use have they for you?
Another toy will help destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the Plan!

 

[Kenneth R.]

...ok then

 

[razoredge]

The stuff that a few members of the current musical society are doing today with 3 or 4 instruments far surpasses what the classics did with a violin, viola and cello due to electronic tecnology and multi track recording. They are surely capable of further exhibiting their harmony and theory knowledge to orchestrate their music but what for ? It wouldnt sound right and it would be old school music and only viewed as a knock off from the "Classics". These guys have a new way of doing things a new groove but are respectable enough to pay tribute here and there in their own way to the masters that came before but apply it to todays music in their own way.

 

[Ascension]

I think some comparisons can be made with some artists today with classical artists of yesterday. l know Malmsteen didn't invent arpeggios, but he did master them on a different instrument & implement them into his works. Does this make him less than or equal to someone like Paganinni? Hard to say...but Paganinni's works will be long remembered after Yngwie has been forgotten. Paganinni is listened to by a broader spectrum of people...YJM's audience is fairly constricted.
As far as compositions are concerned, no...l don't think anything today is of equal value to the classics. The multi-layering with different instrumental sections involved in classical comps alone puts them on different level. Sure, this can be done with the technology available today. But, we're talking about a live environment at each performance of a composition...not a patch that was built in a studio and started with a push of a button.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

What about guys like Frank Zappa or Mike Keneally?

Thank you..... What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[anacrucix]

most modern music seems to be entirely based on repetition + strophic structures, classical structures win, always.

 

[CttN]

Q: How do you think todays music will be perceived in a few hundred years time? Will it be forgotten and archived in a time capsule only to be brought out for historical references, or be admired as we do of the music 200 years our past? In future studies of music may lead to these very forums and take note of our posts :0 (I'm in a weird mood right now btw)

 

[Kenneth R.]

razoredge you put modern prog metal on too high of a pedestal. none of those bands will be musically significant 100 years from now, but bach will be.