My mind blew off... Professionals are "slow"? & Pensado's Place

[ahjteam]

I was watching my new favourite youtube show, Pensado's Place, where several time Grammy award winner Dave Pensado hosts a 40-80 minute full on audio related shows with other random guests, mostly some "noname" audio engineers, producers and guys who worked on records that have sold maybe a few billion copies :Spin: Also for example on episode #25 is the guy who originally made the 5150, George Saer and episode #17 is Joe Baressi.

But after I watched the show for a while (I haven't watched all of them yet, I just discovered the show like this week), I just realized that the pro's are actually working kinda "slow". I mean, Dave said on some episode that it takes him roughly about FOURTEEN(14) hours to do a rough, almost finished mix and the guest said the same thing. That's roughly two full work days and all the editing and bouncing to audio has been done at that point. But yeah, they might work on ~200 track mixes so it can easily sum up, but in general when I was eyeballing some of his "In The Lair" mixes, he only had roughly 50 tracks per mix.

Another thing that I was wondering that he said that even he is still struggling with really basic stuff too like hearing compression etc (or then he was just straight up LYING )

So I came to think, that should I actually also start take my time on the mixes too?

 

[amarshism]

Some of these guys are probably mixing to/from tape as well so I assume that plays its role in slowing things down some. Im not surprised at all really. I like to take my time as well, whilst still making quick moves so as to not lose a sense of objectivity, and trying to listen to the song, and not to the mix... All the automation some of these guys must do, plus auditioning hardware comps/eqs/etc isnt as easy as clicking an insert on and switching between a few. Sure they have assistants, but patching stuff in is probably a little slower than clicking a mouse button.

 

[crillemannen]

I can only speak for myself and sometimes it can take up to 2 days to get it right but sometimes i've gotten great results in only a few hours so it all depends. But then of course it takes extra time bouncing hardware inputs etc

 

[Trevoire520]

I would bet alot of this is because they're not mixing generic metalcore band 325 every week. It's easy to get sounds quickly when you're doing similar genre's of music frequently (think of how generic the modern metal guitar sound has become. mahogany guitar>emgs>tubescreamer>5150>mesa recto cab>sm57)

Also I don't think these guys are anywhere near as reliant on drum samples and are spending the time to bring out a nice natural sound. Which requires alot more work than just sticking on slate samples.

They're working on a wide range of music so the sounds from project to project are very different, and require some experimentation to get things sitting together correctly. Also as mentioned if they're using analogue desks and hardware eqs/comps takes time.

 

[ahjteam]

Some of these guys are probably mixing to/from tape as well so I assume that plays its role in slowing things down some. Im not surprised at all really. I like to take my time as well, whilst still making quick moves so as to not lose a sense of objectivity, and trying to listen to the song, and not to the mix... All the automation some of these guys must do, plus auditioning hardware comps/eqs/etc isnt as easy as clicking an insert on and switching between a few. Sure they have assistants, but patching stuff in is probably a little slower than clicking a mouse button.

No, rough mix. no automation etc, still work in progress. And he seems to work mostly ITB. This is not the video I was referring, but see from 4:40 forward, first thing he starts to say is "I just started this song few days ago" and he also seems to have very little on the processing side, so I guess the starting material is really good too.

Also I don't think these guys are anywhere near as reliant on drum samples and are spending the time to bring out a nice natural sound. Which requires alot more work than just sticking on slate samples.

In the very first Pensado's Place episode he shows that he started using Slate's Trigger and you can even see it in that video ^ And modern pop music is like 80-100% sampled drums. I blame hiphop.

Also as mentioned if they're using analogue desks and hardware eqs/comps takes time.

He seemed very ITB in that video ^

 

[tempe]

Who cares how long it takes! The results are amazing.

 

[ahjteam]

Who cares how long it takes!

The one who pays the bill, especially if you charge by the hour?

 

[xFkx]

it's from all the acid they took in the 70's

 

[egan.]

The one who pays the bill, especially if you charge by the hour?

He says he started a few days ago and is coming back. I can assure you he isn't billing by the hour and is most likely getting paid by the song. When I work with outside mix engineers the general rule has been 2 days for the first song and a 8-14hour day for each additional song.

 

[Sloan]

It takes me FOREVER to finish mixes, I keep finding things I don't like and changing it up, try to listen in friend's cars whenever possible and make mental notes. I don't always track the best musicians or material so it makes it really tough to make something sound decent. It's amazingly easy when you have a good musician, I had the pleasure of recording an actually good drummer the past few weeks and only really had to edit one track out of eight, so that was REAL NICE.

 

[Virgil.]

Yeah I would think smaller Producers get paid by job, so it makes sense to hurry and just get it done; however, I think some of the bigger names like Joe, or CLA, etc. get paid by hour, especially if they are working out of a rented studio with top-notch gear... so I could see them taking their time.

 

[C_F_H_13]

Yeah I would think smaller Producers get paid by job, so it makes sense to hurry and just get it done; however, I think some of the bigger names like Joe, or CLA, etc. get paid by hour, especially if they are working out of a rented studio with top-notch gear... so I could see them taking their time.

They all get paid by the project. CLA's works out to a per song rate so the faser he can get it done the more money he can make. Joe probably gets a bulk amount to do an album and can work as slow or as fast as he wants.

A word about Pensado to the OP. Dave works on a per rate also, but he (at least when I met him) was working out of a studio that he had locked out yearly. Dave likes to talk. We dropped off files and he talked for almost 2 hours straight without us getting a word in. I think the reason he works so slow is he is incredibly relaxed, and if a song takes him 3 days...who cares.

 

[Joshua Wickman]

This is normal in my world.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

The Lady Marmelade song took him 14 days if I remember correctly.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

By the way when Dave speaks about working 14 or 16 hours on a song, it's usually 16 hours straight! That's pretty busy days to me...

 

[~BURNY~]

No wonder he always looks so tired. lol

 

[Charles J]

This is normal in my world.

+1. It takes me quite a bit to get a mix sounding anywhere NEAR how I hear it in my head!

And TBH, it makes me feel super guilty as far as making bands wait, etc. etc, but the results speak for themselves and if that's how long it takes, as much as I want to be faster, I just haven't found a way yet!

I like to explain it like this, I can't paint a masterpiece EVERY. DAY. I just can't.

If you put as much heart as *I* do into every mix (which I'm sure a LOT of you do!!!) by the 9th or 10th hour, I am COMPLETELY mentally drained!

 

[egan.]

By the way when Dave speaks about working 14 or 16 hours on a song, it's usually 16 hours straight! That's pretty busy days to me...

Yeah, when I've hired outside mix engineers it's been essentially on a day rate but sometimes those "days" are 20 hours. If the tracks are remotely complex and you weren't involved in tracking it can take several hours just to learn everything that's happening. I'm sure he's taking lots of breaks but you have to working like that.

 

[26]

it's from all the acid they took in the 70's

the mixes he puts out.....yeah, i agree ;-)

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Another thing that I was wondering that he said that even he is still struggling with really basic stuff too like hearing compression etc (or then he was just straight up LYING )

I actually still have a hard time with this too, even after 4 years. it's kind of embarassing. I hope he's not lying, it would make me feel better! lol