The two genres are whole different games. I can't say that either is easier than the other. Usually rock guys can't mix electro and vice versa. For example on the Pensado vid that features Slate he is showing a mix that he made for a electronic pop song. IMO it sounded all over the place and not something any electronic producer would do.
CLA at Pensado's Place
- Thread starter pitoga
- Start date
The two genres are whole different games. I can't say that either is easier than the other. Usually rock guys can't mix electro and vice versa. For example on the Pensado vid that features Slate he is showing a mix that he made for a electronic pop song. IMO it sounded all over the place and not something any electronic producer would do.
Sloan
Sounds like shit!
this is exactly why i wasn't excited about this episode. EVERY interview i've ever seen he seems like he can't say anything cause we'll realize it's easy as shit to be CLA or something.
aramism
Member
with good reason, most of the top tier guys probably know less about all the technicalities and nuances of this than everyone who asks them. it's more about your ears and knowing how to use whatever tools you have than all the other stuff. these guys are where they are because they craft a mix or song based on how they hear it.
pifos_2
des scoubidoubidous wha !
Lasse Lammert
HCAF Blitzkrieg
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
He lives in LA. Isn't that just how everyone over there is wired? Seems like some kind of bizarre plastic pseudo-reality.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
I respect you Ermz, but this is wrong - it's not even subjectively wrong, it's objectively wrong. Headroom has nothing to do with whether something is an acoustic source in a room, or a source generated in a box. Even then, often times "synthetic" sound sources are so harmonic rich, that they actually require way extra processing than a "non-synthetic" sound source needs - a typical trance lead synth needs tons of subtractive EQ to make it fit into the mix, much akin to a guitar cab recording. But at least with a guitar cab you've already got some of the shaping done via the speaker - a trance lead is going to be waaaay harder to control in this comparison.
Often times physical reality is exactly what makes real sound sources easier to mix - if you get the parameters correct that is.
And what about a modular Eurorack synth setup; completely analog... completely driven by voltages... as much a synthetic sound source as a guitar.
Sorry, I just think it's a bullshit distinction. It's an illusion and serves no purpose to think that way. Sound is sound - it's all sinewaves at the very core of it.
What it really comes down to is experience - that's the reason someone who mixes metal all the time wouldn't be able to mix trance or techno, and vice-versa...
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
That 'super harmonic' nature is exactly the sort of thing that makes the sounds easier to piece together. They are inherently saturated, compressed, lacking in dynamics, or at the very least have predictable, oscillating dynamic qualities. Half the issue of dealing with recorded music is in attempting to handle unpredictable, inconsistent changes.
I'm unsure about where the trance lead/guitar comparison is rooted, but I have never, ever in my life found it even remotely as difficult to process synth lead sounds into an arrangement as I have distorted guitars. I cannot even fathom how this could be the case, unless the person dialing the synth lead sound completely undershot what they were aiming for.
I disagree that it's a 'bullshit distinction'. You can hear the differences at play any time you compare a decent electro mix to a decent metal mix. Under normal circumstances the ability of the electro mix to completely slay the metal mix on grounds of perceived volume alone alludes to my 'headroom efficiency' point. Beyond this it's easy to hear that the electro mixes quite commonly make more effective use of the spectrum, and are subject to less undesirable mid-frequency nodes, which tend to be a byproduct of distorted guitar sounds. Let's not even get into low-end solidity, where predictable single-shot samples, more basic grooves, and undynamic synth basses get a humongous leg up on comparatively handicapped flabby kick drum sounds and woody acoustic basses.
Saying it's essentially 'all the same' is just being neglectful of the existing, observable qualities of both forms of music.
I'm unsure about where the trance lead/guitar comparison is rooted, but I have never, ever in my life found it even remotely as difficult to process synth lead sounds into an arrangement as I have distorted guitars. I cannot even fathom how this could be the case, unless the person dialing the synth lead sound completely undershot what they were aiming for.
I disagree that it's a 'bullshit distinction'. You can hear the differences at play any time you compare a decent electro mix to a decent metal mix. Under normal circumstances the ability of the electro mix to completely slay the metal mix on grounds of perceived volume alone alludes to my 'headroom efficiency' point. Beyond this it's easy to hear that the electro mixes quite commonly make more effective use of the spectrum, and are subject to less undesirable mid-frequency nodes, which tend to be a byproduct of distorted guitar sounds. Let's not even get into low-end solidity, where predictable single-shot samples, more basic grooves, and undynamic synth basses get a humongous leg up on comparatively handicapped flabby kick drum sounds and woody acoustic basses.
Saying it's essentially 'all the same' is just being neglectful of the existing, observable qualities of both forms of music.
crillemannen
Member
MarcusGHedwig
Member
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
Baaaah... It's all the same despite all those differences, it's music and emotions, stop intellectualizing all those shits beyond reason and making them boring and somehow elitistic (is that even a word?) 
And I think that's the big lesson and the reason why guys like CLA can awesomely and equaly mix any style of music (from David Getta to Slipknot), it's because they feel it, they don't think it.
And I think that's the big lesson and the reason why guys like CLA can awesomely and equaly mix any style of music (from David Getta to Slipknot), it's because they feel it, they don't think it.
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
^Ya I mean that's the main thing I took from your story. I need to think less and just trust my ears more. Each project is different.
aramism
Member
each genre has it's own sets of challenges. i don't think one is particularly easier or harder than the other, at least by much.
if anything... a good analogy is how it's kind of harder in a way to write catchy pop songs than 10 minute prog rock instrumental pieces.
"less is more" is a very skillful art all on it's own.
if anything... a good analogy is how it's kind of harder in a way to write catchy pop songs than 10 minute prog rock instrumental pieces.
"less is more" is a very skillful art all on it's own.
holy shit you guys, if you think CLA is a douchebag, check out jack joseph puigs myspace page.
in all fairness though, both of them have earned their bragging rights. the fact that this whole thread refers to him as "cla" tells me that he only feels like a rockstar because we all make him feel that way. i mean, every technique the guy does we all label as taboo, so we give him a lot of negative attention, and he just turns it into 'the rebellious engineer'. too much compression, stupid EQing, child-like panning, and big sloppy helpings of time based effects.
i think he only sounds good because of his gear. if he would get down and dirty with some plugins, the magic would be lost. and yes, that includes those stupid signature series.
jack joseph puig, however, is smart. one of my favorite mixing quotes of all time by him - if a mix truly translates well, you can listen to it on any system and the heat of the song will come through.
if you want a down to earth engineer who TRULY deserves rockstar status, check out george massenburg (and ignore his overly priced outboard gear).
dont worry, ill spill his secret for you.
the CLA formula:::
if you have a compressor, put 4 on every track.
set each one to a hundreth of a microsecond attack time, and an 8 billion year release time.
gently set the ratio to ten thousand to one.
compress 90 decibels to taste.
now carefully sculpt the harmonics with a Q setting the size of the moon, using a subtle 75 decibels of gain.
rather than focusing on the most prominent harmonics, like the losers do, apply this same EQ band to every known frequency in our universe.
in order to create a realistic sense of space, slap a large hall reverb at its longest setting followed by seven plates with a time of roughly 3 ice ages.
next, artfully add a ping pong delay set to 1/1111 of a second and 1/1112 of a second and skillfully increase the feedback until it pierces your very soul.
for the final masterful touch (see what i did there?) put a whole battallion of limiters on the master buss (since mixes should be hot, hot, hotter than hell) and limit lightly to 8 thousand decibels or so, give or take a thousand.
all in all, just make sure your mixes are skillful, artful, subtle, and dynamic, just like CLA.
i hope you enjoy the secret formula, now you can be a rockstar too!
Mikaël-ange
Member
- Nov 7, 2008
- 2,368
- 1
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Baaaah... It's all the same despite all those differences, it's music and emotions, stop intellectualizing all those shits beyond reason and making them boring and somehow elitistic (is that even a word?)
And I think that's the big lesson and the reason why guys like CLA can awesomely and equaly mix any style of music (from David Getta to Slipknot), it's because they feel it, they don't think it.
I'm with Brett for this one...
