need help getting snaretones I don't like :)

LSD-Studio

LSD-Studio

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Jul 2, 2006
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Hey, just mixing this pretty cool band (chick-singer).
on request of the band (well, the drummer) I left the drums natural (cept kick-augmenting).

unfortunately the desired snaretones are pretty much exactly what I try to avoid...given references were LoG Sacrament, some Slipknot, 3inches of blood...

so very cracky but no thud (I love THUD on snares...like most sneapfans do I guess ;) )
anyway, the snare the drummer brought was a 13", rather cheap but not total shit or so, got decent results I guess (I compressed to FUCK parallel, back to back..TONS of compression, well, I wanted to get every hit heard and sound like it's been hit hard)....

my problem now is, I usually would try to get more thud in the snare and make it sound bigger/better..whatever...
and since I think the snare on LoG sacrament, 3inches of blood etc sucks I find it really difficult to judge whether this snare is shite, ok, cool or great (obviously not the latter ;) ).

so would be cool if anyone that digs the aforementioned sounds could spill his opinion.:

against what I like

P.S. this is the bass I posted in the other thread
 
Unavailable said:
Sounds really good as is to me. How'd you get it so cracky?
Click to expand...

thanks.
snare is tuned VERY high, but the main thing was the placement of the 57...normally I've got it like 2 fingers into the snare, two fingers above it, pointing toward the middle.
this time I pulled the top 57 further out, so it was actually like 1" outside the snare pointing at the shell/rimm.

then I've got compresison on the snaretrack, on the drumbus, parallel compression, compression on the 2bus....quite a bit of compression going on there ;)

some boosts around the 3-6k area I think.

after the mix the snare was sticking out of the waveform like a thin but really long boner evry time it's been hit, so I had tons of clipping and some limiting in the mastering as well.
 
KeithTidd said:
are you serious you aren't using samples on the snare or toms? it sounds like sample city.
Click to expand...

yep.
I did FUCKLOADS of processing though, I as well automated the volume a lot (in blastbeats etc) (although....I did use a sample in the clean middlepart cause the miced snare was too cracky for that, so I blended a room-sample in...quite a bit actually)..
wait, there's a bit of the toms augmented as well...with the original toms though (I might have posted the samples earlier..it's my Yamaha kit)...just to lift things up when he didn't really hit as hard as I'd liked). snare is Metalworks 13" with Evans Head.

I tried to get the direct mics really clean, took me ages to place overhead mices etc...I also ducked the snare in the Overheads and roomics to be able to process it that extremely without getting too much shit from the OH


with his style of playing it's not really possible to use too much samples though (at leats not with tons of extra work), cause he's doing plenty of those doubletrokes etc

little extra-trick for the cracky toms:
I did the "soulwork-STD"-thing and have the piezo-signals in there as well...adds some crack, esp. on the toms
 
hmm i can't believe there is no sample!... great work:D maybe you can tell something more about processing? what plugs, and in what order? that can be really helpful!!

and mix sounds really good but vocals are a little strange for me, there is some kind of chorus on them?
 
zvish said:
hmm i can't believe there is no sample!... great work:D maybe you can tell something more about processing? what plugs, and in what order? that can be really helpful!!

and mix sounds really good but vocals are a little strange for me, there is some kind of chorus on them?
Click to expand...

really think it sounds goo?
no really satisfied myself so far tbh.
I didn't say there's NO sample, of course the kicks's augmented, so are the toms here and there (no OUTSIDE samples), as well as the snare in the cleanpart (roomsounds).

plugs are mainly MH channelstrip and Waves API. Reverb is Cubase roomworks.

processing snare:

topsnare boost around 4k
bottom: shitloads of compression fast attack, high ratio, gated/sidechained with top-snare...bussed to snare group.

compression with CS on snaregroup, as well as some more EQ (as well MH CS)-->reverb roomworks

bussed to drumbus: Waves APi compresion (about 3dB).
parallel buss: kick, snare and toms bussed to paralled group, compressed with API around 15-20dB. blended in.


Alan smart C2 on the 2bus.
as I said, there's lots of automation on the snaretrack to even out the hits as well. some weak hit I replaced with stronger ones.

in mastering there_'s more compression, clipping, limitinh....could perhaps post some screenshots tomorrow, don't really understand why though, cause I think this mix is far from being close to perfect or even good (that's why I posted it)...but well...tastes differ I guess

Vocals are doubletracked 414 through Safe Sound Audio P1 preamp and coompressor.

then bussed to group and distorted, compressed again (API) send to Delay and harmonizer (vocal split), guess that's what makes the chorus-effect
 
Haven't listened to this yet, cos I'm capped and its taken me 2 minutes and I'm still at the big whoosh ><

But I was playing around with a really tight snare sound the other day.. in the end I ended up using a slightly compressed track (2-3db), a par compressed track and a high-passed, REALLY compressed (8-10dB) track to get the attack through, and then blended that in with a couple of room samples. A LOT of limiting and clipping is needed to make it cut through the guitars but once it does it sounds amazing. Didn't sound like the snare you describe cos I had a lot of room going, but I'd suggest using another track which is highpassed (500Hz-ish) and compressed to fuck to make it pop out over the guitars.

edit: can actually listen to it now. I would.. cut a bit of the mids/low-mids out of it. If you can get a sample with a bit of ring to combine it that'd work well I think. These snares typically have little to no 'snare' sound in it so I'd reconsider using the bottom mic at all, but then again I can't really hear the snares anyway atm. And I'd definately recommend the highpass/compressed track for this.


And, otherwise it sounds good, only other thing I would comment on is that the drums seem a bit 'on top' of the guitars. Guitars may be a little dark comparatively? But they don't sound like they're in the same place, which may be lending a bit to the sampled effect.


edit2: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/121JustDrums.mp3 There's the sound I got. Apart from the lot of room sound going on, I think its pretty close to a LoG/Slipknot type snare.
 
Morgoe said:
Haven't listened to this yet, cos I'm capped and its taken me 2 minutes and I'm still at the big whoosh ><

But I was playing around with a really tight snare sound the other day.. in the end I ended up using a slightly compressed track (2-3db), a par compressed track and a high-passed, REALLY compressed (8-10dB) track to get the attack through, and then blended that in with a couple of room samples. A LOT of limiting and clipping is needed to make it cut through the guitars but once it does it sounds amazing. Didn't sound like the snare you describe cos I had a lot of room going, but I'd suggest using another track which is highpassed (500Hz-ish) and compressed to fuck to make it pop out over the guitars.
Click to expand...

I've never used as much compression, limiting and clipping ever on a snare as I did in this mix...hard to believe there can be more compression/clipping going on ;)

but I'll try blending in a highpassed track, doesn't sound like a bad idea!

EDIT:
I'm just reducing the piezo-crack on the toms a bit....
check updated version in a couple of mins

EDIT2:
ok, now I've just blended in some samples on the snare (from the original snare)..made it easier to get the crack through on the weaker hits....damn, I just can't really like these kind of snares, although I'm really trying

EDIT3..link updated. this time samples from the kit blended in and overall a bit more polish.
still don't like the snaresound, but I guess that's just because my taste differs from theirs......
 
I think it sounds fine. Drums are thight and the snare is cracky.
Only thing I don't like are vocals...I mean What the hell are wrong with those? Sounds awfull! But you didn't ask for that. :D

EDIT: But I think It's not mix-wise. Singer just sucks. Allthought the female-singer was ace!
EDIT: I mean: God dammit I hate that singer! Hope it isn's personal...But don't let it ruin your mix. I really hope you got really good mix for the band. Sounds good already!
 
Icony said:
I think it sounds fine. Drums are thight and the snare is cracky.
Only thing I don't like are vocals...I mean What the hell are wrong with those? Sounds awfull! But you didn't ask for that. :D

EDIT: But I think It's not mix-wise. Singer just sucks. Allthought the female-singer was ace!
EDIT: I mean: God dammit I hate that singer! Hope it isn's personal...But don't let it ruin your mix. I really hope you got really good mix for the band. Sounds good already!
Click to expand...

thanks..
haha, there is just one singer ;)
 
I couldn't really imagine a snare working better in this particular mix than the current one you have. It has a nice top end and enough smack to stick out. You def need to quantize those blastbeats though, they sound like slop city.

On another note, I think that the vocals need some cutting in the low mids, they have an iffy, cloudy aura about them.

-Greg
 
I really liked the screams. Reminded me a ton of Destruction, and it's awesome that a girl can achieve that.

All in all, I think this is a great mix, and if it's still rough, it can only get better amirite?

1000thPost.jpg
 
I don't really like the snare but it's ok. I would suggest you bring it down quite a bit as it sounds intrusive to me. Not a fan of the compression, too.

The vocals sound weird... too muffled and undefined.

The guitars on the other hand kick ass :kickass: :kickass:
 
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