Need to talk cabs: Mesa 2x12 vs 4x12, or potentially a Blackstar?

[Mattayus]

I've always had the sound of a Mesa in my head when thinking about metal guitar tones, but I somehow ended up with a different cab: The Marshall 1960DM. I love it, it's probably the best sounding cab I've ever heard... "in the room". But mic'd up it's falling short of what I'm trying to achieve. And since studio is more important than live right now, I really need to think about replacing it.

What I really want is that depth, with the grainy top end that's always associated with Mesa cabs.

The 4x12's are really hard to come by second hand in the UK, at least at the moment, and I can't stretch for new. There are, however, quite a few 2x12's that pop up from time to time. I know I'm not going to get that huge guttural deep punch, and it's inevitably going to be tighter with differently voiced mids, but under the mic is it still going to have that Mesa top end that sits in a mix so nicely?

Alternatively: Blackstar's S1412 is apparently a Mesa Standard clone. Am I wrong in thinking that? Can't remember where I heard/read it. If so, has anybody got any experience to attest to the similarity?

 

[guitarfishbay]

I actually have both the Blackstar S1412B and Mesa Rectifier 2x12 at the moment. I've heard a Mesa 4x12 but never at the same time/side by side as either the 2x12 or Blackstar 4x12, and with a different amp, so I'm not qualified to compare the Mesa 4x12 with either.

From the Recto 2x12 and S1412B I prefer the Blackstar as it just sounds bigger (as you'd expect), but most of my experience of the cabs is playing with bands and not in recording them, and I've never actually A/B'd them in a recording context.

I could do a short comparison clip at some point this week of the two if it is any use. I'll try my best to not make it suck . I only have passive guitars tuned in standard or drop D but you could give me dropbox links to DIs if you'd prefer something different.

I was thinking of selling my Recto 2x12 actually, but am based nowhere near you (I'm in Manchester).

 

[Jaymz]

Recto 4x12

The DM pooned the Recto 2x12 and I had them both at the same time.

 

[Mattayus]

I actually have both the Blackstar S1412B and Mesa Rectifier 2x12 at the moment. I've heard a Mesa 4x12 but never at the same time/side by side as either the 2x12 or Blackstar 4x12, and with a different amp, so I'm not qualified to compare the Mesa 4x12 with either.

From the Recto 2x12 and S1412B I prefer the Blackstar as it just sounds bigger (as you'd expect), but most of my experience of the cabs is playing with bands and not in recording them, and I've never actually A/B'd them in a recording context.

I could do a short comparison clip at some point this week of the two if it is any use. I'll try my best to not make it suck . I only have passive guitars tuned in standard or drop D but you could give me dropbox links to DIs if you'd prefer something different.

I was thinking of selling my Recto 2x12 actually, but am based nowhere near you (I'm in Manchester).

Cool man thanks, that would be handy! Whatever DI's you've got will suffice, cheers.

Recto 4x12

The DM pooned the Recto 2x12 and I had them both at the same time.

That's what I figured man. Had a feeling you'd chime in

 

[mickrich]

Have you thought about orange.
Relatively cheap in the uk compared to Mesa.
I have a recto 412 and orange ppc412.
They are both fantastic cabs.
I will run a quick comparison for you tomorrow if I have time.
Would Jeffs rose di pack be ok for you?
I can use 57, 906, i5 or m201. Whichever you prefer.

 

[Mattayus]

I was always put off by the recordings of Orange cabs I've heard to be honest, but by all means let me hear it man!
57 and i5 would be great, since they are mics I also own.

 

[mickrich]

OK
What head are you using so I can try and match your gear as closely as possible?
I presume you want ts808 in front too?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Marshall 1960 is killer and of course cheaper,the only problem is some weird stuff going on somewhere between 1000/4000
The Mesa cabinet has much better midrange on the 1000/4000 area.
ENGL cabs are cool too

 

[crillemannen]

I like my mesa 2x12. Don't like orange or blackstar cabs.

 

[Mattayus]

OK
What head are you using so I can try and match your gear as closely as possible?
I presume you want ts808 in front too?

I have a Peavey 6534+ and Engl Savage 120 (Engl is only on loan though, but still, it gets used a lot). TS isn't essential as I don't always use one, depends what the DI's are like and what the style of music is. I tend to work in a bit more of a 'traditional' metal context if that helps? I get a lot more thrash/death/prog bands than djent/metalcore/bree-bree-bwooaaaooowww.

Marshall 1960 is killer and of course cheaper,the only problem is some weird stuff going on somewhere between 1000/4000
The Mesa cabinet has much better midrange on the 1000/4000 area.
ENGL cabs are cool too

This is the 1960DM. Waaay different beast than your normal 1960, but yeah the high end is still a little lethal!

 

[mickrich]

My Triamp MK2 channel 3A sounds like an el34 version of my 6505 so that should be perfect.
Would a re-amp of this track be suitable?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2133088/DEDEL_FINAL.mp3

 

[Mattayus]

Sure man! And/or Jeff's KsE DI's would be good for a more heavy riffing example.

 

[mickrich]

Cool
Should be able to get it done tomorrow.

 

[Mattayus]

Cheers dude, only if you can spare the time! It's really appreciated, it's really hard when you've got nothing to go on and nowhere within a 100 mile radius stocks shit!

 

[mickrich]

Here you go.
Mooer Green Mile OD>Triamp MK2 Chnl 3A (EL34 tubes)>Cab>57

I used pink noise to place the mic just off the harshness at centre cone.
Recto cab first then Orange PPC412.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2133088/RECTO_VS_ORANGE.mp3

Here is a zip of the individual raw files if you want to hear or process straight off the mic.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1EPqLUI5jInOF9mUU0wYU1QUGs/edit?usp=sharing

 

[guitarfishbay]

Also grabbed the ROS DIs, cheers.

Visual Sound 808 -> Blackstar S1 104EL34 OD1 -> Cab -> 57

S1412B first then Mesa Rectifier 2x12. Used mickrich's idea on fading in the track. Same position both times, on axis to the side of the dust cap.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/omf2py82au5dl33/S1412B -> MR212 (VS808 Blackstar S1 104EL34 OD 1 SM57.mp3

I also went through the 'trying to find a Recto 4x12' situation about a year ago and just gave up and got the Blackstar. I'm really happy with it for what I use it for.

PS Why does my drop box link not stream? It goes straight to download for me.

 

[sexan]

Do you use pink noise via FX return or via Input?

 

[mickrich]

Also grabbed the ROS DIs, cheers.

Visual Sound 808 -> Blackstar S1 104EL34 OD1 -> Cab -> 57

S1412B first then Mesa Rectifier 2x12. Used mickrich's idea on fading in the track. Same position both times, on axis to the side of the dust cap.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/omf2py82au5dl33/S1412B -> MR212 (VS808 Blackstar S1 104EL34 OD 1 SM57.mp3

I also went through the 'trying to find a Recto 4x12' situation about a year ago and just gave up and got the Blackstar. I'm really happy with it for what I use it for.

PS Why does my drop box link not stream? It goes straight to download for me.

Mesa wins there for me.

Do you use pink noise via FX return or via Input?

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/f-o-h/856385-pink-noise-position-mic-2013-a.html

 

[sexan]

I read that topic,but pink noise miked is very different than reamp (when I tried),it is very very scratchy and high end annoying .On your clip pink noise character is very similar to reamp, mine doesn't sound nothing close to reamp.Pink noise awful,reamp is ok but.Chain was Pink noise vst - ProRMP - 6505 INPUT - Red CH ,there is something I'm missing ?

 

[Mattayus]

Wow, I actually prefer the Blackstar and the Orange in those two instances I think! Ok so the 2x12 isn't looking like a good idea right now hahaha. Thanks a million for taking the time to do that for me though gents, it's really appreciated!