New album Foregone out February 2023

[DE4life]

Calm down bro What pop band was Jesper in? I genuinely don't remember, but it sounds interesting. Jeppe <3

As far as popularity goes, last thread was open for 3+ years, we aren't there with this one yet. I imagine there will be a decline, but that's likely mainly because forums have been in decline for over a decade now and so have In Flames. I mean, even their subreddit has barely any activity, so it isn't just here.

 

[eochaid]

Scrolling through the forum, I just saw the last album topic. It has 5,591 replies, 248,976 views. Pretty good numbers I must say since we're still using forum at 2023. This thread has way less, I guess we're losing blood cause you guys shitting on new users.

I just applied the theory of discussion to shit on people. As I always do.

That thread has 280 pages, the most of them talking about different subjects that the album, while this one has yet 116 and the album is still to be released. Not bad.

 

[ThePhobiac]

I think I get what @SunOfMyth was saying about music theory -- there have been some complaints about the new songs (I think MYM in particular) about how they're not well-structured, choruses are out of place, that the songs are just a collection of riffs with no greater meaning. Just drawing from what I remember because this thread is long, lol.

I've scratched my head at some of those comments myself, because I never would have thought of those things and nothing has sounded egregiously out of place to me. The short acoustic interlude in Foregone Pt 1 is an example of something that seemed totally fine to me but ended up being a point of contention here, to the point where I think we were talking about it being an actual flaw in the song (like, not a subjective thing, but a flat-out mistake or error of judgment). And that the chorus in MYM is jarringly out of place compared to the rest of the song -- to me, slowed-down, clean-sung choruses with a lot of melody in otherwise fast and aggressive songs have been a thing since Coerced Coexistence (studio magic on the vocals aside), but I realize not everyone will give that comparison the same weight.

Ultimately it's all subjective -- what sounds fundamentally flawed to one person will sound completely fine to another. Nobody is correct and everybody is correct. The sun will turn into a red giant 1.5 billion years from now and nothing will remain of the Earth or our opinions, and Battles will remain the greatest In Flames album ever made.

 

[eochaid]

New I think I get what @SunOfMyth was saying about music theory -- there have been some complaints about the new songs (I think MYM in particular) about how they're not well-structured, choruses are out of place, that the songs are just a collection of riffs with no greater meaning. Just drawing from what I remember because this thread is long, lol.

And... You need music theory to explain that because...

 

[ThePhobiac]

Not necessarily music theory, but I think he was asking for more in-depth explanation for why those "flaws" supposedly exist in the new songs -- why MYM is just a collection of riffs with no greater meaning, but something off R2R or STYE isn't -- while supposedly their older songs didn't have those flaws. I mean, it's all subjective, right? What sounds like a poorly-written mishmash of riffs to one person will sound like vintage In Flames to another.

The issue is that when "problems" like that are pointed out, people tend to assume the intent is to argue that the songs are objectively flawed. Which makes the conversation less about opinion and taste and more about being right or wrong about whether the songs are factually good or not.

 

[eochaid]

explanation for why those "flaws" supposedly exist in the new songs -- why MYM is just a collection of riffs with no greater meaning, but something off R2R or STYE isn't

From a non music theory POV, when I listen to R2R or STYE, most of the songs... They glow from one section to another.

When I listen to these new songs... Everything seems to be forcibly joined together.

Why would we need music theory to explain that? Music theory doesn't talk about this kind of nonsense. You can do a composition from different melodies or you can make a song from a single melody that's constantly changing and nothing of that will break any music theory "law".

It's just a different way to approach music composition or different feelings when listening to those songs

For you it sounds like a unique coherent piece and that's ok. For me it sounds like random pieces joined together. And that's just it.

Or do you seriously think that there's a music lesson about not joining different pieces into a single one?

Or, maybe, are you implying that criticism is only valid if we have the musical knowledge to support our claims? Because no one is asking you about music theory when you say that you like the songs or if you claim that they're good. So, the oposite should also be valid.

Now, asking for music theory, seems to me a pretentious way to invalid arguments that the proposer doesn't like.

 

[Cobra8472]

imo one of the most difficult things in writing a song is the transitions between parts and riffs - even if they fit well together in the context of a whole song. Björn tends to lean on the more jarring transitions; like a quick descending riff or a interruption. Some of the more modern IF songs like Rusted Nail are the biggest offenders.

That said, I don't think Foregone has this as a major problem personally to the point where the songs are suffering a lot.

 

[eochaid]

I don't think that it's as bad as it was in the past, bit they still feel off to me.

But, seriously, just let's skip the music theory debate. Because, it we were to apply music theory to most of the music that we like, then we would probably be ashamed of even listening to it.

And I'll just use an example for this, so that it's more understandable. I have a friend. Professional drummer. Degree in music. He is playing drums since 8 and used to be a big fan of Slipknot.

Then, when he finished his degree he was not a fan of Joey Jordison anymore. Why? His words. "I've learned that playing fast is not the same as playing good".

So, I'm never asking him his professional opinion about the music that I like because I don't like to cry.

 

[Jester Slave]

My dick is still intact, because I am content with shitting on TJR's sound as being poorly aged. Maybe the mixing is indeed good, but it still sounds like it was made during WW2. On the plus side, it does give it some extra layer of uniquness.

By pop band I'd bet Ciko meant Cyhra.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

TJR sounds timeless I don't know how it sounds like it's aged poorly to you slave. Fair enough if it does but I can't believe that, it's the best produced IF album behind possibly Clayman and SOAPF.

 

[eochaid]

Can you explain that using music theory?

 

[TheJestersDoor]

On the topic of production... I didn't wade into the THE production debate but I will now as we're talking classic melodeath production.

If I imagine Jester Race having the mixing and production of DoTL, to me it would sound completely flat and lose the magic the album has. I like the way DoTL sounds but I can honestly say that it's not a great dynamic mix, it sounds good but it's too clean like most modern productions.

Now imagine DoTL with TJR/Colony production. Now that would get me excited.

 

[eochaid]

As I said, this is just my opinion, the problem is working with digital tools. It's not the same having a room prepared with amps and mica to catch a certain sound than using a plugging that fakes the sound of a real guitar. Of course, I know shit about music theory so I might be wrong.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

100% agree with you. Most albums I listen to recorded with plug-ins sound lifeless - the only exception I know of is I Let It In And It Took Everything by Loathe - that album sounds incredible.

Nothing can beat the dynamics of a cab and a mic, even if you "simulate" it as closely as you can. That's why I have a proper classic valve amp for practicing at home and not a laptop with plug ins. Sure I could get a far wider variety of sounds and perhaps even better tones with plug ins, but you don't get the feel and dynamics of a real amp, and feel is a big thing with both playing and listening.

 

[DE4life]

By pop band I'd bet Ciko meant Cyhra.

Eh, I liked Amaranthe (Jake) anyway, plus Kamelot (Landenburg) so for me it was about more than just Jesper, although it was obviously really cool that he was involved in something with Peter again too.

 

[Jester Slave]

TJR sounds timeless I don't know how it sounds like it's aged poorly to you slave. Fair enough if it does but I can't believe that, it's the best produced IF album behind possibly Clayman and SOAPF.

I am really running out of words to describe a semi-professional record from 1995 sounding like a semi-professional record from 1995. There are a bunch of movies as well, where you can instantly tell that they were made in the 80s, so even if it's a cinematic masterpiece, it aged.

 

[DE4life]

Semi-professional isn't the same as aged, though. As far as the mid-90s are concerned TJR has a perfectly professional mix for a metal band. If you want amateur production go and listen to any black metal band from that era.

 

[eochaid]

I think that the word here is cheap. Not too cheap. But the bands didn't have access to the money to make the albums sound massive and expensive.

And it doesn't matter.

 

[DE4life]

The production is part of what gives mid-90s MDM its charm for me. It's not perfect, but so what? It doesn't need to be. Those imperfections are part of what makes the music what it is. Anders' vocals are technically far better produced now than they were on Reroute or Soundtrack, but I much prefer how his vocals sound on the older albums. Not even a contest.

 

[eochaid]

Of course it doesn't. Still, there's the fact that they didn't have access to the best available tools to make those albums. A band, making extreme metal, in Sweden, first album with a new label, will never sound like The Rollin Stones.

Also, complaining about an album, from that time, being outdated, it's sound, is like complaining about Led Zeppelin IV sounding like a 70s album. That makes no sense.