New album Foregone out February 2023

[ThePhobiac]

I think the reason they feel they can get away with doing a shit ton of vocal layering in the studio without considering how it'll come across live is because, well, lots of bands tend to do that, so it's considered acceptable. Listen to a typical Sonata Arctica song and it sounds like Tony Kakko is singing with a choir of a hundred copies of himself, but live it's just him and some backing tracks (I think their keyboardist does backing vocals?). Most bands tend to not do vocal harmonies live, either, unless they have a backing vocalist. Not easy to have backing tracks for guitars, though.

Side note, but from what I've seen, Kakko's live performances seem to be controversial among SA fans, too.

I realize some people judge Anders by how he performs live rather than in the studio, so I guess it's different for everyone. I've always been a studio-first person -- a band I like can suck live for all I care, lol. It's nice when a band is good live, but it's not the end of the world if they're not.

 

[Gums]

lmao I missed this. This fanbase, man. Lars Ulrich has it easy.

When you are a 48 year old man producing autotuned squeeling about bedtime and monsters in your room, people are gonna let you have it. Rightfully so, cause it's fucking weird! It's totally pathetic, I felt like burning myself in the shower.. I wanted to point the showerhead directly at my nuts and burn them beyond recognition

 

[A88]

@drawntoblack I'm not expecting too much, but new Insomnium songs do sound better than the stuff from the last EP.

@DE4life Yes, I like Falconer. Fellowship is awesome because everything is so full of life and over the top. Guitars are never sleeping, every song is catchy and the vocalist just kills it. Good voice, interesting melodies and you can tell he likes what he does. So, everything opposite from Mr. A.F.

 

[DE4life]

Gums following Foregone's example and bringing IF criticism back to the extreme rootz, I like it

Comparison between Anders and Kakko is a bit off because Kakko can actually sing, irrespective of studio magic. Well - he could sing. Sounded like utter shit on their last album, so, maybe not anymore.

 

[Gums]

I think the reason they feel they can get away with doing a shit ton of vocal layering in the studio without considering how it'll come across live is because, well, lots of bands tend to do that, so it's considered acceptable. Listen to a typical Sonata Arctica song and it sounds like Tony Kakko is singing with a choir of a hundred copies of himself, but live it's just him and some backing tracks (I think their keyboardist does backing vocals?). Most bands tend to not do vocal harmonies live, either, unless they have a backing vocalist. Not easy to have backing tracks for guitars, though.

Side note, but from what I've seen, Kakko's live performances seem to be controversial among the fans, too.

I realize some people judge Anders by how he performs live rather than in the studio, so I guess it's different for everyone. I've always been a studio-first person -- a band I like can suck live for all I care, lol. It's nice when a band is good live, but it's not the end of the world if they're not.

I am a studio first person too. But I know the band isn't, they've said it many times. So this seemed like maybe a logical avenue toward something good in the studio, which they can hammer the fuck out of live. I thought there could be something there. Then we get the grenade of mammoth shit that is Foregone. For fucks sakes, not again!!!

 

[A88]

Kakko was always shit if you ask me. In studio and live.

When you are a 48 year old man producing autotuned squeeling about bedtime and monsters in your room, people are gonna let you have it. Rightfully so, cause it's fucking weird! It's totally pathetic, I felt like burning myself in the shower.. I wanted to point the showerhead directly at my nuts and burn them beyond recognition

Post of the week.

 

[eochaid]

I realize some people judge Anders by how he performs live rather than in the studio, so I guess it's different for everyone. I've always been a studio-first person -- a band I like can suck live for all I care, lol. It's nice when a band is good live, but it's not the end of the world if they're not.

But bands release albums so that they are played live. That's the whole point in making music. Touring is what brings them the real money. Then, more than judging him by his studio performances, it's that he can only do that with the use of pro tools. So, what's that? Real singing? No. If there was some tool enhancing, for example, Bjorn's performances, like turning a shitty solo into the next from Steve Vay, would people be ok with that?

I'm also a studio person, but I like to hear their real voices and singing, not some fake Autofriden.

 

[DE4life]

That sounds great.

Yeah, it's a great album. Almost like a movie soundtrack mixed with metal elements. Unfortunately though these guys were based in Indiana... US doesn't have a great PM scene to begin with, and even less so there. I think they'd have killed it if they'd been European based. Sad for them and sad for PM fans as they had the potential to be a really great band in the genre.

 

[ThePhobiac]

Well, I meant that Kakko does a bunch of vocal layering in the studio but then just sings on his own live. In Flames is basically doing the same thing (I wish they wouldn't, of course).

It's interesting because I remember delving into the SA fandom back when Winterheart's Guild was new and the contention was that Kakko couldn't sing worth a damn. But I guess when you're deep in the power metal fanbase you're splitting hairs to the point that most people won't know what you're talking about, lol

@eochaid That's totally fair.

 

[DE4life]

Kakko was always shit if you ask me. In studio and live.

His voice is certainly unusual. I believe I read he never had any formal training. Still, I am a fan of their debut album Ecliptica, and the next couple of albums afterwards were solid too. Everything went to shit from Unia onwards though. They also did an In Flames (or rather, In Flames did an SA) and rerecorded Ecliptica in 2015, making it sound far shittier than the original. At the very least they later came out and admitted it was a mistake, though.

Well, I meant that Kakko does a bunch of vocal layering in the studio but then just sings on his own live. In Flames is basically doing the same thing (I wish they wouldn't, of course).

It's interesting because I remember delving into the SA fandom back when Winterheart's Guild was new and the contention was that Kakko couldn't sing worth a damn. But I guess when you're deep in the power metal fanbase you're splitting hairs to the point that most people won't know what you're talking about, lol

I mean, he can sing, but no formal training as far as I recall... so it's not traditional singing in that sense.

 

[eochaid]

I've seen the guy singing with Nightwish and it was embarrasing. And the point, more than the amount of vocal layers, at least, to me, is that they're also fake layers. Using vocal layers it's something that has been done since forever. Every Iron Maiden album has tons of vocal laters. What's the difference? That Bruce Dickinson is able to sing live. So, the vocal layers are just an extra for the studio.

 

[eochaid]

I mean, dudes, this guy is making a living from his pathetic singing.

 

[eochaid]

I believe I read he never had any formal training.

Neither they had Bruce Dickinson or, if I remember right, Ian Gillan.

 

[DE4life]

Much like Lindberg, Kakko's voice is shot to bits these days. I've seen earlier SA live stuff and he sounds fine.





Regardless of whether you personally like the vocals or not - you can't say there's a significant downgrade live. If you went to that show you wouldn't come away saying that the dude can't replicate what's on the album in a live environment.

 

[eochaid]

In that Nightwish show... It's not about the voice... It's about singing the right notes. He's not in the same tone as the music.

I really despise this kind of musicians.

 

[DE4life]

Well, he doesn't even sound passable in studio now. I couldn't listen to more than 1 min of any of the songs on their new album, because his vocals were so horrible to listen to. Dude needs to actually get some training, or just pack it in.

 

[galvanized]

Maybe not too much of a surprise, considering they actually released a self-published novel alongside the album.

Didn’t know that, although I’ve only known about them for 48 hours now. Might need to check it out.

 

[Pallbearer]

So who the hell convinced him to autotune the shit out of 80% of the album's choruses and do this weird scream shit like someone is grabbing his dick in the middle of singing a word?

Looking forward to an X-rated documentary called "Making of 'Foregone'"

As for the actual question, I don't know, but I would guess Howard Benson.

 

[galvanized]

Starting at 02:02... look, I ain't into dudes, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't swooning just a little. Also love how it transitions out from that into the guitar melodies.

Strong agree there.

 

[Gums]

Looking forward to an X-rated documentary called "Making of 'Foregone'"

As for the actual question, I don't know, but I would guess Howard Benson.

If their aim when recording a new album is primarily focused on the output in a live environment, which I don't doubt since they've said it 1000 times, then they need to find a producer who understands that and helps them achieve their goals.
Unless Benson teaches Anders how to put some stage light wires in his ass and electrocute himself on command, then he has no chance whatsoever of replicating most of these new choruses live. So what's the guy supposed to do?