New album Foregone out February 2023

[The Grayfox]

I wouldn't say I hate any of the acts mentioned, save for Limp Bizkit, who I do think is awful, but they're just not my cup of tea. Borland is a good guitarist but even he couldn't save it because, well, this was during his 'hiatus' from the band, so he wasn't there. Deftones is one of those bands that I just never got into. Their fanbase reminds me of Tool's a bit, as they're always falling back on "oh but they're so talented!" Lots of bands are talented. That doesn't necessarily form a connection between fan and band alone. For instance, your band could be the most talented group of musicians in the world, if your frontman is Maynard James Keenan, one of the biggest twats in existence, I couldn't care less how talented your band is. Linkin Park is catchy and I really don't have anything against them, it's just not for me. And Mudvaye, I don't care for either. That nu-metal era is not in my wheelhouse.

I'll check out Black Light Burns, as I have been known to enjoy industrial from time to time.

 

[Xpyro125]

Oh fuck, you’re right, Results May Vary came out in late 2003, so you probably had to listen to some of the shitty singles from that album too— Fuck, maybe you did have to hear Eat You Alive. That’s heartbreaking, man, I’m sorry.

I’ll agree completely about both Deftones’ and Tool’s fanbases, it’s sort of a similar thing to Sleep Token’s rabid fanbase now that I think about it. White Pony has quite a few awesome songs, though you probably got stuck with quite a few songs from the self-titled (Which I can’t remember shit from) since that came out in May that year. I’ve actually never been able to get into Tool though, I have absolutely no idea what people love about them.

But that’s fair enough when it comes to that era of nu metal. Limp Bizkit had ruined it, it was a couple years before Head would leave Korn (They were shit without him, I’m sorry), Mudvayne was about to stop being progressive, Slipknot was about to release Vol. 3 (Never listened to it, but I know it’s divisive), and all the nu metal cash grab bands that oversaturated the subgenre were eating away at it by that point. 2003-2005 definitely marked the end of it definitively, as well as the end of rock and metal’s dominance in the mainstream– At least in America–, so it is pretty fucking depressing to think about.

 

[DE4life]

I enjoyed Rollin' as a novelty song, but generally speaking, yeah, Limp Bizkit absolutely suck and always have.

Linkin Park I've always been fine with. Simple, catchy music, and I thought Chester's vocals were pretty unique. I don't listen to them regularly, but there are various songs I like on their albums up until and including Minutes to Midnight. I haven't heard anything they did after that so can't comment on what they've done after 2008.

Mudvayne, Deftones, Tool... none of those are my type of music at all. Pretty much the exact opposite of what I enjoy for the most part. 'Sober' is a decent song by Tool, but that aside I don't enjoy their music. I wouldn't say any of those bands suck in the same way as stuff like Limp Bizkit, though, it just isn't my kind of music.

 

[Xpyro125]

Linkin Park I've always been fine with. Simple, catchy music, and I thought Chester's vocals were pretty unique. I don't listen to them regularly, but there are various songs I like on their albums up until and including Minutes to Midnight. I haven't heard anything they did after that so can't comment on what they've done after 2008.

One Thousand Suns was after MtM in 2010, and it was kinda shit imo. Just too complicated and pretentious without much payoff aside from the final minute of some songs. The Catalyst is actually pretty good, but it’s a shining example of how OTS went wrong.

I don’t know what it was like over there, but when Burn it Down came out in 2011-2012 it was pretty much unavoidable— Which I was fine with, I like the song. Living Things is a *very* simplified album, definitely overly correcting OTS’ mistakes, but I still quite like it.

The Hunting Party was in 2014, and Jesus fucking Christ are the instrumentals awesome. Just straight up heavy rock and roll, almost punk-y with Chester’s vocals. I’d recommend Guilty All the Same to see if you like the album. It’s arguably the most authentic and natural-sounding the band’s ever been, like garage band rock with good production.

Fuck One More Light. That is all.

 

[The Grayfox]

I fully recognize that Tool is a very talented band. It's their douchey fan base that ruins it for me mostly. They act like before Tool, there were never any talented bands, that they somehow invented prog metal, which to be fair, they aren't even really a metal band. I would say they lean closer to prog rock. But their fans seem to want to pretend that bands like Rush, Dream Theater, Symphony X, etc. didn't exist before them. Or tech death bands that make Tool sound like a garage band. Their fans are elitist in a very weird way.

There's nothing wrong with Linkin Park, they're just not for me. They were definitely influential and had a huge following though. I'd say half the crowd was into them and half wasn't. Really it was Metallica's fault -- specifically Lars, who picked the support bands as I recall. He picked bands that he liked, which is fine, but it didn't resonate with the crowd much. It would be like if Slayer chose Papa Roach as their support band. The crowd would've ripped them apart. In this case, I'm sure all of it was to drive ticket sales by having a diverse line-up.

 

[Xpyro125]

I fully recognize that Tool is a very talented band. It's their douchey fan base that ruins it for me mostly. They act like before Tool, there were never any talented bands, that they somehow invented prog metal, which to be fair, they aren't even really a metal band. I would say they lean closer to prog rock. But their fans seem to want to pretend that bands like Rush, Dream Theater, Symphony X, etc. didn't exist before them. Or tech death bands that make Tool sound like a garage band. Their fans are elitist in a very weird way.

I have met exactly two Tool fans in my life, and I agree with everything you’ve said here.

 

[GraemeSinclair]

Recently, for the lolz, I've been pondering which post-2002 In Flames songs I think could be included on a pre-2002 In Flames album and sound like they belonged there (i.e., that their existing songwriting and instrumentation would fit in well if they were given Studio Fredman production). My list is something like this:

Reroute to Remain
Reroute to Remain
Trigger
Minus
Dark Signs

Soundtrack to Your Escape
--

Come Clarity
Reflect the Storm
Dead End
Vacuum
Pacing Death's Trail
Crawl Through Knives
Versus Terminus
Our Infinite Struggle
Vanishing Light

Leeches(?)

A Sense of Purpose
Eraser

March to the Shore (?)

Sounds of a Playground Fading
A New Dawn

Ropes (?) - Instrumentally, I think this is a dead cert, but the vocals are so far removed that it's just a maybe.

Siren Charms
--
When the World Explodes (?)

Battles
--

I, The Mask
Voices
Deep Inside

I, The Mask (?)

Foregone
The Beginning of All Things
State of Slow Decay
Foregone Part I
The Great Deceiver
In The Dark

Foregone Part II (?)

(Songs with a question mark are ones that I think -could- work but have greater doubts about, maybe they have a greater use of clean vocals, that chugging riffing that wasn't really present before Reroute, or other non-melodic death metal elements).

 

[Xpyro125]

I think I agree with your assessment for Reroute to Remain, though I’d also throw Egonomic and maybe Metaphor(?) on that list.

STYE:
The Quiet Place
I guess the end portion of Touch of Red, for whatever that’s worth

Pretty much in agreement with CC.

ASoP:
Eraser
Tilt (It’s a bit slow of a song, but there are many slow songs in their classic catalogue)
Disconnected (Particularly the guitarwork in the chorus, shit’s beautiful)
March to the Shore

SoaPF:
Ropes
Enter Tragedy
A New Dawn

SC:
Siren Charms (A classic IF version would ideally have vocals and lyrics that wouldn’t ruin the instrumentals for me)
When the World Explodes
Become the Sky(?)

Battles:
This album is fucked.

ITM:
Voices
I, The Mask
(Wish I could put We Will Remember, but the verses fuck it over)
Deep Inside
Stay With Me(?)

Clayman 2020:
lol lmao

Foregone:

TBOAT
SoSD (Maybe)
Foregone Pt.1
Foregone Pt.2, but only as part of the same track as Pt. 1
TGD
In the Dark
A Dialogue

That’s a lot more for Foregone than I expected, given that I hate how not-IF it sounds to me. Surely however, Pure Light of Mind will be the most IF song.

 

[DE4life]

I wouldn't say anything after Clayman would fit on an older IF album as a full song. The method of constructing the songs is totally different. Going from the primary focus on guitars to vocals totally changes the sound dynamic. There are parts of songs that wouldn't be out of place between 2002-2008, but entire songs? I don't see it.

Post-2008, absolutely nothing. Without Jesper the sound is totally different and incomparable with the music that came before it. Bjorn writing solo changes things a lot, and the idea that anything off Battles - mostly written by Benson and his henchmen - would fit until the classic era is not a suggestion I can take seriously.

State of Slow Decay would have fit well on, oh I don't know, Slaughter of the Soul? Replacing track 1 maybe. Bjorler could still conceivably be given credit for the composition.

 

[drawntoblack]

New interview and rig rundown.

 

[DE4life]

I'm still so down on the band after Foregone. My current tier-list:

[TJR / Whoracle / Colony / Clayman / Reroute]

[Come Clarity / SOAPF]

[Lunar-Sub / STYE / ASOP / ITM]

[Siren Charms / Battles / Foregone]

Yeah, I'm putting Foregone in the bottom tier these days. I have no desire to listen to any song from that album again. Literally zero. There's nothing on there that either the band themselves or another band haven't done much better.

From the last time I tiered, Reroute has moved to transform the Big 4 into a Big 5. Nostalgia probably plays a part, especially considering the production problems, but still.

 

[mindd]

Almost the same for me these days, but I'd promote STYE, ASOP and Siren Charms a tier.

[TJR / Whoracle / Colony / Clayman / Reroute]

[STYE / Come Clarity / ASOP / SOAPF]

[Lunar-Sub / Siren Charms / ITM]

[Battles / Foregone]

 

[The Grayfox]

As of right now, I'd probably say:


TJR / Whoracle / Colony / Clayman

LS&S / Come Clarity / STYE / SOAPF

Reroute / ASOP / Foregone / ITM

Siren Charms / Battles


LS&S moves around a bit. If I split them, Subterranean would certainly always be higher than LS. I'm pretty high on Subterranean right now though, so it's in a good spot. The top will never change. In Flames will never again make an album that I would put next to those four. You could put the same line-ups in a room and tell them to write an In Flames record and they still wouldn't capture that magic.

 

[Pallbearer]

Noticed Drained won the best Battles song voting at r/InFlames. I know it’s all subjective but I still find it strange. For me Drained is probably a bottom 3 song, together with HUF and Through My Eyes. And on an album like Battles that’s saying something. As for the best song I would go for either Wallflower or The End.

 

[The Grayfox]

That is a bizarre pick for best song on that album. And Wallflower underrated? It's a semi-staple in their set. I personally think its the best song on Battles by far though. Looking at the table for best, underrated and worst for every album, it looks like most of this was chosen by people who just watch IF music videos on YouTube. I agree with some of the 'worst' category, but stuff like Only for the Weak being the best song on Clayman? Maybe I've just heard it too many times, but I'd put it on the back half of songs from Clayman. Superhero being voted worst on STYE over Bottled? Where the Dead Ships Dwell the best? Nonsense. Obviously this is all subjective stuff and Reddit is the last place I'd go for opinions on In Flames anyway.

 

[ThePhobiac]

Drained is probably one of the better songs on that album, in my view, but mostly because it reminds me of the Unstable album by Adema, which is the record that got me into heavy music. In Flames making a song like that is not ideal, but I give them a pass on it for that reason.

Best song has to go to either In My Room or Before I Fall. Never could get into Wallflower.

 

[DE4life]

A lot of people genuinely do seem to like Drained, or at least rate it as one of the best Battles songs. Now, that's a bit like calling Wednesday's shit the best shit of the week, but whatever. I disagree either way. I find it to be a pretty pathetic track devoid of any real merit. The lyrics are some of the worst ever penned by a sentient human being. 'You ripped da heart out, you ripped da heart out'.... shut the fuck up, bro. You're (at the time) 43 years old and this is what you're coming up with? The lyrics read like something out of a 12 year old's diary after their first breakup. It's absolutely embarrassing.

Also, I just don't like the lyrics very much. Hope that was made clear.

You want a song titled 'Drained' that is actually worthwhile? Try Hypocrisy.

 

[The Grayfox]

Man, Hypocrisy ballads are so fucking good. They're super dark. Drained, Slippin' Away, Paled Empty Sphere. Great stuff. Weird that Slippin' Away and Drained are back to back on Abducted though.

 

[GraemeSinclair]

I think I agree with your assessment for Reroute to Remain, though I’d also throw Egonomic and maybe Metaphor(?) on that list.

STYE:
The Quiet Place
I guess the end portion of Touch of Red, for whatever that’s worth

Pretty much in agreement with CC.

ASoP:
Eraser
Tilt (It’s a bit slow of a song, but there are many slow songs in their classic catalogue)
Disconnected (Particularly the guitarwork in the chorus, shit’s beautiful)
March to the Shore

SoaPF:
Ropes
Enter Tragedy
A New Dawn

SC:
Siren Charms (A classic IF version would ideally have vocals and lyrics that wouldn’t ruin the instrumentals for me)
When the World Explodes
Become the Sky(?)

Battles:
This album is fucked.

ITM:
Voices
I, The Mask
(Wish I could put We Will Remember, but the verses fuck it over)
Deep Inside
Stay With Me(?)

Clayman 2020:
lol lmao

Foregone:

TBOAT
SoSD (Maybe)
Foregone Pt.1
Foregone Pt.2, but only as part of the same track as Pt. 1
TGD
In the Dark
A Dialogue

That’s a lot more for Foregone than I expected, given that I hate how not-IF it sounds to me. Surely however, Pure Light of Mind will be the most IF song.

I'm interested in your thought process for choosing The Quiet Place! For me, it's a quintessentially Soundtrack to Your Escape song (and as you can tell, I think that Soundtrack along with Siren Charms and Battles collectively are the furthest removed from IF's Melodic Death Metal roots). I'm not disagreeing with your suggestion (there are no definite right and wrong answers, obviously), just trying to figure out how it might work. I guess the synth melody could be moved onto guitars (although it's a very minimalist melody in comparison to the twiddly, folk-influenced melodies typical of the classic IF sound). There are vocals similar to the verse vocals on both Colony and Clayman, make the chorus entirely harsh vocals like Only for the Weak - yeah, I guess OFTW would probably be the blueprint for translating TQP to the classic In Flames 'sound font'.

I always forget that there are some really nice guitar parts in Disconnected (that really DO have that twiddly, folk-influenced IF sound), because I just don't find the song that memorable as a whole. I guess some Whoracle growls would go a long way to making the vocals cooler, and classic IF production would definitely bring those guitar parts to the fore, they'd become the melodic focus of the chorus if the clean vocals were replaced with screams and growls.

Enter Tragedy is an interesting shout. Like Disconnected, replace the 'yell-singing' with traditional Anders harsh vocals and I think that would make a big difference to the overall timbre of the song. It'd definitely be on the Morphing Into Primal end of the melody-riffage spectrum (rather than the Swim end), also some of those riffs are in the 'new IF' mould that tend to use chromatic tones a lot more ,whereas their classic riffs tended to be natural minor or harmonic minor, but the main melodic figure of the song is -almost- Artifacts of the Black Rain with different phrasing, so it could work.

I considered Stay With Me too, which seems stupid considering it's a poppy ballad with soaring clean vocals. It's the guitars; the main melody is pure In Flames, twiddly, folky, natural minor, but also Björn's guitar parts (even the acoustic rhythm guitar) have a lot of movement, which is something I associate with classic In Flames (like Jotun, where the rhythm guitar part under the intro has as much melodic drive as the lead part, and you can really hear it when the rhythm part gets played 'naked' at the end of the song). I honestly don't know if I can see those vocals being replaced by older Anders vocals in the mould of Ordinary Story or Satellites and Astronauts, which is the main hangup I have, but instrumentally, I get it.

Glad to see so much Foregone on your list . I feel like if you strip out the overproduced clean vocals (which obviously would never exist in classic IF production anyway) there are plenty of instrumentals and harsh vocals that would translate really well.

Just to compound the aneurism I'm sure I've given @DE4life (sorry, pal), here is my present tier list.

TJR/Whoracle/Colony/Clayman
SOAPF/Come Clarity/Foregone
Reroute/Subterranean
Lunar Strain/STYE/I, The Mask
ASOP
Siren Charms
Battles

 

[DE4life]

You rate Siren Charms and Battles at the bottom so it's all good. The only opinion that would genuinely enrage me would be somebody suggesting either of those disasters were anything other than the two worst albums in the band's history. I always have time for someone who rates SOAPF highly as well. My colleague asked me the other day what album I'd want playing if I was in Dignitas waiting for the end. Weird and morbid question but they were reading some news article about it on the BBC website, so it wasn't just out of the blue.

Anyway, my first thought was SOAPF. It's interesting because I rate TJR/Whoracle/Colony/Clayman/Reroute higher in general, but I think SOAPF would give me the most peace and comfort overall. Listening to that album just gives me really good vibes.