The Grayfox
#MusicTheoryBro
Man, Hypocrisy ballads are so fucking good. They're super dark. Drained, Slippin' Away, Paled Empty Sphere. Great stuff. Weird that Slippin' Away and Drained are back to back on Abducted though.
New album Foregone out February 2023
- Thread starter TheJestersDoor
- Start date
I'm interested in your thought process for choosing The Quiet Place! For me, it's a quintessentially Soundtrack to Your Escape song (and as you can tell, I think that Soundtrack along with Siren Charms and Battles collectively are the furthest removed from IF's Melodic Death Metal roots). I'm not disagreeing with your suggestion (there are no definite right and wrong answers, obviously), just trying to figure out how it might work. I guess the synth melody could be moved onto guitars (although it's a very minimalist melody in comparison to the twiddly, folk-influenced melodies typical of the classic IF sound). There are vocals similar to the verse vocals on both Colony and Clayman, make the chorus entirely harsh vocals like Only for the Weak - yeah, I guess OFTW would probably be the blueprint for translating TQP to the classic In Flames 'sound font'.
I always forget that there are some really nice guitar parts in Disconnected (that really DO have that twiddly, folk-influenced IF sound), because I just don't find the song that memorable as a whole. I guess some Whoracle growls would go a long way to making the vocals cooler, and classic IF production would definitely bring those guitar parts to the fore, they'd become the melodic focus of the chorus if the clean vocals were replaced with screams and growls.
Enter Tragedy is an interesting shout. Like Disconnected, replace the 'yell-singing' with traditional Anders harsh vocals and I think that would make a big difference to the overall timbre of the song. It'd definitely be on the Morphing Into Primal end of the melody-riffage spectrum (rather than the Swim end), also some of those riffs are in the 'new IF' mould that tend to use chromatic tones a lot more ,whereas their classic riffs tended to be natural minor or harmonic minor, but the main melodic figure of the song is -almost- Artifacts of the Black Rain with different phrasing, so it could work.
I considered Stay With Me too, which seems stupid considering it's a poppy ballad with soaring clean vocals. It's the guitars; the main melody is pure In Flames, twiddly, folky, natural minor, but also Björn's guitar parts (even the acoustic rhythm guitar) have a lot of movement, which is something I associate with classic In Flames (like Jotun, where the rhythm guitar part under the intro has as much melodic drive as the lead part, and you can really hear it when the rhythm part gets played 'naked' at the end of the song). I honestly don't know if I can see those vocals being replaced by older Anders vocals in the mould of Ordinary Story or Satellites and Astronauts, which is the main hangup I have, but instrumentally, I get it.
Glad to see so much Foregone on your list
. I feel like if you strip out the overproduced clean vocals (which obviously would never exist in classic IF production anyway) there are plenty of instrumentals and harsh vocals that would translate really well. Just to compound the aneurism I'm sure I've given @DE4life (sorry, pal), here is my present tier list.
TJR/Whoracle/Colony/Clayman
SOAPF/Come Clarity/Foregone
Reroute/Subterranean
Lunar Strain/STYE/I, The Mask
ASOP
Siren Charms
Battles
You rate Siren Charms and Battles at the bottom so it's all good. The only opinion that would genuinely enrage me would be somebody suggesting either of those disasters were anything other than the two worst albums in the band's history. I always have time for someone who rates SOAPF highly as well. My colleague asked me the other day what album I'd want playing if I was in Dignitas waiting for the end. Weird and morbid question but they were reading some news article about it on the BBC website, so it wasn't just out of the blue.
Anyway, my first thought was SOAPF. It's interesting because I rate TJR/Whoracle/Colony/Clayman/Reroute higher in general, but I think SOAPF would give me the most peace and comfort overall. Listening to that album just gives me really good vibes.
Anyway, my first thought was SOAPF. It's interesting because I rate TJR/Whoracle/Colony/Clayman/Reroute higher in general, but I think SOAPF would give me the most peace and comfort overall. Listening to that album just gives me really good vibes.
mindd
Faithless by Default
Imo Battles and Foregone are the worst. I feel that Siren Charms is at least more honest than those two and I don't feel as repulsed by it
The Grayfox
#MusicTheoryBro
I've never really thought about it, but for me Siren Charms was more of a letdown than Battles was because we were coming off of SOAPF. I expected to get something like Battles after the disaster that was Siren Charms. Also, there are a few tracks on Battles that I can listen to whereas Siren Charms I view as a complete and utter failure of an album. I would rather listen to Battles than Siren Charms. The only positive thing I can say about Siren Charms is that I like the artwork.
There's two reasons I rank SC below Foregone:
1) Expectation. Grayfox explained it well above, but it's very much the same for me - I expected something decent after SOAPF. I knew, of course, that it was possible they'd put out something not quite as good, but I never imagined SC would be that bad. The lack of energy, the disjointed song structures, the amateurish production - it was far worse than anything I'd anticipated. As a result, it hit me harder (hit hit hit hit me harderrrr) than Foregone. ITM was OK but not anything too special. As long as they're working with Benson I always expect garbage, so when Foregone disappointed me this was not a surprise. I didn't feel angry like with SC - truth be told, I didn't really feel much at all. Just a shrug of the shoulders and an 'oh well'.
2) Musical competency. Whilst I find Foregone boring, there's nothing incompetent about it. Songs are structured sensibly, volume levels are accurate, instruments and vocals are in sync with each other. SC had none of this and felt like it was, at times, created and produced by a bunch of amateurs who were recording their first demo. Even Battles did a better job than SC, but I rate Battles at the bottom simply because it's a soulless husk of an album ghost-written by Benson and his cronies.
SC, Battles and Foregone are all in my bottom three for sure, but the first two are far bigger offenders to me, on a personal level, than Foregone. Foregone just doesn't interest me. SC and Battles were genuinely angering.
I can see a purpose behind SC. What I see behind battles and foregone is pure travestism. Those are albums whose only intention seems to appeal to specific audiences by bringing a message. In that regards, SC seems to be more honest while still being a failure.
Problem is, there is no point having any kind of message if you aren't willing to put in the effort to execute it properly. People got CDs with the volume messed up because the incompetence even filtered down to the manufacturing process. Now granted you can't really pin that on the band, but still, it pretty much sums up how SC was not taken seriously by anyone who mattered. Well - it was taken seriously by Anders. Nobody else. And his 'instrument' on its own is not enough to carry an album. SC may have been an honest effort from Anders, but I'm not convinced you can say the same for the rest of the band, as they do the bare minimum and within 2 years Daniel and Peter were both gone.
At least they took Foregone seriously - albeit in a very strange way. Put the singles out to make people think it's going to be a heavy album, then the rest of the CD is the same Benson butt rock/fake metal crap we've been doing for the past 8 years or so.
Nonetheless, I can understand why SC is almost universally despised and Foregone is not. The former is a half-finished mess with arguably one metal song on it with Everything's Gone, and that one sucks. Foregone is a complete album, with a few genuine metal tracks on there, some of which kind of looks like mid-2000s IF if you squint hard enough.
At least they took Foregone seriously - albeit in a very strange way. Put the singles out to make people think it's going to be a heavy album, then the rest of the CD is the same Benson butt rock/fake metal crap we've been doing for the past 8 years or so.
Nonetheless, I can understand why SC is almost universally despised and Foregone is not. The former is a half-finished mess with arguably one metal song on it with Everything's Gone, and that one sucks. Foregone is a complete album, with a few genuine metal tracks on there, some of which kind of looks like mid-2000s IF if you squint hard enough.
Funnily enough, whilst I would objectively rank Foregone above SC, if I had the choice of listening to a song from either album I'd probably pick something off SC. I actually find Through Oblivion and WEWO to be quite okay IF-style ballads. Foregone's attempt is Pure Light of Mind, which might actually be okay if Anders' voice wasn't processed to the point of absurdity. I can't really get past that.
The Grayfox
#MusicTheoryBro
It sucks that Pure Light of Mind is so processed sounding because as a whole I find it to be a pretty good song with a nice catchy chorus. The whole album is too though. The clean vocals sound fake as hell all the way around. Even though it doesn't feel like an honest album to me, I would probably find some enjoyment in it if it didn't feel so manufactured and fake on the clean vocal front.
I tend to agree. I think with less Benson and more Anders/Bjorn this track could have been on the same tier as the other ballads in their catalogue. It just tips too far into manufactured territory. especially when it comes to the processing of the vocals.
First 12 seconds, very nice. Got that In Flames vibe for sure. Becomes a bit more arena-rockish but I'm still OK with it. It's a good song opening.
When we get to the verse, I have two thoughts. Firstly, the vocal rhythm and melody is really good. The 'I know my days are numbered' line is one of very few from Foregone that I remember. Throughout this song and indeed Foregone as a whole, the vocal melodies are structured extremely well. I'm guessing this is mostly Benson's work, as when you compare to Siren Charms it's night and day. SC is amateur hour in this regard, whereas Foregone is perfectly crafted. Almost too much, but it would be churlish for me to take points off for being pretty much spot on. Second thought, the vocals sound silly. Even more so when you know it's supposed to be Anders. It sounds nothing like him. Hard to take it seriously even though technically it's solid.
I don't understand why there's growling underneath the pre-chorus vocals and why "I won't be long" is growled. Makes no sense to me. There's no reason to not just sing this.
The pre-chorus and chorus have some nice guitarwork going on throughout, and the vocal melodies are once again spot on, and during the chorus you can even almost hear Anders rather than ProTools AI.
When the second verse starts, something becomes noticeable that has been bugging me throughout the song. These lyrics don't sound like something Anders would write. Compare the PLoM lyrics to almost anything else from IF back catalogue and they just feel out of place. The lyrics read like they've been written by Benson or one of his cronies for some random butt rock band. 'You took the car heading down south' - down south where, exactly? Who took the car? The more I look at the lyrics, the more vapid and empty they appear. It's just a bunch of cliché's and totally unoriginal lines. Almost every line is like this, honestly. It adds to that fake feeling that seems to permeate Foregone, even on the better tracks.
Anyway, overall - nice song, but largely soulless. Classic Benson.
The Grayfox
#MusicTheoryBro
I really don't like when bands start bringing in people to write with them. I know it's their prerogative and they can do whatever they want, fair enough. But it is usually done in an effort to become more mainstream. Again, you can't fault somebody for wanting their music to make money. It just feels dishonest in some weird way. When Metallica did it in 1990 with Bob Rock, it led to their most commercially successful album. There's also a drastic shift in the music and lyrics from Justice to the Black Album. It's the same with many bands, including In Flames. As soon as they brought on Benson, nothing good happened to the music. Maybe success wise it did? I don't know, but it certainly didn't benefit the music. He tried to ruin the legacy of Clayman for fuck's sake. Ok, probably not, but that's my narrative and I'm sticking with it.
Oh man... I think that the black album is highly overrated and full of fillers, though everyone loves it. And, since it was released, they weren't able to release a single good album and still have become the most popular metal band in the world.
Why doe bands rely on external writers? Maybe it's about the reputation of the person writing for them. Or maybe it's the inability to write what they have in mind. Maybe it's a lack of personality of the band members. But, if they heavily rely in other people to write their songs I don't see how they are their songs anymore.
Why doe bands rely on external writers? Maybe it's about the reputation of the person writing for them. Or maybe it's the inability to write what they have in mind. Maybe it's a lack of personality of the band members. But, if they heavily rely in other people to write their songs I don't see how they are their songs anymore.
I don't mind the Black Album. My favourite Metallica album is MoP with Ride the Lightning and Kill Em All tied as a close second. My unpopular opinion is that I don't like AJFA. Never have. I like the concept and ideas behind the album - but the music doesn't interest me.
Zero interest in anything they did post-1990. Except Some Kind of Monster - that documentary is a hilarious look at what happens when a group of entitled manchildren have too much money.
Zero interest in anything they did post-1990. Except Some Kind of Monster - that documentary is a hilarious look at what happens when a group of entitled manchildren have too much money.
The Grayfox
#MusicTheoryBro
AJFA is an acquired taste. It certainly isn't their best sounding album. But I think what I do enjoy about it is it's full of raw energy. After Cliff passed away, James was beside himself and it came out in his writing. I would argue that it's their most technical and fastest record and also features one of my favorite Metallica songs of all time, which is Blackened. They have a few songs post-Black Album that I do enjoy, but I wouldn't say there is a full album that I love. Even an album like Load which so many people hate I can find some enjoyment in. Songs like Bleeding Me and The Outlaw Torn are fantastic, but there are more songs on that album that I don't like than ones I do.
I like AJFA but not too much. The sound is a handicap. The riffs are cool but I have always felt that it's too long, which makes it kinda boring.
My favourite must be MOP, then RTL and KEA.
I agree that there are some interesting songs in the following albums but they're not enough to justify the reputation that they have gained among the metal community.
My favourite must be MOP, then RTL and KEA.
I agree that there are some interesting songs in the following albums but they're not enough to justify the reputation that they have gained among the metal community.
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