New album Foregone out February 2023

[DE4life]

Holy shit there's someone out there with good taste.

But nah, I don't rank SC these days because I find it impossible to compare to the rest of their catalogue. I used to have it as top three. I will say that the title track is my favorite off that record, but I wouldn't say it's the best of their '10s music (that would probably be A New Dawn or Voices).

I'm not sure I could argue that SC is objectively good or bad because as the late Lou Reed once said, you either like it or you don't. It's not rocket science. It just happens to click just right with me. That's why I cringe when I see some of the positive reactions that try to justify why it's good, because I actually don't agree with a lot of them. Some of the songs on that record don't really work or needed more time in the oven (In Plain View, Everything's Gone, Rusted Nail). Anders doesn't sound fantastic on some of it. But the rest makes up for it, for me at least.

What makes me cringe is the people who say SC, Battles, and ITM are a string of good IF albums, or that they're in any sense a trilogy or a series. As a SC fan I refuse to group it with Battles and ITM. SC was an experimental effort and you can argue whether it worked for you or not, while Battles and ITM were retreats into design-by-committee music (less so with ITM, which was a step in the right direction).

I think that's a fair summary of your position and I'd agree that SC doesn't really fit in with the rest of the IF catalogue at all, which is why I've always said it would have been better released as a side project. It would have been weird to do so, though, considering it was the same band members.

It's interesting that the title track is your favourite - it really bothers me how the verse vocals and instruments aren't in tandem at all. I actually find it difficult to listen to. The chorus has some merit but doesn't necessarily feel like it fits in with the rest of the song when I listen to it. The song as a whole is quite chaotic structurally. I guess that works for you though!

 

[eochaid]

I remember reading an interview where Bjorn said Anders didn't even tell the rest of the band that there was going to be a female singer on 'When the World Explodes'. The first he and Peter knew about it was when they were listening to some of the songs from the studio whilst driving and were shocked to hear the changes. I couldn't help but read that and think what a shitty way to go about things from a band perspective.

Makes me wonder what's the role (importance) of Bjorn in the band. They seem to pretend that he and Anders are equals but it doesn't seem like it. More like he's the only one left that can make the music.

It's interesting that the title track is your favourite - it really bothers me how the verse vocals and instruments aren't in tandem at all. I actually find it difficult to listen to. The chorus has some merit but doesn't necessarily feel like it fits in with the rest of the song when I listen to it. The song as a whole is quite chaotic structurally. I guess that works for you though!

This happens with a few of the songs. IPV is a great example of that.

 

[DE4life]

Makes me wonder what's the role (importance) of Bjorn in the band. They seem to pretend that he and Anders are equals but it doesn't seem like it. More like he's the only one left that can make the music.

Whenever you hear these stories it does seem to be about Anders either cutting out or changing Bjorn's ideas - even going back as far as 2002, when Bjorn wrote Metaphor as an instrumental and Anders decided to add vocals to it. I can't remember a situation where it was in reverse, and Anders' ideas were cut or changed by the other band members. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't think there's ever been an interview where that scenario has been mentioned.

This happens with a few of the songs. IPV is a great example of that.

It happens with almost all of them. It's a running theme throughout the album, that the vocals are doing one thing and the instruments are doing the other, with only the choruses seeming to have any kind of synergy. Only real exceptions are the slower, simpler songs like With Eyes Wide Open, Through Oblivion and Dead Eyes. It makes me wonder what the producer was doing during these sessions. There is so much on SC that any producer worth a damn would highlight and say 'guys, this needs work'. Maybe he did and they ignored him.

 

[eochaid]

when Bjorn wrote Metaphor as an instrumental and Anders decided to add vocals to it

Almost but not that. Metaphor and Dawn of a New Day were going to be instrumentals and Anders asked if he could add vocals.

What happened to Metaphor was that Bjorn did some solo work and it was erased and replaced in the final cut. Bjorn only knew when he listened to that final cut. Which is, frankly, worse than adding vocals without even asking. Also, having in mind that Anders was close friend with the producer, that was not a nice movement.

Maybe that's the reason as to why, in the following albums, music and vocals were made separately and no one was allowed to meddle with the other part. That was for sure the "compromise" thing that Anders was talking about in the video that enraged Jesper a few years ago.

 

[DE4life]

Almost but not that. Metaphor and Dawn of a New Day were going to be instrumentals and Anders asked if he could add vocals.

What happened to Metaphor was that Bjorn did some solo work and it was erased and replaced in the final cut. Bjorn only knew when he listened to that final cut. Which is, frankly, worse than adding vocals without even asking. Also, having in mind that Anders was close friend with the producer, that was not a nice movement.

Maybe that's the reason as to why, in the following albums, music and vocals were made separately and no one was allowed to meddle with the other part. That was for sure the "compromise" thing that Anders was talking about in the video that enraged Jesper a few years ago.

Hmm yeah, I can remember being quite surprised when I read that vocals & instruments were recorded totally separately for the Come Clarity sessions, and there was basically no collaboration between Anders and the rest of the band. Probably why it sounds so different to literally everything else post-Clayman. STYE sessions I'm a bit confused about. We know they rented a house in Denmark to record STYE, so they were all together during that period. But also Anders said in an interview he was surprised when he heard the lack of guitar melodies in the final product, so it sounds like the process itself was quite splintered even though they were recording together in the same location.

 

[eochaid]

If you see the ASOP documentary, you can see them working their thing and Anders doing it separately. No one seems to really be involved with the other side.

 

[DE4life]

What's frustrating with modern IF is for them to have talented guitar players like Engelin and Broderick and not use them for anything creative. Bjorn wrote with Jesper, so why won't be write with anybody else? It's not like his output is so inspired that nothing else is needed.

 

[eochaid]

I guess that's because Anders wants to keep control of the creative process. With Bjorn that's quite easy. He creates some music, Anders and the producer change it until it's not recognizable anymore. Bjorn agrees and says that's better.

 

[DE4life]

It's a shame because Anders & Bjorn don't seem to be a very creative duo as far as songwriting is concerned. They did well on SOAPF, but SC & Battles were terrible, and ITM was fine but nothing special. They really miss Jesper's ear for melody and his innate ability to structure songs in an interesting way. You had basically the same issue with Cyhra. Letters to Myself had Jesper's influence all over it and that made the album interesting, even if it wasn't top tier level. NHIH had minimal Jesper involvement and Jake on his own could only create a functional album with OK song structures but no real variety or creative intent.

 

[galvanized]

What's frustrating with modern IF is for them to have talented guitar players like Engelin and Broderick and not use them for anything creative. Bjorn wrote with Jesper, so why won't be write with anybody else? It's not like his output is so inspired that nothing else is needed.

Unfortunately the latest DT album is the same. They have crazy guitar virtuosos on board, barely doing a damn thing. They wrote the album without the guitarists, then brought them in at the end. Why? Wait longer and practice together more, it was a stupid mistake.

 

[eochaid]

I've recently read an interview with Bruce Dickinson about how they (he and Adrian Smith) approach the process of writing a song and it's so different from what IF does... It's, mostly, a collaborative process. It might start with a riff or a pattern and then, they start writing the song, deciding what's good or bad together, where to put a chorus or if what they thought was a chorus then becomes something else.

As it was explained, it's a fluid process.

Even when S Harris writes on his own, he still explains to the rest of the band what's expected of them and the recording process has all of the members teaming together playing the whole song or sections of the song.

Now, compare it to what IF did and does. Before, it was the music on one side and the vocals on the other. Not a collaborative effort but simply adaptation. Now, is still something similar. But, there's also the fact that not all members, at least the members that matter, are involved in the production and mixing process.

Bjorn only knows what has been done after he is listening to, basically, the final cut. I don't know how someone can be happy with it. And I don't understand why the decisions are being made by the both of them as a team.

 

[DE4life]

Bjorn doesn't have a confrontational personality, and he's lazy. He'll let Anders do most of the work and even if his riffs, solos or whatever else gets cut, never mind, it's not like he's putting that much effort into it anyway. The reason Jesper was pissed off by it was probably because he was putting genuine effort into writing his riffs and melodies, only for Anders to trample over it with his vocals.

I was listening to the Deliver Us instrumental version the other day and there's actually a lot of nice guitar work in there which is masked in the song itself by Anders' vocals. Not that his vocals are bad in the song, they just drown out a lot of cool little things Bjorn had contributed.

 

[eochaid]

I don't understand why he keeps on putting what could be interesting melodies in parts where they're not going to be noticed.

 

[DE4life]

I don't understand why he keeps on putting what could be interesting melodies in parts where they're not going to be noticed.

Because he doesn't know where the vocals are going to be until he hears the final product.

 

[eochaid]

I don't think so. I mean, he's creating formulaic music. Intro, verse, pre chorus, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, chorus, repeat intro.

He must, at least, have some kind of intuition as to where the vocals are going to be.

 

[DE4life]

Hard to say without knowing how the creative process works for Bjorn. He can predict where some of the vocals will be, but not necessarily the pattern or the amount of layers added to them.

 

[eochaid]

That's true. That makes a significant difference. Also, the presence of the guitars, in the mix, specially during the choruses, has been lowered a lot.

I'm thinking about songs like I Am the Highway where we can clearly listen to the "solo" guitar that's accompanying the chorus in comparison to that guitar that's only being suggested in the chorus to Rusted Nail.

 

[DE4life]

Blackburn 0-7 Fulham... FUCK

 

[DE4life]

That's true. That makes a significant difference. Also, the presence of the guitars, in the mix, specially during the choruses, has been lowered a lot.

I'm thinking about songs like I Am the Highway where we can clearly listen to the "solo" guitar that's accompanying the chorus in comparison to that guitar that's only being suggested in the chorus to Rusted Nail.

I listened to Delight and Angers instrumental right after Deliver Us... it was actually really boring. That's a song where vocal melodies were literally designed to carry everything. I actually enjoyed listening to Deliver Us instrumental. Delight and Angers was boring.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

Random one but we have been talking about Ander's vocals, have any of you heard the Night Fiends (Tanner Wayne's weird little project) song with Anders, Lost Without A Trace? He actually sounds really good on it. Bad lyrics aside that is. Definitely the best vocal performance for 10 years, sounds like something off of SOAPF. by modern standards, great. Completely different sounding to the last 3 albums. Just another reason I'm so desperate for the next IF album to be recorded and produced in Sweden, far away from Howard Benson