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Jester Slave
Narcissist
Lmao, okay.
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/fo...tling-severe-depression-and-anxiety-problems/ - "I am battling severe depression and anxiety problems, and have done for over 20 years now. " Jesper
http://noisecreep.com/in-flames-friden-interview-jesper-stromblad-alcoholism/ - "We've known each other for so long and we've seen him struggle with his addiction, and whatever problems come along with the addiction, for quite some time. [...] I mean, we all miss him as the person, Jesper. It looks more different and looks like a struggle from the outside, when people look into the band, but we've been living with this for such a long time and we've been struggling with this issue for more years than you can imagine, and we just tried to keep it hidden from the public. I don't want to take away anything from Jesper because it's been really significant for our sound, but he has not been the one holding everyone together." Anders
https://www.loudersound.com/news/in-flames-jesper-didn-t-quit-over-drink - “I would never go into details why I quit, but there is always one official story and there is the other – alcohol is quite a small part of it.” Jesper
http://www.empireextreme.com/in-fla...inking-ship-comment-he-doesnt-really-mean-it/ - "He is a constant supporter of IN FLAMES. Sometimes he says bad stuff online, but he doesn’t really mean it. It’s just exactly like I said — you get angry for five minutes and then you wish you wouldn’t have said it, but then the whole world has read it." - Peter
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/fo...r-stromblad-saved-the-resistance-by-quitting/ - "[Jesper] got upset with [our statement regarding his split with the band]. I don't know why. But he's an addict, and he can scream and yell, and then the next day he's calm and the best guy in the world. It's always been like that with Jesper — as long as I've known him. He's really the sweetest guy ever when you talk to him when he's sober and stuff, when he's got his act together. Otherwise it's a nightmare."
"I think he's kind of frustrated right now, because THE RESISTANCE also failed, like IN FLAMES. They didn't 'fail,' but they got rid of him. I think there's some real nasty frustration in him right now."
"According to Rob, THE RESISTANCE's issues with Jesper had a negative effect on the recording process for "Coup De Grâce". He said: "It was a fucking mess. It was me and [drummer] Chris [Barkensjö, ex-KAAMOS, GRAVE] holding the band together" The Resistance guy
"I am alcoholic and the band suffered a lot for that, but stuff happened during that time that changed my mind about a lot and the direction I personally wanted to go." Jesper
5:05 "He had to leave the band because of a disease, so to speak. His alcohol problem" Anders
Okay, let me try to tie in these threads now...
Jesper admits that he has been an alcoholic for over 20 years now in 2015. That means his addiction started before 1995, which could mean 1994 but 1990 as well. Doesn't matter right now. The Resistance guy who claims he knows him for a long ass time said that Jesper has always been like this. He was either living a cheerful period (you can see in the documentaries that he could barely hurt a fly), or a hateful asshole period. Remember, we are talking <1995 here. ASOP was recorded in 2007, that means by that point they have been with this issue as a band for more than 12 years.
Now, we know for a fact that fame increases one's addiction. It's tons of pressure and people are just not prepared for that; many famous people died from addiction, even during the height of their careers. Suicide should also be ruled here, as addiction, depression and suicide walk hand in hand most of these cases - also, Jesper admitted he has been dealing with depression as well. We may ASSUME that things got worse around R2R and the hefty touring cycles. Chester Bennington and Chris Cornell committed suicide while on tour, and Trent Reznor almost died from overdose while on tour as well, just to name some examples.
Anders admitted that Jesper had to leave due to his alcohol problem. Now guys, have you ever read a statement about departures from a band? If you did, I'm sure you all read the words musical differences, which is the go to bullshit to avoid drama. You have to be extremely naive to believe that. Also, Anders, who has never talked shit about Jesper, not even after his ugly comments recently (past few years), it is extremely unlikely for him to not stick with the musicial differences excuse, especially if that's the truth, right? Why would someone who always derails the discussion about Jesper and never responds to his childish attacks would make up this fake story?
There are many breakups where band members point the finger at one-another, for example Slayer and Dave Lombardo; in these cases, someone is usually not telling the truth, and these people are very adamant to talk about their issue. Dave has many videos where he shits on Slayer. In Anders' case, he always try to refer to this as demons, personal issues, etc., and you have to force these things out of him.
Moving on, we have Peter Iwers being the best fucking friend you can ever imagine. Absolute class. The way he managed to translate "guys, he was drunk and depressed again, it was just an episode, please don't make a big deal out of it" is something to aspire for. Also, what does it tell about your credibility when one of your friend says that you are not actually serious, you were just dru---, erm, very mad and bitter?
The best argument against the "Jesper was kicked out because of his addiction" is Jesper's saying that.... it's not true. That's all. He won't tell you the real reason, but it wasn't alcohol. He gladly talks about how terrible In Flames is today, how shitty Anders' voice is and how he is an overall dick, or how they have never been in a good relationship, so he tells us all of this, but he won't tell us why he had to leave?
Come on.And finally, the resistance guy revealed how it is working with Jesper. Do you think in his 20+ years of addiction, this was his first time of absolutely sabotaging a recording process? Do you think it's a complete accident, that both Anders and the Resistance guy said that it's definitely not Jesper who held the band together?
Seriously, I won't fucking waste a single second on this issue again if you guys refuse to see from your own eyes, because if these stuff can't convince you, then you are in some serious denial. The most upsetting thing is that you are covering for an abusive relationship between friends and collegues, which you couldn't tolerate either. I'd be very curious how long you could last with a girlfriend/wife who suffers from the same level of depression and alcoholism Jesper does. I'm SURE you guys could find a way to deal with it easy-peasy, and only managing to endure it for 12+ years is laughable to you. Yeah, right.
Living with, being friends with, and generally dealing with someone who has an alcohol use disorder, also known as alcoholism, can be challenging. An alcoholic can cause a number of issues, from damaging relationships to avoiding responsibilities and even being abusive in some cases.
[...] these can help an individual understand if someone they live with or care about is struggling with alcoholism:
- Trying to drink less but failing repeatedly
- Spending an inordinate amount of time thinking about drinking, acquiring alcohol, drinking, and recovering from hangovers
- Not meeting responsibilities or experiencing declining performance at work or school because of drinking
[...] If you do have someone in your life showing signs of alcohol use disorder, it can be hard to know what to say or do. It is helpful to plan and practice what you want to say. Things can get heated, and it is important to be ready to deliver a clear, simple message in a calm and even way.
[...]Ultimately, a person who has a drinking problem has to be willing to try to stop and to accept help or nothing will change. Everyone has different limits, but know yours and know when it’s time to leave a relationship or even the home if necessary. A sensible limit may be when a family member refuses to get help after many offers of support or when a person’s drinking causes them to become abusive.
It may be easier to walk away from a friendship than a family member, but in either case there may be a time when dealing with the situation is no longer viable. You can always return to the relationship if and when the person decides to get help, but until then you have to consider your own needs and health, which sometimes means extracting yourself from the situation. [...]
- https://www.altamirarecovery.com/alcoholism/dealing-with-an-alcoholic/
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So your citations say that he left the band...
Case closed. Everything else belongs to your imagination.
Case closed. Everything else belongs to your imagination.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
You can't actually be this dumb. This is some kindergarden-level bullshit, playing with double meaning sentences and pretending you are too dumb to understand what it means being forced out of a band. I bet you think when people leave their job with a mutual agreement it was actually mutual, lol.
I love how when Slave comes up with speculation from interview quotes it's solid evidence, no way it could be wrong bro, etc. But when we do the same it's bullshit and reading things wrong classic Slave.
Jesper actually disputed Anders' version of events, and Rob admitted his comments came when he was really bitter and frustrated and he'd since made peace with Jesper.
Creating your own narrative is cool, Slave, but don't consider yourself ace detective quite yet.
classic Slave.Jesper actually disputed Anders' version of events, and Rob admitted his comments came when he was really bitter and frustrated and he'd since made peace with Jesper.
Creating your own narrative is cool, Slave, but don't consider yourself ace detective quite yet.
You're reaching to conclusions based on your own desires. That doesn't make them a fact.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
> Anders literally says he had to leave because of [Jesper's] drug problems.I love how when Slave comes up with speculation from interview quotes it's solid evidence, no way it could be wrong bro, etc. But when we do the same it's bullshit and reading things wrong
> I'm speculating
wew lad..........
Yes, Jesper said "not true", and left it at that. Solid.
And what did Rob admitted to? Did he say he fabricated everything he said, or that he said those things because he was angry? There is a difference. What does making peace have to do with a statement being
> Anders literally says he had to leave because of [Jesper's] drug problems.
> I'm reaching conclusions
You guys manage to look worse than the average Facebook commenter, it's not even funny for some time now. I really wish you to end up with spuses like Jesper. Internet trolls are only being a smartass about abusive people until they don't end up with one themselves.
Fact is you're speculating, matey. You might not like it but that's how it is. Take a deep breath and relax. Nobody really cares.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt
We can play the game of:
- The Holocaust didn't happen!
- Yes it did!
- How do you know?
- Well it is documented, we have pictures, soldiers saw the bodies, survivors told all the same stories, etc.
- Were you there?
- No, but...
- Check-mate.
but what is the point? Jesper was kicked out/forced to leave from In Flames because of his problems with alcohol. That doesn't make it untrue that he did not like their musical way or that he was not in good terms with Anders.
Watch 12 Angry Men, and imagine if all Henry Fonda's character could say is "yeah guys, you are just speculating!" It would have been a really fucking short movie, wouldn't it? You brought up zero arguments of any sort, other than "well, you never know for sure, now do ya'?". Not impressive to say the least.
That's still speculation. You want it to hapoen. That doesn't make it true.
False analogy.We can play the game of:
- The Holocaust didn't happen!
- Yes it did!
- How do you know?
- Well it is documented, we have pictures, soldiers saw the bodies, survivors told all the same stories, etc.
- Were you there?
- No, but...
- Check-mate.
You should compare it with the existence of god.
Does god exist? Well there are things that I don't understand and everything seems to be so fine that a god must exist.
That's what you're doing when talking about Jesper and In Flames.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Why so? In 12 Angry Men a kid is being put up to the jury for murdering his father with a knife. A witness heard shouting, then a body dropping to the floor. Another witness saw it happen from the opposite house. They found a knife which could have been associated with both the kid and the murder. The kid's alibi was that he was in the cinema that time, but he couldn't remember which movies he saw. 11 people out of 12 voted guilty, because there wasn't a REASONABLE DOUBT that the kid is innocent. "There can still be a doubt, but only to the extent that it would not affect a reasonable person's belief regarding whether or not the defendant is guilty." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt
I won't explain what reasonable doubt means, here's the Spanish version: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duda_razonable
God existence fails completely out of the "sane man" requirement of reasonable doubt. God is supposedly a transcendent being, who can not be seen, can not be heard. Can anyone prove that the reason you can't hear or see him is because he does not exist, and not because he is simply out of our reach? The legitimacy of God could not be concluded by a jury, so forget about that crap.
Jesper's case is very much compareable with 12 Angry Men. We have two band members from two different bands saying the same thing: he had serious issues with his alcoholism and he had a bad effect on the group. Jesper himself admitted to his depression and alcoholism. He had to be replaced before the ASOP tour on a short notice. His public media outbursts all fuel the notion that he is someone with mental health issues, or the very least mood issues. His defence is that "it's not true. he knows the truth, but he won't tell us". 11 out of 12 jury members would instantly vote guilty.
Why? Because there is no reasonable doubt that his alcoholic and depressive tendencies did not have the same negative impact on In Flames (during a much longer period of time!!!) than it had on The Resistance. It doesn't matter if The Resistance, or the stabbed to dead father forgives Jesper or the kid; the "crime" happened.
Now, Harry Fonda brought up some amazing argument during the movie, and he managed to challenge these seemingly atomic shelter strong arguments against the kid's innocence. When you are against such a compelling argument for one's guilt, you can't just "lol, you wasn't there". At that point, you are just being a troll, and if you are adamant on not using your brain, they will have a hung jury, they will find another 12 men, and there are good chances that they will instantly vote with 12 guilties.
At the end of the movie, the kid was saved with 12 innocent votes to 0 guilty. Was the kid innocent? We never knew, but Harry Fonda's character used such good arguments, that he created a reasonable doubt. And if there is a reasonable doubt of someone's guilt, then you can't sentence them guilty.
But once again, "no", "you don't know", "only you say this" - when I literally quoted two other people saying it zzzzz are NOT arguments that would shift the votes in the jury. And yes, even without a reasonable doubt, we don't know for 100% that the person was guilty or not.
That's not what yhe bible and thousands of insane people say.
As for Jesper. The fact that they did not say tbat he was expelled doesn't necessarily imply that he was not expelled. But, until something else is said, you're just pretending that an assumption, your assumption, is a fact. Well. It is not unless it is proven a fact.
Something similar happens with god. Some people finds proof of his existance and assume that it exists. Does this make him real? No.
Unless god did it! I mean, what if god is behind of Jesper's departure from the band? That way Christian Joe entered the band, made Anders a born again christian and the next album is an ode to god and an international success that leads to the renaissance of christianism.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
It's not a fact, but that is the most likely scenario. Until someone brings up some stuff that may prove it otherwise, we have no reason to think that he wasn't forced to leave. I mean, your very best argument would be that he was not kicked, he was "just" literally unable to be a band member to any capacity, so he chose to leave the band in his frustration with himself, and the others let him go. I'd say this is a plausible scenario as well, although I'd challenge it, since addicts are usually not fully aware of how destructive they are to themselves or their environment of friends and collegues.
But to think that after a record, which HE LIKED, and days before the tour where he could play the goddamn songs HE LIKED, he was like "you know what? I don't like the musical direction of the band, and I also don't like the money that would come with this tour. I think a few days before the tour starts is a fucking good time to tell the folks that I'm out, because they suck!" is not reasonable at all.
It's strange that you believe Jesper's words when he says he liked ASOP, but disbelieve when he says Anders' side of the story isn't correct and alcohol was only one of many reasons for leaving.
Make up your mind, do you trust him or not?
Make up your mind, do you trust him or not?
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Just do a favor and don't troll around, lol. I mean bravo, you are killing a discussion by pretending to be dumb, great. We know for a fact that there were paid trolls on the internet who successfully derailed political discussions, so you really don't have to prove your point.
Life is not black or white. We have evidence against his claim that alcohol barely played a part in his departure. Many evidence from trustworthy and non-related sources. However, we have no evidence against his claims about ASOP, so we have no reason to believe he was lying - he could be, of course.
But as I said, if you don't want to take it seriously, just don't mind the matter.
He didn't say alcohol "barely" played a part in his departure, only that there were other factors involved that people don't pay attention to.
Obviously in your case you desperately want Jesper to be the worst piece of shit in the entire world, so you push the narrative that he was an abusive, drunken asshole who got kicked out of the band and raged about them for years afterwards - when in fact it was more likely a mutual decision based on a number of factors including alcohol abuse, and since then Jesper has made, what, two or three FB posts bashing IF/Anders which he deleted straight away afterwards? What a bastard. Hang him. Shouldn't be allowed to breathe oxygen.
Srsly Slave, if you could see it, if you could see it through his eyes...
Obviously in your case you desperately want Jesper to be the worst piece of shit in the entire world, so you push the narrative that he was an abusive, drunken asshole who got kicked out of the band and raged about them for years afterwards - when in fact it was more likely a mutual decision based on a number of factors including alcohol abuse, and since then Jesper has made, what, two or three FB posts bashing IF/Anders which he deleted straight away afterwards? What a bastard. Hang him. Shouldn't be allowed to breathe oxygen.
Srsly Slave, if you could see it, if you could see it through his eyes...
Jester Slave
Narcissist
“I would never go into details why I quit, but there is always one official story and there is the other – alcohol is quite a small part of it.”
Yeah, I think I'm done with this. I hope there is a God, so I can pray to him that you are just fucking around, and not being an ignorant fuck.
Then again, it's not like you would be the first person who would willingly go down that road: https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/1044658235997806592
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