New DREAM THEATER thoughts....

[AngraRULES]

Here's what I have to say to the "little girls who're afraid of growls"

BOO HOO!

And I agree with shaq, the only ones bitching must be the same ones who said Russ was growling on Paradise Lost. Do yourself a fucking favor and go learn what growling really is.

PS. The new DT songs are kickass!

 

[Diamond45]

I will say this. The growls that Serenity uses fits like a glove and I don't know why.

I could take or leave growls (mostly leave). Sometimes a band will throw in growls just because they felt some growls were needed.

Growls properly inserted can and do work, but sometimes they're a distraction. Just depends on the band.

 

[mëtålspëd]

I'm here for the extreme DT growlies

 

[Wyvern]

I've been a fan of DT for a long time. Except for "Live At Budokan" I have all their albums. But since MP2-SFAM it has been a hit and miss for me. TOT is plain horrible with maybe 66% of the album acceptable being the instrumental and 'Vacant' the best which saids a lot about it. "Octavarium" was an improvement specially the title song that has a lot of Pink Floyd vibe but then comes SC and again they go for those new-Metallica type sounds on songs 3 and 4 that suck big time. Luckily the album have true gems like 'Minsitry Of Lost Souls' and 'Prophets Of War'.
The fact with DT is that is their latest albums have been inconsistent they always manage to have a great song in the CD that makes me forgive them But seriously they need right now:

a) a good producer
b) to left the growling/nu-vocals for Cannibal Corpse or System Of A Down and learn a bit from bands like Edensong about melodic vocals and progressive mentality

But let's see what the new one can offer and then I get back here to praise or rant.

P.S. And great news, Transatlantic it's going to re-unite :Smokin:

 

[zedowns]

I can't remember the last time a Dream Theater song gave me chills, but the soft part in A Nightmare to Remember did just that. Outside of a few moments (Portnoy's vocals... MORE than made up for with some killer drumming though) this was really awesome stuff.

A Rite of Passage didn't do as much for me as ANtR, but still great, loved the instrumental section.

Nobody, barring MAYBE Circus Maximus, does this style of Prog Metal better than DT.

 

[rushzil2112]

I think the growls would of been more effective if they would of brought in a guest to do them, like Mikael from Opeth or the singer from Between the Buried and Me, because Mike's vocals are weak and don't do the part justice, he should just stick to drumming. I think these 2 songs show promise(mainly the first song, rites of passage wasn't horrible but not like the first song), but I hope there aren't any more blast beats because Portnoy's on the first song was weak, he needs to talk to Axenrot and get him to teach him how to properly blast.

 

[SavaDude]

Where can I hear this stuff?? I am dyin to hear it!

 

[dcowboys311]

LMAO ALL GROWLIES SOUND THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!

I know. But the funny thing is, I dont know anyone that likes that growling crap that likes RAP, but the two are pretty much the same. In fact, usually in rap you can understand the words. Ill take melody over noise, or over rythm in either case. Just my opinion. =)

I do. You obviously don't know anything about either rap or extreme metal so just don't contribute to the discussion.

 

[SavaDude]

LMAO!
Well, I am particularly GLAD that I know nothing of rap or that noise my lawnmower makes when it is stuck on a big patch of grass. And if I recall, this discussion is open to all opinions. So thanks for your tip, but I am going to have to pass. =)

 

[SavaDude]

Anyway, again, is there a link to where I can get those songs? Or listen to them? I for one have been a DT fan since day one, and am really looking forward to hearing the new stuff!

 

[sccaldwell]

It is just you, man.

Actually, it isn't just him.

 

[sccaldwell]

A million bands sing with no growls too, are they being redundant too?

Huge difference. When someone is doing the "growl" stuff, there's not a lot of melody (ie. variation in pitch) in their vocal. As a result, to my ears, most growlers sound pretty much the same in every single noise they make... You could switch the vocals around from track to track and most people couldn't tell the difference.

An actual SINGer, however, uses these amazing things called "notes" that work to make each vocal different.

Craig <<----- despises growling AND rap 99.99% of the time.

 

[SavaDude]

Huge difference. When someone is doing the "growl" stuff, there's not a lot of melody (ie. variation in pitch) in their vocal. As a result, to my ears, most growlers sound pretty much the same in every single noise they make... You could switch the vocals around from track to track and most people couldn't tell the difference.

An actual SINGer, however, uses these amazing things called "notes" that work to make each vocal different.

Craig <<----- despises growling AND rap 99.99% of the time.

Rap and growling are almost purely rythmic. Honestly, I think rapping takes more skill, truth be told. I also never understood why you would write lyrics that no one could understand.
A friend of mine in a Brazillian death metal band laughed when I told him that, and he said he usually DOESNT write lyrics at all because no one would understand them anyway. He said that he just goes onstage and makes a bunch of noise. When they do thier albums, they have to go back and rethink what he did live and add lyrics, but he told me that it doesnt matter because he could do exactly the same thing on every track and no one could tell the difference. I am not going to divulge the name of the band, but they have several albums out and it is likely you have heard of them.
Growling, much like rap, is about attitude and vibe more than substance. I can appreciate that idea, but I am going to have to agree with you, it is noise to my ears. Unfortunately, there are so many fantastic bands that write truly amazing music that FOR ME (notice that I am being sure that this stands out) is completely ruined by the sounds of a gravel truck grinding down stones. Its really unfortunate. Some inspired melody would go sooo well with most of that music.
Honestly, I think it is no more than a current trend, much like RAP METAL was in the 90's. Oh, it will never DIE OFF, but eventually it wont be as popular. Musical appreciatoin rotates in cycles. THis is just another phase in the evolution of music.

 

[Metaldrumz]

I am not a fan of growls. Cannot stand them for the most part. However I do realize that there are different types of growls and screams. I may think they all sound like shit but I do hear a difference between many of them in the kind of scream.

I don't mind screams/growls if its used in a song for an added effect, but when its these death/black metal bands that just scream and vomit in a mic for 4 minutes straight I absolutely cannot stand it at all.

My ears just dont find it appealing when someone sounds like they are taking a shit out of there mouth.

I've ranted about this many times on my show. So many of these growl fans will claim that "hair metal" is cheesy and gay. Like BLACK METAL isnt? They wear even MORE makeup....dress up in spikes, and pentagrams, and thats supposed to what? Make them a buncha badasses or intimidating? HAH HAH HAH. Always amused when the people who insult "cock rock" and call it pussy music act like death/black metal is so badass and tough.

Of course Im only speaking about those who say those things, and not making a general statement on all black/death metal fans. I know many people who are fans of BOTH so I want to make it clear Im not lumping everyone in together.

 

[dcowboys311]

Rap and growling are almost purely rythmic.

And what's wrong with that? What's wrong with using your voice to add to the music in a different way? Are you going to hate on some forms of jazz because the vocals are "purely rhythmic?"

Honestly, I think rapping takes more skill, truth be told.

I'm a huge rap fan. So, that being said, this statement makes no sense. I'd like to see you, or anyone who claims harsh vox are just noise go out night after night and do those vocals without completely destroying your vocal cords. It takes a lot of practice, training, and skill.

I also never understood why you would write lyrics that no one could understand.

Just because you can't understand them doesn't mean other people can't. I can understand the majority of the harsh vocals I hear. So can other people I talk to. Not their problem that you can't decipher the lyrics.

A friend of mine in a Brazillian death metal band laughed when I told him that, and he said he usually DOESNT write lyrics at all because no one would understand them anyway. He said that he just goes onstage and makes a bunch of noise. When they do thier albums, they have to go back and rethink what he did live and add lyrics, but he told me that it doesnt matter because he could do exactly the same thing on every track and no one could tell the difference. I am not going to divulge the name of the band, but they have several albums out and it is likely you have heard of them.

I'm gonna guess you're talking about Krisiun. I have a hard time believing this, but no point in arguing with you about that. However, don't judge MULTIPLE SUBGENRES OF METAL based on what one band does.

Growling, much like rap, is about attitude and vibe more than substance.

Again...not true. Many bands use melody with growling vocals. I can point out a few to you if you're interested in checking them out.

Honestly, I think it is no more than a current trend, much like RAP METAL was in the 90's. Oh, it will never DIE OFF, but eventually it wont be as popular. Musical appreciatoin rotates in cycles. THis is just another phase in the evolution of music.

A current trend that's been going strong since the mid 80s...yeah that makes a lot of sense

 

[Soundscape]

a lot of bands with extreme vocals would suck without them. I actually find "Damnation" to lack a lot, just due to the fact there is no screaming.

Also liking screaming and liking rap or hip-hop really isn't that unusual. I'm an Immortal Technique fan. I'm also fan of Gloria Morti. I don't follow why it'd be so strange.

 

[SavaDude]

And what's wrong with that? What's wrong with using your voice to add to the music in a different way? Are you going to hate on some forms of jazz because the vocals are "purely rhythmic?"



I'm a huge rap fan. So, that being said, this statement makes no sense. I'd like to see you, or anyone who claims harsh vox are just noise go out night after night and do those vocals without completely destroying your vocal cords. It takes a lot of practice, training, and skill.


Just because you can't understand them doesn't mean other people can't. I can understand the majority of the harsh vocals I hear. So can other people I talk to. Not their problem that you can't decipher the lyrics.


I'm gonna guess you're talking about Krisiun. I have a hard time believing this, but no point in arguing with you about that. However, don't judge MULTIPLE SUBGENRES OF METAL based on what one band does.



Again...not true. Many bands use melody with growling vocals. I can point out a few to you if you're interested in checking them out.



A current trend that's been going strong since the mid 80s...yeah that makes a lot of sense

- didnt start gaining much popularity until recently tho. Progressive metal started in the late 60's through the 70's, and it took until the late 90's to begin to catch. It is what it is man.

I hear ya man. Bottom line is: You like this stuff. I do not. No further discussion necessary. =)

 

[edgeofthorns]

Anyway, again, is there a link to where I can get those songs? Or listen to them? I for one have been a DT fan since day one, and am really looking forward to hearing the new stuff!

Don't sweat it SavaDude, the "cooking monsters" get their panties in wads when you don't like their noise.

~Brian~

 

[Prog_Please]

I don't mind screams/growls if its used in a song for an added effect, but when its these death/black metal bands that just scream and vomit in a mic for 4 minutes straight I absolutely cannot stand it at all.

I totally agree. Personally, I think the death vox adds a certain element to the music that clean vocals can't. The best bands (in my opinion) are those that can blend the two together and find the right ratio of clean / harsh vocals.

What's wrong with using your voice to add to the music in a different way? Are you going to hate on some forms of jazz because the vocals are "purely rhythmic?"

Very true. I used to play in a jazz band and the attitude was that the singer was just another "instrument." I apply this to harsh vocals as well. They're just another instrument that adds to the music and its atmosphere.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and can listen to whichever music they want. They can express their overall all opinions on the issue, but in the end, it all comes down to "does the music enthrall you or not?" How they achieve it is trivial.

 

[rushzil2112]

There is melody in growling/screaming, at least to me there is with the good singers of it, but if you don't like that type of vocal then you are going to stop listening to it or hate it right off and not really listen. There are many great growlers that are very articulate and you can understand what they are singing, to name a few, Dan Swano, Mikael Akerfeldt, Angela Gossow, Peter Tatgren, Randy Blythe, Vintersorg, ICS Vortex(Simon) and many others. There are tons as well that aren't articulate and just growl and I can't stand those but will still listen and enjoy it as long as the music is good(examples are any singer that has been with Cryptopsy).