TENTH DREAMER DECEIVER
Halcyon Way Sufferer
- Jan 7, 2002
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New DREAM THEATER thoughts???
- Thread starter Wherewolf
- Start date
Justin G
Member
Hear, hear! Can we figure out a way to ban Mike Portnoy from the microphone? He's just not good, and I'm becoming paranoid that he's going to force LaBrie out and try to take over vocals himself.
Oh, and the packaging on the 3CD set is tres crappy. I expected so much better.
mel_progson
Member
BlindPanzer
Iced Guardian was taken:)
Portnoy explained how his singing ended up on A Nightmare to Remember.
"I knew my vocals in A Nighmare To Remember would surely spark some controversy...looks like I was right!
As The Count Of Tuscany once said:
"wait a minute man....that's not how it is...let me please explain!"
1. The original melody that JP had to this section I felt did not work with the music. This section of the song has a really heavy, driving Judas Priest/King Diamond vibe musically...and JP had a melody that was more melodic and James' high voice I felt REALLY softened up the music to this very important dramatic section of the song.
(mp3 not available for this example)
2. I really kept hearing a Mikael Akerfeldt type Opeth death growl (yes, cookie monster vocals - sorry Setlist Scotty!) Like em or hate em, the section was really calling for it to my ears (listen to the instrumental version and you'll hear what I mean...)
The thought crossed my mind to ask Mikael himself to do it, but then I figured I'd end up having to do it live every night on tour, so it might as well be me on the CD....
So I gave it my best shot and here's what it was:
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR MP Cookie.mp3
In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow...
3. So I agreed to try adding James doing a bit of a "counterpoint" to my cookie monster version to possible help soften the blow and add a little melody to the part....so here's what it sounded like:
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR MP & JLB.mp3
I did not dig this approach as
a) James' clean vocals were still softening up the music to me
b) the counterpoint approach made it all too confusing and distracted from the drive of the music
4. So John and I went back to the idea of keeping my vocals for the section to keep it heavy and driving, but getting rid of the Opeth cookie monster approach and going for a more Robb Flynn/Machine Head approach instead (kind of like my "Constant Motion" voice)
In the end, that is what we went with:
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR Final.mp3
I did indeed know that no matter what, we wouldn't please everybody with the idea, but I really felt a "heavy" approach was needed to keep the heaviness of the section (and hey...look at Roger Waters, Wayne Coyne, Neil Young, Dave Mustaine, Jeff Tweety, James Hetfield, etc etc. the truth is *anybody* can sing...it's all about having personailty and emotion in the expression... )
I know my voice my not be everybody's cup of tea (especially the heavy side), but sometimes
a contrast to James' cleaner vocals are needed with some of the heavy riffs and I believe "character" or "personality" in a voice is just as important in music and the expression of your art, it's not always about virtuoso, operatic range...
Ultimately, if you really are bothered by em then I suppose you can at least thank me for making the instrumental mixes and isolated stems available!
MP
PS - On a side note as this thread is really aimed to clear up my side of the street amongst the bashers: I must say the amount of hatred and negativity towards me on other DT "fan" sites is truly incredible (you know who you are)...my skin is not as thick as you may think!
It baffles me that as the member of DT (or any band for that matter) that must be one of the most fan-driven musicians in the industry, I am so slammed by our "fans"...while other artists (who will go unnamed) that could care less our fans are put on a pedestal....sorry, I am still human and can read these forums and it indeed hurts sometimes...
Please feel free to post this on those sites as well... "
source: http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2352022.aspx
"I knew my vocals in A Nighmare To Remember would surely spark some controversy...looks like I was right!
As The Count Of Tuscany once said:
"wait a minute man....that's not how it is...let me please explain!"
1. The original melody that JP had to this section I felt did not work with the music. This section of the song has a really heavy, driving Judas Priest/King Diamond vibe musically...and JP had a melody that was more melodic and James' high voice I felt REALLY softened up the music to this very important dramatic section of the song.
(mp3 not available for this example)
2. I really kept hearing a Mikael Akerfeldt type Opeth death growl (yes, cookie monster vocals - sorry Setlist Scotty!) Like em or hate em, the section was really calling for it to my ears (listen to the instrumental version and you'll hear what I mean...)
The thought crossed my mind to ask Mikael himself to do it, but then I figured I'd end up having to do it live every night on tour, so it might as well be me on the CD....
So I gave it my best shot and here's what it was:
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR MP Cookie.mp3
In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow...
3. So I agreed to try adding James doing a bit of a "counterpoint" to my cookie monster version to possible help soften the blow and add a little melody to the part....so here's what it sounded like:
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR MP & JLB.mp3
I did not dig this approach as
a) James' clean vocals were still softening up the music to me
b) the counterpoint approach made it all too confusing and distracted from the drive of the music
4. So John and I went back to the idea of keeping my vocals for the section to keep it heavy and driving, but getting rid of the Opeth cookie monster approach and going for a more Robb Flynn/Machine Head approach instead (kind of like my "Constant Motion" voice)
In the end, that is what we went with:
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR Final.mp3
I did indeed know that no matter what, we wouldn't please everybody with the idea, but I really felt a "heavy" approach was needed to keep the heaviness of the section (and hey...look at Roger Waters, Wayne Coyne, Neil Young, Dave Mustaine, Jeff Tweety, James Hetfield, etc etc. the truth is *anybody* can sing...it's all about having personailty and emotion in the expression... )
I know my voice my not be everybody's cup of tea (especially the heavy side), but sometimes
a contrast to James' cleaner vocals are needed with some of the heavy riffs and I believe "character" or "personality" in a voice is just as important in music and the expression of your art, it's not always about virtuoso, operatic range...
Ultimately, if you really are bothered by em then I suppose you can at least thank me for making the instrumental mixes and isolated stems available!
MP
PS - On a side note as this thread is really aimed to clear up my side of the street amongst the bashers: I must say the amount of hatred and negativity towards me on other DT "fan" sites is truly incredible (you know who you are)...my skin is not as thick as you may think!
It baffles me that as the member of DT (or any band for that matter) that must be one of the most fan-driven musicians in the industry, I am so slammed by our "fans"...while other artists (who will go unnamed) that could care less our fans are put on a pedestal....sorry, I am still human and can read these forums and it indeed hurts sometimes...
Please feel free to post this on those sites as well... "
source: http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2352022.aspx
dcowboys311
Member
AngraRULES
Member
digitalink
Chief Rocker
OK, spent a secluded period of time with this album and it is nothing short of AMAZING for me. Even with the more aggressive vocal approach in some parts the whole record flows nicely. I really like the reoccurring melodies. This is a great step forward for DT in that it solidifies them as one of the greatest bands on the planet.
To all the Portnoy haters: how can you say anything negative about, clearly, one of the best drummers in the world? Not to mention he is one hell of a businessman. He IS the driving force behind Dream Theater; Portnoy runs the entire thing. From booking to production and recording, nothing is scheduled or no one is hired with out going through him first.
To all the Portnoy haters: how can you say anything negative about, clearly, one of the best drummers in the world? Not to mention he is one hell of a businessman. He IS the driving force behind Dream Theater; Portnoy runs the entire thing. From booking to production and recording, nothing is scheduled or no one is hired with out going through him first.
- Nov 24, 2002
- 14,109
- 159
- 63
- 57
One more time I'm gonna go against the flow. To me is the second worst after "Train Of Thought", still I have ordered the 3-CD version (already on my way). The way I see it for me, the instrumental one is the real album, the covers is the second and the one with vocals and dreadful grunts is the bonus 
imaskinbeater
clinically insane drumnut
I happen to like Stargazer, Odyssey and Larks more than any of the songs on the main CD. And yes, the packaging does suck 
Prog_Please
Member
I just finished listening to the album and I was so thrilled with it I had to come and post. Its probably one of my favorite albums by them. The song "Shattered Fortress" blew me away. I absolutely loved the short motifs from "The Root Of All Evil" and "The Glass Prison" (my favorite DT song).
I also really liked the Portnoy gone Åkerfeldt influences (no surprise since Opeth is my favorite band). The thing I love most about Dream Theater is that there is so much to their music. I love all the small things, and these short Portnoy excerpts really add to the overall effect of the song. I don't care what anyone says, I love it and I hope he keeps doing it.
Anyways, enough talking. Ima go listen to the album again.
edit: A few more thoughts.
1. I disagree about Portnoy running the show. I think he just has the biggest mouth. The liner notes even list JP as the songwriter for most of the songs (LaBrie wasn't listed once, which might be why the album is so great).
2. In response to all the people saying "that's not what DT is about": I don't believe the fans should / get to dictate the music. The musicians get to make their music, and if you like it, great. If you don't, great. Can you really tell a musician what he can write? Do they really have to make a side project every time they want to experiment a little? That's ridiculous.
I also really liked the Portnoy gone Åkerfeldt influences (no surprise since Opeth is my favorite band). The thing I love most about Dream Theater is that there is so much to their music. I love all the small things, and these short Portnoy excerpts really add to the overall effect of the song. I don't care what anyone says, I love it and I hope he keeps doing it.
Anyways, enough talking. Ima go listen to the album again.
edit: A few more thoughts.
1. I disagree about Portnoy running the show. I think he just has the biggest mouth. The liner notes even list JP as the songwriter for most of the songs (LaBrie wasn't listed once, which might be why the album is so great).
2. In response to all the people saying "that's not what DT is about": I don't believe the fans should / get to dictate the music. The musicians get to make their music, and if you like it, great. If you don't, great. Can you really tell a musician what he can write? Do they really have to make a side project every time they want to experiment a little? That's ridiculous.
Ascension
New Metal Member
+1
l'm one that doesn't like harsh vocals...not that what Mike adds is considered harsh, but for DT it is. But, l give him some leeway just for the fact of what he does behind the scenes in the organizational aspect of DT. That's got to be a big mountain to climb everyday.
Oh...and he is argueably the most relevant drummer on the face of the earth at the moment. So...he's got that going for him too.
Justin G
Member
You know, not liking the guy's vocals doesn't make someone a "hater". The guy is a brilliant drummer, and a vital part of the band. I just wish he'd leave the vocals to James.
mel_progson
Member
I make no secret of disliking Portnoys backing vocals. I don't even mean his harsh vocals or whatever, just his clean harmonies backing up Labrie. They take away from the music. Simple as that. As far as being a Portnoy "hater"? No way! The guy is a brilliant drummer and the logical choice as band spokesman/leader. I'm a fan.
On a side note, Petrucci aint that grand on the backings either.
On a side note, Petrucci aint that grand on the backings either.
chibitotoro
Member
Am I the only one that thinks "Shattered Fortress" amounts to little more than 12 minutes of recycled music, and am I the only one that's thrilled that the whole 12-step saga or whatever is finally over?
Reprising songs is nothing new to DT, every AA song in the saga contained some sort of reprisal of the prior song. It also makes perfect sense with the final step of AA being to practice/carry to others the message of steps 1-11...in a sense reprising the program daily.....to reprise all the songs in the last one. The Shattered Fortress is exactly what I expected it to be. Heavy, solid, and brings back the best parts of the AA saga one last time.
BlindPanzer
Iced Guardian was taken:)
I don't mind reprises, what bothers me about the song is the cut-and-paste approach to it. To my ears it doesn't flow at all, one section moves to another without a sense of musical continuity.
ok I picked mine up over the weekend! I just did not have the pocketbooks to get it on the release day like most of you
Ok it rocks, of course it does it is Dream Theater, they could do "Mary had a Little Lamb" with a 15 min Insturmental in the middle and totally rock it. But on A D.T. scale its mediocre at best
These songs sound like songs that did not make it other album, the leftovers
I do feel that "wither" is an awesome song, musically and lyrically and I dont normally go for the ballady type songs
Alan
Ok it rocks, of course it does it is Dream Theater, they could do "Mary had a Little Lamb" with a 15 min Insturmental in the middle and totally rock it. But on A D.T. scale its mediocre at best
These songs sound like songs that did not make it other album, the leftovers
I do feel that "wither" is an awesome song, musically and lyrically and I dont normally go for the ballady type songs
Alan
TENTH DREAMER DECEIVER
Halcyon Way Sufferer
- Jan 7, 2002
- 3,859
- 3
- 38
