OrbWeaver
BECAUSE FALCONER
I enjoyed learning French in high school. I'd probably have taken another language in undergrad if my community college or Bradley had offered Swedish or Norwegian. 
obama puts the heat on mcpain
- Thread starter Kenso
- Start date
shaq
Demon of the Fall
I'm with you in that I disagree with the statement as well. There is no reason for a normal user to need to understand computers at that level, nor will they be able to really comprehend it properly. It is the job of the developer to make things work in a way that the end-user doesn't have to know what makes it work, but just know how to use it. Sure, good computer skills are a good quality to have, but it is a completely different subject than programming. As it is the field is polluted with people who think they know what programming is all about but really they don't.
Just to somewhat qualify my stance, I'll mention that I have both a BS and a MS in Computer Science
RiffDaemon
Member
At that level? I'm not saying teach them the theory of computing here. I'm saying teach them a language. So many people think programming is this mystic enigma that only wizards in ivory towers know how to do. Sure, it gets complicated as all Hell when you go beyond getting your feet wet, but you can show 'em the ropes in the beginners' ring and spur some interest.
And I don't think comprehending it properly is an issue. When kids are taught to add and subtract in 1st grade, are they also told what algebraic objects they're working with? When Timmy tells you "Hey, I learned that 1 + 2 = 3 today, Daddy," do you tell him "Sorry son, but that's not really true. That doesn't hold if you're working in Zmod2." ?
So, I don't see the harm in it. At worst, it would be like the Foreign Languages - most would forget what they learned after a year
shaq
Demon of the Fall
The trick is that when you spur some interest, you need to do it in the right way. Too many people think that knowing how to get around in a language makes you a programmer, and that's a dangerous misconception. That said, I'm not saying that there is no benefit to people having a basic knowledge of programming. It is certainly useful in teaching you how to approach a problem in ways you normally wouldn't. I'm just saying that it needs to be done right to ensure appreciation for the science of the whole thing. The last thing this world needs is more people who call themselves web developers because they threw together some HTML or edited their MySpace profile 
RiffDaemon
Member
The last thing this world needs is more people who call themselves web developers because they threw together some HTML or edited their MySpace profile
Haha, omg yes
My highschool teacher who ran us through VB also put us through some basic HTML. When we did our final test of the semester, she said, "Yay, now you can put web development on your resumes." 
shaq
Demon of the Fall
Haha, omg yes
Oh I know it all too well. It's also amazing what little problem solving skills some kids have coming out of Comp Sci programs these days too, even with a Masters. I've been interviewing a lot lately at our company and am usually awestruck at how unprepared some of these people are (and mind you, they're coming from pretty intense programs). Ok, rant over
RiffDaemon
Member
Sadly, yes. And I'll admit, I'm one of them (minus the Masters
). For instance, all my knowledge of Networking is from self-practice - I didn't take it at UGA ... they did NOT REQUIRE us to take it!!!!! I wanted to take it so badly, but I was majoring in Math at the same time, there was class interference, Networking is only offered in the spring semester of every even year, I was on my fifth year anyway ... ... ugh, bullshit. I felt so damn cheated. .... Still, I was able to write up my MUD 
Ok, I'm ranting now. Maybe we should get this thread back to Obama and such 
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
Sadly, yes. And I'll admit, I'm one of them (minus the Masters
"Networking? What's that?" said the guy who got his Bachelors in Comp. Sci. back during the Middle Ages.
I'm a bit surprised UGA would offer it so infrequently.....on the other hand, let's face it, if you wanted to become a certifed MSE or whatever, you can go to plenty of other places, like tech schools, where you don't have to deal with all those pesky things like English and foreign language classes.
Maybe we should get this thread back to Obama and such
Nahhh.
SharkBlack
Member
Purveyor Of Evil
Heavy Metal, INC.
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
I'm getting a very strong feeling of deja vu when I look at many of his Cabinet picks and other top-tier postings. Gee, it's almost as if, somehow, we've seen these characters before.
Added to Obama's recent recanting or retracting of several loud election-season promises and pledges, and that "Change we can believe in" slogan seems to be ringing more hollow every day.
Added to Obama's recent recanting or retracting of several loud election-season promises and pledges, and that "Change we can believe in" slogan seems to be ringing more hollow every day.
Chrisf
Member
I'm getting a very strong feeling of deja vu when I look at many of his Cabinet picks and other top-tier postings. Gee, it's almost as if, somehow, we've seen these characters before.
Added to Obama's recent recanting or retracting of several loud election-season promises and pledges, and that "Change we can believe in" slogan seems to be ringing more hollow every day.
Yeah, he's been a miserable failure!!!1111!!!!
To me, change I can believe in would be, you know, putting people in charge who have a fucking clue how to do their job. The fact that he seems to be doing that with a proven cast seems like a "good thing" (tm) to me. Maybe I'm old fashioned.
freakchylde
PPUSA Driver o' Doom!!!!!
Some of them, I'm totally with you, others......
That said, I'm glad he's pissing off a chunk of those who voted for him. They deserve to be hoisted for being stupid.
The Invisible Guest
Member
+1 .... he's doing a good job so far. He's not afraid to put his political rivals in top positions, and he's not afraid to seek advice from folks with great experience on both sides of the isle. Top quality people for top positions .. what'd wrong with that?
I have faith in the guy .. he's very competent, and he seems to realize that partison politics will not work in this current climate.
He's going to be a major improvement over what we have become accustomed to with George Bush.
As for his promises .. he's on pace to deliver. The Iraq draw down is coming together, and tax relief for the middle will be coming shortly after he gets in office. The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire in 2010.
I'm sure he'd like to implement stuff right now, but he's not in the office yet .. he's the President elect, and he's got the lame duck in his way for a little longer. Hopefully all the last minute policy changes Bush is making won't hold up the process once Obama takes office.
Britt
SharkBlack
Member
You mean the Bush tax cuts for everybody... I'm not wealthy and my taxes went down...
Hopefully Obamas tax cuts will offset this... if they happen.
I am hopeful... but I could not take another tax hike like Clintons...
OrbWeaver
BECAUSE FALCONER
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
Gee, same here.
Gotta love wealth envy; it works EVERY time.
I LOVE the idea being floated (not very seriously, alas) of using the remaining $300 billion from the bailout funds....by simply nullifying all Federal withholding from all wages and payments for January and February, nationwide.
Companies and payers (banks) would simply halt the income tax, plus FICA and Medicare withholding, so you'd take home your entire paycheck. For two months. Talk about an economic stimulus!
Even better, it wouldn't require the government to cut checks and mail them, which is expensive and prone to fraud.
Will it fly?
Hell, no. It's too close to what the Fair Tax would establish for people's take-home pay, and therefore dangerous.
Still, it was a great idea. (Proposed by a Congressman from Texas, I forget his name.)
SharkBlack
Member
Chrisf
Member
I know... rich people are always frothing at the mouth that some poor jobless slob is stealing some of theirs.
Or not. It doesn't help anyone out of a job, and the people who would receive it would mostly save it or pay off debt. Cue more mouth frothing wherein "it's their money!!!!" and "they're entitled to do what they will with THEIR MONEY!!!!!".
Yeah, but that's not much of an economic stimulus.
I don't think the gov should mail checks to anyone (for the above stated reason), but... expensive compared to what? The bailout? The Iraq war? The money lost in Iraq when they just flew $10 billion in cash into a war zone? How much exactly does it cost to mail out the checks? And how much is actually lost to fraud (not some right-wing wet dream about welfare queens from the 80s)?
No, Obama has it about right. A massive infrastructure investment would create millions of jobs, providing money to those who need it most (and earn it!), and they will obviously spend it. Plus, it will actually result in something useful as a result, and double-bonus points, a portion of the money comes straight back to the Treasury in taxes (plus also into the states as well - triple bonus).
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