Obama wins

[Nightshade]

This is a perfect example of the difference between a manager and a leader. Obama's system is merely going back to the Clinton-style way of doing business, and I bet you a testicle that your employer wasn't complaining one bit between 1992 and 2000.

It's not just that -- the person who wrote that letter didn't do everything he did while living in a 300 sq ft apt and eating Ramen just for the $$. There is a drive there -- a creation of something.

Yep, he pays taxes. So do I. So does everyone. It's a basic reality that there is a minimum amount of money necessary to survive, presuming you're not living in a box or a car. Above that is the minimum amount to be healthy -- better food, light, exercise, medical and dental care, etc. Everything above that is optional and subject to what you want.

We've simply got an overdeveloped sense of entitlement running rampant. It's good that there are people like that employer willing to work hard for what they have, and it would be better if more of us were. As it happens though, this sense of entitlement means that it is no longer the ultra rich who are doing all the discretionary spending. It used to be that the common family would scrimp and save a long time to buy one shiny new thing. Now we whip out Mistress Visa or Master Card and buy what we want. The spending power of the little guy is highlighted by the massive amount of campaign money Obama raised through smaller donations. Now we need to stimulate that class that could spend, but is trapped in a credit crisis that is ultimately of our own making.

And then there is our tax system, which is whacked regardless of how and who spends. We ramp up the % we expect the rich to pay, then we think better of it and offer so many random, tiny tax breaks that it takes a tax accountant to figure it out, and in the end, the very very very rich end out paying a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than many of the average citizens. If it were just a little more even, you'd have more $$ coming in, and nobody would have to choose between a dental visit and car repairs.

Ultimately, I think we need to stop whining and fighting and demanding that we *should* have this or that, and re-evaluate the whole stupid thing -- taxes, our spending, ourselves, everything. Not just our leaders. IMO, Obama should take that "Yes we can" speach and put us all to work. I think he's a sufficiently charismatic speaker that he could probably pull it off.

 

[Dead Winter]

Taxes really are quite high in the US, at least in respect of what you get in return. All told, I pay about 43% taxes here and that includes the Italian version of Social Security. When I was in the US military, I was paying about 30-something percent, just like the average civilian. 10% more taxes isn't that much to pay when you get great health coverage, almost free college education, and guaranteed job contracts. I hate taxes just as much as anyone but it just seems like here they're actually used to HELP the populace, whereas in the US it seems that it just lines the pockets of the uber rich. If you were told you could get great health coverage, almost free college, and a guaranteed job, would you be willing to pay a little more in taxes? Some will say yes and some will say no...there is no right answer, but it's just something to think about.

Here's something else to think about:

This past weekend, Annalisa was cleaning the bathroom with some Lysol heavy duty type cleaner, the kind with hydrochloric acid in it. As she was scrubbing, a big blot of it went right into her eyes. Now remember this stuff is fucking caustic. She washed out her eye for about 20 minutes but it wasn't helping, so we went to the local emergency room at 9 pm on Saturday night. They immediately flushed her eyes and treated her to make sure it wasn't threatening her vision, but she had some really bad burns in and around her eye. Just to be sure, they told us to go to the big hospital about half an hour away and speak to the eye specialist, whom they were calling in from home just to treat her and make sure it wasn't worse than they thought. The guy got there, and ran exams, gave her medication, and prescribed some medicine for her and told her to come back the next morning to be sure everything was ok. Luckily the cleaning solution didn't do any permanent damage and missed the cornea and other vital parts of her eyeball. Basically it just hurt like hell.

Went to the checkup the following day, everything was fine, and then went to pick up the prescription for this week. She still had some blind spots, so the doctor told her to stay home for several days since she couldn't drive to work and work effectively, and signed the form where the state would pay her sick leave.

So, we had the ER visit, the eye doctor exams and treatment, the checkup the following day, and the prescribed drugs. Do you know how much it was all told? About 50 euros.

I think the tax debate in the US is a moot point. We need to start demanding to put more taxes to work for the citizens because in a country of 300 million people, where is all this tax money going? It's not that much less than here, yet our way of life here is much safer and comfortable than in the US right now. Why? 10% less taxes can't be that much of a difference, so the only explanation is that it's wasted on other things when it should be allocated for all of you. I think you need to start demanding a complete tax expenditure overhaul and take what is rightfully yours. We'll never stop paying taxes so we might as well get something out of them.

Another fun fact: if you get pregnant, the company is obliged by law to keep you on the payroll until you get back. You are allocated several months of leave before the baby and up to 3 months of leave after, completely funded by the company. THIS IS LAW. If you choose to take more time off, you can get an additional 6 months of leave from the state. So, after you have your baby, you get about 9 months paid vacation to take care of your child. This is for every company in the state of Italy, public, private, whatever...all because the government wants the utmost care for you and your child. This cannot be denied, and if they try to deny you this privilege, you can sue the fucking pants off of them.

 

[Nightshade]

I think the tax debate in the US is a moot point. We need to start demanding to put more taxes to work for the citizens because in a country of 300 million people, where is all this tax money going? It's not that much less than here, yet our way of life here is much safer and comfortable than in the US right now. Why? 10% less taxes can't be that much of a difference, so the only explanation is that it's wasted on other things when it should be allocated for all of you. I think you need to start demanding a complete tax expenditure overhaul and take what is rightfully yours. We'll never stop paying taxes so we might as well get something out of them.

Well, you're partly right. A fair portion is lining pockets, undoubtedly. But there's another part most people don't think about -- sheer stupidity. Oh, we believe it when we hear it, we just don't think of it often. Remember the infamous $400 hammer? When I was a teen, and therefore omniscient, I was pontificating at lenght on this topic to my father. My father was notiously cheap and suspicious, so I assumed he'd agree. He didn't. He was also a Boeing employee. He said that if the government asked him to make a hammer, he'd charge $400 for it, too, because of the ridiculous, moronic, intricate and stupid requirements they'd put into the contract. I believe at the time there was a gov't spec sheet on changing a lightbulb that requried 3 people, one of whom must be a journeyman electrician. Now that makes sense for a 1500 watt bulb 60' in the air. It makes less sense for a 60 watt bulb in a desk lamp, and there was no distinction. Don't even get me going on how we fund our military bases and our complete inability to sell off what they don't need anymore due to laws that seem to make sense in theory, but need to be trashed in practice. Frankly, the whole topic makes me crabby.

 

[Shpongled]

Whoa nevermind... I missed A LOT of shit haha

 

[Anvil]

Take Canadian taxes for instance... close to the same percentage as the Italians... but we really do pay a lot of taxes. However in doing so, they put money away in pensions, they put money into health care... I pay for nothing, besides drugs, and even in my backyard, we see what we're paying for in construction. roads, overpasses, all being built from taxes. At least Canada tries.

 

[Undefined]

I noticed the healthcare system here took a MAJOR dive when they lowered the taxes from 15% to 14%, then again to 13%...

 

[Anvil]

Not here.

 

[Undefined]

Ontario isn't really on Harper's list of shit he cares about.

 

[Anvil]

He knows better than to piss off the British Columbians.

 

[Undefined]

Well he is from the West, so that's where his interests rest.

 

[Dendura]

is it just me or was some law also passed legalizing marijuana in michigan?

They legalized it for medical reasons. Patients who prescribe to it can now plant and grow it.
Aziza

 

[Kvlt Wench]

Except that it's still not legal federally.

 

[Shpongled]

Except that it's still not legal federally.

That stops NO ONE that has a card.

 

[Kvlt Wench]

But it does stop growers when the feds arrest them.

 

[Shpongled]

Sucks for them. All the people I know with cards have never been bothered by anyone, state or federal.

How about them people in Denver? Marijuana is completely legal for everyone there, but state law overrides it.

Stupid laws.

 

[Kvlt Wench]

Yeah, I've just read a few stories about farms and clubs being shut down. And I would be wary of having my name on a government list that says I smoke weed.

 

[Captain Beard]

Other note: Most State-level jobs will still fire you if you're tested positive, medical excuse or not.

 

[Liverslapper]

< will obtain a card...somehow