Off to Israel... but how??

[HaTikva]

I am not sure if there are other people here who not only love Orphaned Land but also the land they come from? (probably yes)

I have been wanting to settle for several years in Israel for several years now and have been actively jobhunting in Israel. Three times I came close to receiving an offer, until the dream-shattering question "are you Jewish?" is being asked. They will always ask it at some point, because a non-jew cannot use the Law of Return to claim an Israeli passport. The non-jew hence needs a working permit, which costs money and which most employers don't like paying (unless you have very rare degrees or skills, but I unfortunately don't have)

I was wondering if there's other people here on the forum who have been considering emigrating to Israel and how your attempts have been? Maybe there is some advice to share on how to successfully do it?

I do believe that if one keeps on trying, someday he will succeed. In my situation (due to my autism a kibbutz is not an option, and as I am atheist and not keen on abusing a system, I rather don't lie about my atheism and rather don't convert to Judaism for the sake of a visa alone).

Anyone else who has been trying to move to Israel? Maybe we can share experiences and hints, hoping that at least a few of us will manage to do it.

PS: if anyone knows a nice and friendly female aged 20 - 30 who is single and holds Israeli citizenship, press the PM button on my profile (if she looks any bit like Bar Rafaeli, it's a benefit although not necessary FYI, this last bit was just kidding, I want to get into Israeli without any fake relationships or lying about my atheism)

 

[lozanoje]

"are you Jewish?" is being asked. They will always ask it at some point, because a non-jew cannot use the Law of Return to claim an Israeli passport.

Then, I wouldnt live in a place where state discriminates against non-jewish people.

Not to count that I dislike most of Israel rulers (they are hate feeders).

lozano
P.S: ¿Y dejarias España para irte a Israel? Tampoco soy un buen ejemplo por que yo no dejaria mi bienamada España por ningun otro pais...

 

[uncle_wally]

Well, I think this is a great topic, because I´m interested in it too and I´m mostly in the same position as you. I am from Argentina, but I´m Spanish too (double nationality). I´m living in London now but I´d love to go to Israel at least for a couple of years. I´ve been there for the anniversary shows and I fell in love with everything there.
I am also an atheist and I wouldn´t lie about it.
Excuse my ignorance and I hope you´re not offended because it´s not my intention, but can you work in a regular job? I know that there are different levels of autism, but I don´t really know much about it. Anyway, you don´t have to answer if you don´t feel like it.

It´s a shame that no one is answering and that this forum is almost dead. I think that here we could learn a lot about different cultures but we are not taking the best of it.

 

[lozanoje]

Excuse my ignorance and I hope you´re not offended because it´s not my intention, but can you work in a regular job? I know that there are different levels of autism, but I don´t really know much about it. Anyway, you don´t have to answer if you don´t feel like it.

Do you think he told it as a real illness? Or just as an adjective of some kind of lack of social abilities? Not sure, because autistics are characterised by the lack of social interaction/communication and he is interacting (socially) with us in this forum...

Dont know...

lozano
P.S: Si tienes la doble nacionalidad, vente a España, aunque el trabajo esta algo jodido aqui (y en Londres probablemente este mas facil).

 

[uncle_wally]

Si, yo pense lo mismo en un principio, pero si te fijas en su perfil dice lo mismo, asi que no fue solo un comentario. Y justamente fue lo que me llamo la atencion.
Se que en España esta complicado, por eso me vine para aca, que hay trabajo por todos lados...

 

[FatBoy1]

Then, I wouldnt live in a place where state discriminates against non-jewish people.

Not to count that I dislike most of Israel rulers (they are hate feeders).

For an outsider, i'd understand this feeling.

But you must see it from a different point of view.
You must know the history of the Jewish people in order to understand where they're (we're) coming from.

I'm not seeking sympathy or understanding, just talking from a Jewish Israeli point of view..

Our history is filled with hate towards the Jewish people,
from the early bible days to 66 years ago, Jews were persecuted for their religion and belief.

After the holocaust, the remaining of the Jewish people felt like they had enough, they need to unite under 1 place or they would keep being persecuted until extermination.

Hence the Jewish state and the "you need to be jewish in order to be a citizen".

Let's just say we had enough of eating shit through-out history.
We're not coming from a racial discrimination place or from "we're better than you" place, it's just our self defense so history will not be repeated.


Anyway - i kept it short so people won't get bored reading this, but i hope somewhere in your heart you understand this.

 

[uncle_wally]

Yeah, well...
I think that I understand ir.
But, anyway, I´ve been discriminated for being an atheist. And I feel like I´m being discriminated here as well...
I´d like to live in Israel because I loved the country and I think that the people is really amazing. I don´t care about politics or religion. I felt like I was welcome there. But, apparently, only as a tourist...

 

[paradoxile]

I don't think anyone will bother with you being an atheist in israel...unless you live among orthodox people who care more about keeping the sabbath than abut human life- every country has its religious fanatics but it doesn't mean everyone is like this.
most people won't care even if you're not jewish...hell there are plenty of russian non jewish people here in israel who had their documents faked to come here and who don't even like being here. There are antisemites working with my mom.

 

[uncle_wally]

I wouldn´t like to have a fake ID, neither lie to have one.
I have to find a way...

 

[paradoxile]

there's always the option of Giyur-unfortunately only orthodox giyur is accepted here.
Giyur is conversion to judaism. You'll have to be a religious jew for a few years because the rabbis will be following you to see if you're keeping all your mitzvas. then when you are officially a jew. you can do whatever you want.
The most honest way to get here is to marry an israeli citizen.

mmm jewish chicas....

 

[uncle_wally]

Hahahah... I wouldn´t mind that. I find Israeli girls pretty interesting. But, as I said before, the religious part is not an option. I don´t believe in any god and I won´t lie about it.

 

[paradoxile]

Giyur is not about belief in god... it's about submitting yourself to their (ortodox) way of life in order to become what they consider jewish

 

[HaTikva]

Do you think he told it as a real illness? Or just as an adjective of some kind of lack of social abilities? Not sure, because autistics are characterised by the lack of social interaction/communication and he is interacting (socially) with us in this forum...

I have been diagnosed within the autism spectrum. To be sure I asked a second opinion to one of the biggest specialists in Europe, who confirmed the diagnosis was right. I am autistic, honestly. Online chatting is however for many autistics an important social outlet, because online things like body language don't play their parts (we tend to be very bad in reading body language) and also we have difficulties to separate sarcasm from serious speech and difficulties to recognise figure of speech. Those are present online too, but to lesser extent than in real life situations. So for many of autistics the internet has become one of the main ways of socialising. You'd not see me chat and socialise as easily if we were all together in a room instead of on an internet forum.

 

[HaTikva]

For an outsider, i'd understand this feeling.

But you must see it from a different point of view.
You must know the history of the Jewish people in order to understand where they're (we're) coming from.

I'm not seeking sympathy or understanding, just talking from a Jewish Israeli point of view..

Our history is filled with hate towards the Jewish people,
from the early bible days to 66 years ago, Jews were persecuted for their religion and belief.

After the holocaust, the remaining of the Jewish people felt like they had enough, they need to unite under 1 place or they would keep being persecuted until extermination.

Hence the Jewish state and the "you need to be jewish in order to be a citizen".

Let's just say we had enough of eating shit through-out history.
We're not coming from a racial discrimination place or from "we're better than you" place, it's just our self defense so history will not be repeated.


Anyway - i kept it short so people won't get bored reading this, but i hope somewhere in your heart you understand this.

This indeed was the thought behind Theodore Herzl's dream of a jewish homeland safe from antisemitism.

And really, perfectly understandable. As frustrating as it is to see a job rejected because you're not jewish and cannot make Aliyah, I cannot really blame them. If the rest of the world treated the jewish people better, there would have been no need for a jewish homeland. Given the history, I perfectly understand the Law of Return.



That said, I must correct you on this: you do NOT have to be jewish to be a citizen. It just is much easier to become a citizen when you're jewish.

Non jews need a working permit and residence permit, whereas jews can get an Israeli passport immediately through the Law of Return, which means they don't need the hassle of working permit requests. For non-jews, working permits are needed and most companies rather don't pay those, which makes it hard to get into the country. Most non-jews getting those permits tend to be athletes (the Israeli football clubs and basketball clubs all recruit players without looking at ethnicity or religion) or diplomats.

Once in Israel on a working permit, you can claim Israeli citizenship after 3 years of residence (regardless if you are jewish or non-jew). So once you are in the country, you can become a citizen even if you're not jewish. It is just a lot harder to get into the country in the first place if you're not jewish.

Non-orthodox conversions are accepted for the Law of Return, although not all of them. I am not sure if Humanistic Judaism is allowed to use the law. Reform Judaism and other non-orthodox forms are accepted though. But I am not sure if conversion is so much easier than through orthodox synagogues.

If you are a partner of a Jew or Israeli citizen, you can also legally reside in Israel and become Israeli citizen. The thing is, you usually need to be in Israel first before the chance of getting an Israeli partner becomes realistic. And if you're lucky enough to get an Israeli boyfriend or girlfriend, you'll have to prove that the relationship is serious (I know of one guy who was not jewish and in love with an Israeli girl... He was in the end given the green light to move to Israel, but only after showing a lot of loveletters and phone bills to prove that they had been dating already for a long while prior to him moving to Israel to be with his girlfriend)

 

[lozanoje]

[...]Online chatting is however for many autistics an important social outlet, because online things like body language don't play their parts (we tend to be very bad in reading body language) and also we have difficulties to separate sarcasm from serious speech and difficulties to recognise figure of speech. Those are present online too, but to lesser extent than in real life situations [...]

I didnt know it, nice to learn something's new, and better considering it comes from a first-person-perspective source, which gives it more value.

lozano