Off Topic: New Orleans

Thraxz

Melody be Thy Name
Aug 27, 2004
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Las Vegas
On behalf of the country that has utterly failed you, I'm sorry. I only hope it's not too late for us all to help.

From the pictures I see, even I am tempted to dispair but I won't. I certainly hop you won't either. America's coming to help. We promise.

~Thraxz
 
I think that it's more than just our country failing them.

A crazy minority in the community itself has failed the rest of New Orleans. By creating the sort of havoc they have, they've impeded the rescue efforts. People are dying because of these idiots.

It is one thing to steal what you must, food, water, and medicine, to survive. It's another thing to steal TV's and computers--another thing to go around raping and murdering and shooting at helicopters taking people to safety.

I KNOW these people aren't the majority of New Orleanders by a long shot. But it's frustrating and disgusting to see what those crazies have done, and it's one of the things that has upset me the most about this whole thing.
 
I dont see how our country has "failed them", but feel free to elaborate as I am very curious as to what you mean.


That being said i feel terribly sorry for MOST of the people down there, those crazies who are looting jewelry and TV's and shooting at people and rescue coptors need to be taken care of. If that means someone (namely the forces that are being sent down there) has to shoot back, then so be it. I have no sympathy for THOSE people. However, like the other guy said they are only a minority of the people there, there are people who are taking what the genuinely need to survive and need as much help as can be given.

I really hope everyone contributes in whatever way they can. Collect change from lunch at work or school, pass around a money bucket at work or school, buy a case of water and ship it down there, or something. No contribution is too small.
 
In all seriousness, while I think some of the responses didn't work--the best thing you can do right now is to help contribute to the relief effort. You never know...something you yourself do could save a life. I imagine you already are doing things, because you all obviously care about the victims, but that's the best work you can do. I really think the Monday-morning quarterbacking should come later.
 
I work for the military. And, although I can't say anything specific, I will say the following:

A) Plans for disaster recovery exist, were initiated, and are being followed through on. The next time you try to get your wife and kids out of the house, time how slow they are getting to the car. Now, multiply that a few thousand-fold to get all of the materials, equipment, personnel, and vehicles mobilized. And then drive them all down to the location from the various facilities all over the US. It's not like the National Guard center in New Orleans can help - they were wiped out.

B) This is a tragedy on an immense scale. The thousands and thousands of square miles of territory devastated has to be searched. The infrastructure has been completely destroyed. It's not like HUMVEEs could just drive down to New Orleans after the rain stopped falling since the roadways were compromised. New Orleans isn't the only place that has to be saved - even though the news seems to only focus on them.

C) The few scumballs that are shooting at rescuers are screwing things up big-time. The result will end up being martial-law. And I'm sure the military will catch hell for declaring martial-law by the same people that are bitching now.

D) And maybe if the people that are spending their energy by bitching actually drove down there to help, they would see the huge scale of the problem that has to be overcome. But they won't. They'll just keep on bitching.

E) The same news-people complaining about how slow things are moving are saying the same thing about Iraq's constitution. They conveniently forget that it took the US 11 YEARS to write and institute our constitution.
 
THANK YOU for taking the time to say this...you prove my points more than I ever could. :)

And thank you for your service. Especially at a time like this, know that SOME of us genuinely appreciate it.
 
I know New Orleans is a tragedy on an unimaginable scale, but it does irk me how an event in the USA gets 200 times more media coverage then anywhere else.
 
Thraxz said:
Dying of dehydration in the US of freakin' A enough for you?

The military dude up there pretty much nailed it on the head and i agree with everything he said. You can't just snap your fingers and everything's better, educate yourself a little bit on the situation before you react. Don't make this a political issue because 1)this isn't a political issue to begin with and 2) the media does enough of that already. Those people need help, not people bitching on the internet looking for an excuse to bash our country and our government.
 
1) They had 5 days warning to get mobilized.
2) My National Guard friend Chad was not activated until three days afterward.
3) He was ready and arrived in Biloxi in two days.

I rest my case.

EDIT: I realize that's not everything but it gives you a little perspective.
 
Thraxz said:
1) They had 5 days warning to get mobilized.

And the residents had that time to evacuate - and didn't; but that's secondary.

What's the point in moving troops into a region if the region is going to get whacked? And, keep in mind, the GOVERNOR has to mobilize the National Guard. And that is only done AFTER a State of Emergency is declared. And that can only happen AFTER the catastrophe has happened.

Thraxz said:
2) My National Guard friend Chad was not activated until three days afterward.

And Chad's number probably came up exactly when his team was ready to deploy. Again, what's the point in calling Chad away from his life when the materials and vehicles aren't in place to take him to where he needs to go and to put him to effective use?

Plus the region has to be prepared for the arrival of forces and materials. Drop in the bulldozers and the log trucks. Drop in the support personnel to build the facilities to house the men and store the materials. While this is happening, the dozers are clearing paths to get the vehicles and men into the area hit. The vehicles and men begin delivering supplies while other vehicles and men begin stockpiling supplies so that a continuous stream can be delivered.

The biggest problem is that we've got (principally) three states-worth of territory for which this has to be done. It isn't one big camp - it's tens. Eventually, it will be hundreds.

Thraxz said:
3) He was ready and arrived in Biloxi in two days.

Great!

Keep in mind that the military is stretched thinly all over the world right now - including the National Guard. We have NG in Afghanistan and Iraq in support of our regular military. We still have NG in the areas hit by the tsunami. And we have a lot of NG members that are off rotation BECAUSE they've been in Afghanistan, Iraq, or in the Pacific.

Trying to fairly - yet effectively - utilize the National Guard is not easy. It has been improved in the somewhat recent organization of TRANSCOM (for whom I work). Just think if we still had all the different layers of leadership that had to be coordinated to mobilize (SAC, MAC, TAC, NG, ad nauseum).

It is still unfortunate that it takes so long to get the necessary aid to the territories hit, but we're fortunate that we HAVE the ability to mobilize this quickly. No other country has ever had a catastrophe of this size in which they mobilized faster.
 
Following is a list of some of the aid offered by governments.

-- Sri Lanka has offered what it called a "token contribution" of $25,000 through the American Red Cross.

-- Mexico has offered $1 million and is sending 15 truckloads of water, food and medical supplies via Texas. The Mexican navy has offered to send two ships, two helicopters and 15 amphibious vehicles.

-- Australia is giving A$10 million ($7.6 million), most of it to the American Red Cross.

-- China has offered $5 million.

-- -- Germany has offered a wide range of assistance including evacuation by air, medical services, transportation services, water treatment capabilities, assistance in searching for victims, vaccination teams and supplies, and emergency shelter. Germany has also said it is ready and willing to "dip into its own emergency oil reserves" to release some 2 million barrels a day for 30 days.

-- France has offered mobile help from the French Antilles, which is relatively close to the affected regions, including a civil defense detachment of 35 people, tents, camp beds, generators, motor pumps, water treatment units and emergency kits, two CASA cargo aircraft, a ship (Batral Francis Garnier) and the frigate Ventose with its Panther helicopter, and a hurricane disaster unit (20 soldiers and 900 kg of specialized supplies and medical support).

-- France has also offered assistance from the French mainland including: one or two C-135 planes, one A-310 aircraft , and four C-160 Transalls, an airborne emergency unit. In addition, the NGO Telecoms Sans Frontieres, which specializes in restoring phone lines and Internet service in disasters, is ready to send a team of experts and equipment. Veolia Environment, which has facilities in Louisiana, has offered to make its local water management resources available to the American authorities or the Red Cross. It can also quickly send in a team of hydraulic experts.

-- Japan has offered to provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross. The government of Japan will identify needs in the affected regions through the U.S. government and, upon request, is ready to provide necessary and available emergency assistance supply amounting to up to $300,000 worth of items such as tents, blankets, power generators, portable water tanks and more from a supply depot maintained by the Japanese government in Florida.

-- Cuba's President Fidel Castro said on Friday his nation was ready to send 1,100 doctors and 26 tons of medicine and equipment.

Asia
AUSTRALIA: "We're going to provide A$10 million ($7.6 million) and the bulk of that money, if not all of it, will go to the American Red Cross," said Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. The Australian government said there may be up to 24 Australians trapped in Louisiana in the aftermath of Katrina.

CHINA: China offered $5 million in aid for victims of Hurricane Katrina which devastated the Gulf Coast ahead of President Hu Jintao's U.S. visit. If needed, the Chinese government is also prepared to send rescue workers, including medical experts, officials said.

JAPAN: Will provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said on Friday. Japan will also identify needs in affected regions via the U.S. government and will provide up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if it receives requests for such assistance, the ministry said.

SINGAPORE: The Singapore Armed Forces, responding to requests by the United States Texas Army National Guard, has sent three Chinook helicopters to Fort Polk, Louisiana, to help in relief efforts. The government said the Chinooks will help to ferry supplies and undertake airlift missions.

SOUTH KOREA: Has pledged aid and is waiting for a U.S. response, a government official said. "We have sent our intention to offer recovery aid," a Foreign Ministry official said on Friday.

SRI LANKA: Will donate $25,000 to the American Red Cross.

TAIWAN: Has pledged more than $3 million to the relief effort.

Americas
CANADA: Offered to help in any way it can and the navy is preparing a ship full of emergency disaster relief supplies to be sent when a request comes.

CUBA: Cuban President Fidel Castro offered to fly 1,100 doctors to Houston with 26 tonnes of medicine to treat disaster victims.

MEXICO: The country is sending 15 truckloads of water, food and medical supplies via Texas and the Mexican navy has offered to send two ships, two helicopters and 15 amphibious vehicles.

VENEZUELA: President Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the United States, offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area.

Europe
EUROPEAN UNION: EU countries are ready to give the United States oil if it requests help, EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said on Friday. But British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said this was not what the EU had in mind when it discussed how to help.

FRANCE: Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said France was ready to offer support, telling TF1 television: "We have rescue teams based in the Caribbean and we are naturally ready to provide aid to the Americans, and that is what we have told them."

GERMANY: Has offered mobile units to provide clean water, military hospital facilities and medical aid.

ITALY: Has offered to "immediately" send aid and evacuation specialists, Italy's civil protection unit said. Authorities have prepared two military transport planes to fly amphibious vessels, pumps, generators, tents and personnel to New Orleans and other areas. They were awaiting word from U.S. officials, the unit said.

NETHERLANDS: Will provide teams for inspecting dykes and for identifying victims if there is a formal request from the United States. It will also send a frigate from Curacao to New Orleans shortly to provide emergency assistance, the government said.

RUSSIA: Has offered to help with rescue efforts, but is still awaiting a reply from Washington. "Above all with heavy transport planes, which can be loaded with helicopters and generators -- as there is no electricity in the area of the catastrophe," Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said.

SPAIN: Expects to receive a formal request to release gasoline stocks to the United States and is prepared to grant it, an Industry Ministry spokesman said.

SWEDEN: The Rescue Authority said it was on stand-by to supply water purifying equipment, healthcare supplies and emergency shelters if needed.

UNITED KINGDOM: British Prime Minister Tony Blair has said Britain stands ready to help the United States in whatever way it can.

Middle East
SAUDI ARABIA - Saudi Refining, a Houston-based subsidiary of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, will donate $5 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for victims of Hurricane Katrina.

From CNN. Glad to see that those we've helped in the past are offering to return the favor. Even if the government doesn't accept their help, it's nice to see. Hell, even Castro is offering to help. :D
 
What Sri Lanka did, even if they are calling it a "token" donation, is particularly nice...and more sacrificial from them than anything. $25,000 isn't much in our eyes, maybe--but it slows down relief in THEIR flood-ravaged country. It could feed a little, suffering Mississippi town for awhile. I think it shows real, genuine empathy.

I don't know how many of you have heard the parable of the widow's mite, but that's what it reminds me of...small, but extremely heartfelt and for that reason, worth every bit as much as these very large donations. :)
 
I live on the gulf coast in the far western part of the panhandle of FL. We deal with these damn hurricanes 5-6 months out of every year. We lucked out this time for once and only got a little rain and tropical storm force winds. Every hurricane that comes this way has always seemed to steer farther east to our region rather than ever going more to the west as Katrina did. It has been a good decade that people have been warning at the tragedy New Orleans would face if they got hit by just a decently strong hurricane due to its bowl like geography, and that city has been VERY lucky it has lasted as long as it has without this happening. They knew deep down that this was coming. I really feel for the people its just I would have thought the city or mayor would have had a plan for this tragedy because they knew it was going to happen someday. I think even as Katrina was only a couple hundred miles from the coast they still thought it would drift east to us as most hurricanes do. We had a pretty bad hurrican in like '95 called Opal that was very strong like Katrina and was a category 5 and going the same path as Katrina, it was exactly the same as Katrina was except when everyone woke up the morning of the day it was to make landfall it just suddenly turned east towards us and everyone freaked completely out even though it dropped to category 4 from 5 it was still VERY strong. we lucked out like LA and MS did with Katrina and right when it was about to hit land it dropped to a high lvl 3 hurricane.
Anyway, the aftermaths of hurricanes in my opinion of the many I have been through tend to bring out the best, or worst in people. Thankfully they bring out the best in most, as I have seen on the news in New Orleans where people were carrying injured on rafts and even searching for others who were stuck. Yeah there were looters, but that really was just a minority of people. The main thing that made me mad was when I heard that civilians were robbing each other of food and water and even shooting one another due to it.
Where I live we are definately still feeling the effects of all this though. We have some high schools that are getting hundreds of new students from LA and MS, and there is a fairground in my town were they are going to set up tents and such for refugees. Not only that but since most of our gas comes en route from New Orleans our gas is going to go into a range of 3-4 dollars a gallon AND its being rationed to a limit of 20 dollars worth. Hell, since I filled up right before this rationing knowing it was going to happen I haven't had to go back yet and dread doing so because most places won't have gas....and those that do will have huge lines.
Anyway just thought I would give you guys a point of view from someone who is in the area of it all and has dealt with hurricanes his whole life....bad thing is that the hurricane season isn't over yet and the worst most active part of the season is sept and oct. Where I live we are still feeling reprocussions (I prob spelled that wrong) from a decently powerful hurricane we got about this time last year, and now we have refugees and such coming here from Katrina. Katrina was a pretty strong hurricane but we have gotten them just as strong and that Opal one I mentioned we have may have been a little stronger. But since New Orleans is so low lying it created a tragedy that has taken over the news and people in other regions of the US for the most part don't understand that us in FL and on the FL, AL, and MS gulf coast deal with storms like that a lot. If you see the wreckage on the news of Biloxi and Gulfport MS that is a good example of what its like when we get hit with hurricanes every year....its just this one is more of a tragedy and all over the news due to the New Orleans flooding.
 
Rose Immortal said:
THANK YOU for taking the time to say this...you prove my points more than I ever could. :)

And thank you for your service. Especially at a time like this, know that SOME of us genuinely appreciate it.

Thanks Rose. A bunch of the guys I work with left Thursday for Mississippi. I was hoping to go with them, but with the wife due to give birth any minute now... well, the bosses wouldn't let me go even if the wife would. ;)

To be completely honest though, Thraxz' friend Chad and his fellow volunteers are my heroes. I get to sit in my air conditioned office at home (or in my EZ-chair like I am now) and do my job - they're out in the field doing the hard work. 100+ degree temperatures. 80 pound packs on their back. Doing the real hand-to-hand help. But I am very proud to be able to support them whether it's the generals here at the base, the Chiefs of Staff in Washington, or the grunt in the foxhole (and frankly, when we hear from the latter, it really means a lot to us). :Spin:
 
Had this happened a month ago I would have taken time off of work to go. Now, I'm in school and work and were I to leave it'd ruin my school track for two years. I still almost did go.
 
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon — not once, but several times — and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

That was broadcast THIRTY-TWO YEARS AGO and still rings true today. [5 June 1973, Canadian radio commentator Gordon Sinclair.]

America sorts it's shit out.
 
Thraxz said:
Had this happened a month ago I would have taken time off of work to go. Now, I'm in school and work and were I to leave it'd ruin my school track for two years. I still almost did go.

Noone can fault you for your responsibilities. Unfortunately, I'm sure some day in the future there will be another catastrophe that you and I can lend our first-hand time and efforts to.

In a side note, and now that it's public, I'm happy to report that the 82nd Airborne has arrived to assist the 15,000 National Guardsmen in the area. The regular military rarely works in matters like this because of America's choice to keep the regular military out of civil matters.
 
Actually I realised that my post was a waste of space and time so I deleted it, but fossil records was fast enough to quote it before I deleted it and I agree with him.
 
Fossil Records said:
But I am very proud to be able to support them whether it's the generals here at the base, the Chiefs of Staff in Washington, or the grunt in the foxhole (and frankly, when we hear from the latter, it really means a lot to us). :Spin:

Exactly...they wouldn't be able to do their jobs if somebody wasn't doing the support work.