old school thrash productions

[sparkyness]

Have been listening to some of my much loved old school thrash albums for the first time in ages and am shocked at how bad they sound not only by today’s production standards, but also to other non-metal recordings of the time (circa 1987-94). I know Andy has commented to this effect in the past but I’d not listened to a lot of this stuff in literally ten years so hadn’t released to what extent this is the case.

Some of this stuff (e.g. Testament, Flotsam, Overkill, Megadeth, Death Angel, etc) were released on major labels so I’d imagine the recording budgets were relatively significant so they were most likely recorded in great studios with good gear. My jaw virtually hit the floor when I was checking out “Souls of Black” this morning.

The vibe and energy is definitely there, but so are the cheese-grater guitar sounds. Is it simply a case that metal production techniques have changed that much?

Thoughts??

 

[WeeFace]

Well I think being on a major label doesn't necessarily mean big recording budget - it's still usually the band that pays for the studio time. It's also possible that tastes were different back then; even personally I'm not a huge fan of the uber-clean modern sound really. I love listening to old 80s stuff, heaps of a character, and I reckon we could all learn from it to pull into our modern high-tech stuff

 

[nwright]

I'm on the other side of that....I can't stand 80's metal albums. Granted, it was a bit before my time, but the other guys in my band all dug that stuff when they were kids. My bass player burnt a copy of Bonded By Blood for me to check out and I couldn't hardly listen to it, it sounded so horrible. I can't get a feel for it when I can't get into the sound. And the cheesy slapback echo on the vox....Sheesh.

 

[sparkyness]

Absolutely, I’d have to say my favourite sounding productions are probably from 5-10 years ago and have more of an “organic” sound than a lot of stuff out there right now. Someone the character and energy has been polished out of the end product which is something of a shame (to my ears).

That being said, there’s a truckload of albums from the late 80’s and early 90’s which are sonically, pretty dire that were recorded with fairly decent budgets. In most cases the bands did eventually pay for the costs as labels recouped costs from their royalties, but some pretty big advances were dished out by labels to pay for those recordings. Nowdays those days are gone and either the bands are paying from the outset or are having to record on vastly reduced budgets but the results on average sound better. But is it the technology, tastes or recording techniques?

 

[nwright]

For me, I'd solely put it in the technology and recording techniques category. I know a lot of mid level nationals recording on pretty regular consumer/pro-sumer equipment that to 99.9999% of the world sounds as good as a 6 figure budget.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Have been listening to some of my much loved old school thrash albums for the first time in ages and am shocked at how bad they sound not only by today’s production standards, but also to other non-metal recordings of the time (circa 1987-94).
Thoughts??

I finally found a copy of Wasted Youth's single, "Good day for a Hanging" that I'd been searching for about 5 years to find.

I remember back in the 80's being very impressed with that 'gee whiz click kick' that everyone was trying to get & overall heavy as fuck sound.

Funny thing, age is. I put it on the other day, proud of myself that the search was finally over. Strange how my Event ASP8 monitors turned into an AM radio!

Man, the production wasn't just 'bad' it was 'fucking horrible!' Shit, the things that used to amuse us before the Internet came along....

-0z-

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

The vibe and energy is definitely there, but so are the cheese-grater guitar sounds. Is it simply a case that metal production techniques have changed that much?

Thoughts??

This is a great question and I'm going to take a stab at an answer: Yes, and the main reason was a lack of information.

For you younger guys, you have no idea what it was like. Not only was there little home recording equipment available, but there was no Internet! Recording to the amateur musician was something of a mystery. You certainly couldn't send Flemming Rasmussen an email and ask him how to make your kick drum more clear.

Also, as I recall, a huge part of the reason you looked forward to a new Megadeth/Slayer/Metallica/Pantera/Sepultura album back in the day was the great sound quality. That's directly related to their budget. Pretty much everything else was second tier IMHO.

No, I'm not an authority on the subject, but that's how I felt back then: that you were helpless without a big $$ contract. And that is exactly why I love helping out guys who don't have $$ contracts.

 

[Thrasher666]

If they had what we have today, the productions of today would be a insane.
Still love listen to old Slayer/Metallica/Sepultura... it's just got a vibe to it. They just wouldn't have been the same bands with today's knowledge.

 

[TheDude]

And back in the days, the computers didn't exist. Well, they did, but the first computer you actually could play music on, was release around '89 or so. The Mac II (or what the name was). For about €5000 or $6500!

So if you wanted to record your own music, you either did it in a studio (8, 16, or 24 track taperecorder), bought (borrowed?) a 4-track "homestudio" that used compact cassettes (had one), or used sound-on-sound (two cassette decks, one is playing music while you do the next take on top of it). Needless to say the sound got worse after a couple of takes )

I bought my first DAW in '96. It was a Mac clocking in at a whopping 100mhz! To be able to record 8 tracks on to it, I bought the Digidesign Audiomedia card, together with Cubase. I got the the computer for around €3000 ($4000) and the I/O gear was another €9000 ($12000). But BOY WAS I HAPPY!! 8 channels of audio and midi on top of that! YEEEHAAA!!! The next year Steinberg released something called "VST".

 

[Sweetnothing]

I don't know, being 30, I just listen to those albums and all I get is vibe, but at the time they were so aggresive sounding, maybe because even my other fave bands outside the metal world sounded weak too, but at the time it's all we had.
I remember, the first band I was in ( I was 15) decided to record a demo...well, the demo was tracked and mixed with a fostex 8 track, and we were so lucky cause most guys were recording with 4 tracks. The master was a TDK tape.
Besides, the only thing missing in many records today, sure, they sound killer, but they lack that kind of rawness and vibe I get from older records, everything's so polished now, but it's just my opinion.

 

[sparkyness]

This is a great question and I'm going to take a stab at an answer: Yes, and the main reason was a lack of information.

For you younger guys, you have no idea what it was like. Not only was there little home recording equipment available, but there was no Internet! Recording to the amateur musician was something of a mystery. You certainly couldn't send Flemming Rasmussen an email and ask him how to make your kick drum more clear.

Also, as I recall, a huge part of the reason you looked forward to a new Megadeth/Slayer/Metallica/Pantera/Sepultura album back in the day was the great sound quality. That's directly related to their budget. Pretty much everything else was second tier IMHO.

.

Great Answer......I'm 32 and grew up with metal. I was just old enough to get into Maiden in the Beast era (thanks to older metalhead cousins) and haven't looked back. I remember my head getting spun around the first time I heard Rust in Peace because NOTHING sounded like that album did. It was so precise and heavy for it's time. Ditto for Reign in Blood....compared to Hell Awaits the production values are like night and day. That's what Geffen and Rick Rubin will do for you in 1986 I guess!

I kinda got out of metal for a few years in the mid-90's and disappeared up my arsehole into sad bastard moody stuff, as the whole nu-metal thing was kicking in and it looked like Bret Michaels with a nose ring. I only came back to metal a couple of years ago and the production values are so different to me now. We didn't have anything remotely like Lamb of God's last two albums which have simply blown me away and raised the bar (for me) in terms of metal production as far as I'm concerned. Despite hearing a lot of overly slick productions out there, it's a pretty healthy time for good quality productions and metal in general I think.

 

[smy1]

I agree with everything being said, but just look at it this way:

In 2020 some dudes will be thinking on their brainwired forum about "how crap the production on the Lamb Of God albums was" and they'll never get why "that Sneap was such an in-demand producer back then", cause then they'll have 64bit, 192khz playback systems that totally slay everything we ever heard today - and every kid starts playing guitar with its "$99 guitar stack VSTi" that sounds better than any Krank/Mesa/Engl/5150 ever did.

It's just technology advancing and people making the best of what they have. And it's always been like that. I bet the folks who made records in the mid-80s were thinking "Damn, why did those Black Sabbath records from the 70s sound so soft and weak!? We are totally kicking their asses here" ...

I just like that I can make a whole record in my home studio that 99% of all listeners can not distinguish from a big budget production.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

In 2020 some dudes will be thinking on their brainwired forum about "how crap the production on the Lamb Of God albums was" and they'll never get why "that Sneap was such an in-demand producer back then", cause then they'll have 64bit, 192khz playback systems that totally slay everything we ever heard today - and every kid starts playing guitar with its "$99 guitar stack VSTi" that sounds better than any Krank/Mesa/Engl/5150 ever did.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I think in 2020 there will be a big push to make bands sound live on stage like they sound on their records. I don't think recorded sound will be as hip as it is now...there are going to be too many good bands (on an equal playing field) and what's going to set the men from the boys will be the live shows.

 

[sabbat35]

I'm not sure I agree with that. I think in 2020 there will be a big push to make bands sound live on stage like they sound on their records. I don't think recorded sound will be as hip as it is now...there are going to be too many good bands (on an equal playing field) and what's going to set the men from the boys will be the live shows.

Thats a very good point. Because purchased music is dying - i think production will strip back to "retro" 80's sound [in metal]. you will want your band that is playing on your stereo too sound like that at the gig.

This is one of the reasons i LOVE bootlegs so much- some of the boots i have for slayer for instance sound incredible.

Its hard to put in words exactly what i mean,but im saying that production will be secondary at some point - live sound will be at the forefront.

 

[Gnash]

Strange how my Event ASP8 monitors turned into an AM radio!



-0z-

Yeah, I have those same monitors. It's a way, big difference than the Poineer 6x9s in the old camaro in the 80s. I can't take any other speaker seriously, since I bought my asp8s.

 

[Gnash]

Yeah, those bands that were lucky enough to get Alex Perialis, have albums that still sound great. Overkill's album "Horrorscope" is a fucking masterpiece production. Check it out. Or, Wrathchild America's "Climbing the Walls" Analog recording back then was a nightmare, and still is . Interesting though, pop or semi rock bands (LA hairmetal to Duran Duran), with big budgets have amazing sounding analog productions. Most real metal bands that weren't accepted by the mainstream, but were actually AMAZING, get the dirty tape heads, and the stupid reverb drenched snare and vocals . It's sad, but metal really got fucked on production early on.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Two words: British Steel.


Was & still is a fantastic sounding record. Not thrash mind you, but magnificent nonetheless.

Actually, one of my favourite sounding 80s album from the thrash genre would have to be Megadeth's "Peace Sells." Fantastic stuff!

 

[Gnash]

Two words: British Steel.

Oh Yeah!! It's weird how Priest was so baddass on British Steel and SFV, then Defenders of the faith had that fucked up snare and Turbo just got silly, the snare on that uke: British Steel and Screaming for Vengeance are MUST OWN albums for all you whipper snappers out there. I was just thinking how bands have made so much money from me. I have Screaming for vengeance on record, then the cassette, then the fucking CD that's 3 sells for one album. That Live DVD of Priest at Budakon last year was fucking great, by the way!

 

[sparkyness]

when I started this thread one of the things I was thinking of was how good some of the hair metal albums sound in contrast to the speed metal and thrash productions even though they were recorded at the same time. If you listen to Blue Murder’s self-titled debut which was made around ‘88-89 the production is immense. That guitar sound is simply huge. John Sykes was a huge hero of mine. Then if I listen to something like Flotsam & Jetsam’s “No Place For Disgrace” (Hard on You is a killer track), my ears think someone has taken a cheese grater to them.

George Lynch’s Lynch Mob also had a massive sound and I still love their first 2 albums.

 

[Frayed ends of sanity]

I think the Souls of Black Album has a phasing guitar sound to it, like the typical sm57 up front, condenser backed up a few feet sound, no track lining up digitally afterwards. Practice what you preach doesn't have that sound at all, and that was done before the internet era.