Opeth has no musical theory????

[fhare]

Theory encompasses melody, harmony, time, notation, etc. Obviosly, someone in Opeth knows a good deal about most of this stuff, whether they know it or not. Even if they don't know what it's called, that wouldn't matter until they try to explain it to others outside their creative team, and even then it's probably only a minor inconvienence. The end result is the only thing that matters, right? We all know Opeth kill on that front.

 

[Anarkissed]

I think too much music theory can ruin a band. I would rather a band know nothing about theory so that they remain completely focused on the music, as opposed to what inversion to use next, or what scale should go over this, what mode sounds best, etc. etc.

 

[deliverance]

I think too much music theory can ruin a band. I would rather a band know nothing about theory so that they remain completely focused on the music, as opposed to what inversion to use next, or what scale should go over this, what mode sounds best, etc. etc.

fuckin A man :cough: dream theater :cough:

 

[IAmTheAntichrist]

I think it was Am/D# actually.

I would have just called that chord "a jimi hendrix chord with the last note down a fret"

Theory shmearey.

Theory is based on what sounds good naturally. If you already know what sounds good naturally then you inevitably find the classical "music theory" even if you don't realize you've found it.

 

[Pseud0]

and that chord in the drapery falls

the "drama" is adding an inverted tritone of A (D#)

 

[Moon_City]

Of course they'd have at least a little bit of knowledge of theory, otherwise they'd be making absolute crap. They would know about scales, what keys to play in, chord progressions, modes and all that, surely. If they didn't know that, they could be playing in the chord progression of say for example A minor (which is a B C d e F G) and play a solo over the top with sharps in it or whatever, when they're not meant to be there. And they'd know about pentatonic scales and everything as well. Their music is too complex for it to be made without any music theory knowledge.

 

[Pseud0]

^ i always thought that mike knew next to nothing about chords/scales/modes (some obviously) and just played what sounds good

like if he plays a sharp he would hear that it doesn't fit and add a natural

 

[Brains for breakfast]

I don't get the animosity against music theory these days. It ain't a fucking law thats sais you MUST play this note, it is the study of wich notes and chords sound nice with each other. Even if you don't know any, anything you compose that sounds good to your ears IS theory.

Besides, most people think dis-tonal stuff sounds pretty awfull usualy too.

Why waste 3 hours composing a song, if it can be done in 30 minutes with the exact same result? You hear the music in your head, and use theory to figure wich notes it where. And if your stuck, you use theory to find that "drama" note.

 

[BRI]

Ironically Mike has more knowledge in music theory than most other metal musicians.

 

[affinityband]

If you have been classically trained in music you will definatley be able to hear that in their music they have. although many people say that people that have been musically trained loose their ability to be creative, this is mostly bollocks. if you have been musically trained and your trying to make up a riff, you could go to the note that would theoretically make sense, but that doesnt have to sound right. i think depending on how you think will change the aspect of what you are writing. i know i will get flamed for this, but an example of predicatible riff making is dream theater. if you listen to a dream theater riff it is exactly what you would expect out of them. the fact that the time signatures are fucked up as hell, he still makes up riffs that sound very boring compared to Opeth riffs. i dont think mikael and co have been musically trained. but if your musically trained its not impossible to write stuff like opeth. it just means you can write it out for other musicians who it will make sense too. music theory is a good skill to have i think, just because you can differentiate between whats obvious and whats not. but some people can hear that anyway.

 

[Hondo]

I don't get the animosity against music theory these days. It ain't a fucking law thats sais you MUST play this note, it is the study of wich notes and chords sound nice with each other. Even if you don't know any, anything you compose that sounds good to your ears IS theory.

Yeah, knowing a lot of theory doesn't mean all you can do is shred up and down scales in 9/8 time. The whole point of it is that you know what everything is and how it fits together. If I were a musician, I'd want to learn all I could about what I was doing.

 

[Ermz]

Theory is based on what sounds good naturally. If you already know what sounds good naturally then you inevitably find the classical "music theory" even if you don't realize you've found it.

That statement pretty much summarizes the entire subject. Even if you don't knowingly do it, you still abide by music theory when you compose and play. Music Theory encompasses essentially everything musical, but instead of going by abstracts, it attempts to quantify all the notes, intervals, dynamics etc. in a way that is practical to understand for a musician.

I find it quite amusing, at this time I'm torn between music theory and actual physics, because as an audio engineering student, you have to think about sound in terms of frequency, amplitude, phase etc. and to identify with the musicians themselves you have to relate all that into musical terminology. God help you if the musicians themselves don't understand either.

I think it's better to have at least a vague idea of what you're doing. To recap, music theory is about quantifying what is already there. You don't 'lose' or 'learn' anything in particular after you understand the theory, you only become aware of more possibilities, and perhaps cement in your mind, less arbitrary terms to describe chord structures, or note progressions you've always used and appreciated ie. instead of 'let's play that cool metal run to start the solo' you can say 'why don't we start it off in 16th note triplets, running up a Harmonic Minor in A, starting at the root and then finishing at the octave'.

 

[Nairolf]

YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW THEORY TO HAVE AN INSTINCT!

sorry but this idea that you compose crap or that its unbelievable to do stuff without knowing theory is rubbish. Theory is a way of analysing NOT composing. Composing is a visceral activity, it comes from the heart not the brain, THEN when you look through you can identify what "patterns" have what effect but if you go about composing something because you know that "a diminshed seventh can sound sinister" then you end up with something soulless and vacant. Theory is a tool for analysis not composing. It isn't a set of isntructions that say "you want a sinister sound? use dimisnshed 7th" Finding out that playing the sequence of notes for a diminished seventh sounds sinister takes no genius or skill at all, theory is a way of documenting it so you don't have to work it out again. Mikael doesn't know theory? so what. He composes with instincts and it is a visceral activity. This is also why much Opeth sounds different to each other. If he thought "i need to use a v, iv, i sequence fo rthis cadance" then much opeth would sound similar fact is it doesn't

 

[Hondo]

i know i will get flamed for this, but an example of predicatible riff making is dream theater. if you listen to a dream theater riff it is exactly what you would expect out of them. the fact that the time signatures are fucked up as hell, he still makes up riffs that sound very boring compared to Opeth riffs.

A lot of people hate Dream Theater here, so I woudn't expect many flames. Petrucci is an average riff writer at best, so the music sucks when that's the focus, like when they're trying to be all metal. But just for song-serving riffs, he's fine. Akerfeldt is also a fucking riff sniper, so a lot of bands don't compare too well to Opeth.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

I read on an interview (I think it was posted a link here about 3 years ago) where Mikael says he hadn't been tutored in musical theory as guitarrist. He had only been given some tips on clean singing by Dan Swanö (perhaps about breathing technique).

I play guitar for about 11 years (with a sort-of a pause of 4 years in between), I've never learned theory since I started playing - I was only told how to make a powerchord, actually...I can say that most of the theory I learned, was in 2005 when I learned about note lengths, time signatures and not a lot more by trial and error whilst trying to tab my songs on guitar pro. I don't think I will ever need to learn more than what I currently know but practising what I know. If I find myself stuck on a song, I pick up a keyboard sequence the progression and start making experiments with other notes and progressions blindly until I hear something that I think is worth working on.

However, I see several cases where theory may be useful: When you get stuck on a progression and don't know where to go after it, especially when you've done a lot of clean/whatever breaks and a fade out isn't something that would come well in the current context of the structure, etc... stuff I've gone and keep going through as I compose.

 

[Ermz]

Knowing music theory comes in handy when you're composing for multiple instruments. In a standard metal set-up where it's 2 guitars and a bass, this is no problem for someone who doesn't know theory. But, if you try to bring orchestral elements to your music, it starts getting a bit more challenging. It is a bitch sitting there for an hour trying to work out something you came up with on guitar and transcribe it to piano, and then subsequently work out what notes will fit the key its in, without knowledge of the instrument itself.

Music Theory is a good medium to write multi-timbrally. So in that sense it's a good compositional tool.

 

[Nairolf]

yes for polyphonic compositions it is useful..you can isolate each line and how it works with greater ease but still it can be done just as well without theory i think although it IS a very useful knowledge

 

[Justin S.]

Dudes, who needs any rules or knowledge? Fuck school too, I can speak just fine without knowing how to write!

Learning how to spell kills your creativity.

 

[Stimuli]

^

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and HAH!

 

[KingJaymz]

Yeah, you could argue that music doesn't exist and it's just sound. You could even argue that sound doesn't exist since we can't completely trust our senses. I am reading about shit like this in my Philosophy class.

Philosophy is lame.

The only the it proves is that you can argue about anything.