Pod XT with stomp boxes?

[Kazrog]

What kind of EQ (if any) are you using with the TS and criminal?

I would tell you but I am at the office right now. As I have the POD XT Live (the footboard) I can't use Line 6 Edit software (yet, until they release a version the supports the Live) but as soon as I can I will upload my settings for you guys.

Generally, though: it's a bit mid-heavy with v30 speakers so I scoop it a bit with the POD's post EQ. I leave the Criminal EQs and gain "on the dots" because it's where they sound best IMO, the Line 6 people knew what was up. The TS808 is set to:

Drive: 9:00 o clock
Tone: 12:00 o clock
Level: 12:00 o clock

In Digital Performer I use the MW EQ to notch out 13khz fizz, and I low pass everything above that. Hope that helps. Honestly I feel that this tone rivals Soilwork, Machine Head, etc.!

 

[black sugar]

I'd like to take a moment in this thread to give props to Kazrog, wicked_s, and all for the whole pedal in front of the POD idea.

I finally broke down and bought a PODxt a few weeks ago and I re-acquired a TS-9DX from a friend yesterday and wow... Huge difference. I live almost an hour from my rehearsal space, so the TS-9 with the PODxt re-amp mode setup is gonna be a huge time saver.

And not only is it great for metal, but blues and classic rock tones as well. I'm working on something today that reqires more of a Orange/Marshall Plexi on steroids kind of tone and the TS-9 totally made it happen.

I also had the opportunity to A/B the TS-9 with the Yngwie pedal from this thread today. IMHO, the TS-9 is the best on rhythm and the YJM308 is the best on leads. And Analog Man does mods for both...

 

[Kazrog]

I also had the opportunity to A/B the TS-9 with the Yngwie pedal from this thread today. IMHO, the TS-9 is the best on rhythm and the YJM308 is the best on leads. And Analog Man does mods for both...

Yeah those Yngwie pedals are cheap!!!! I should pick one up and try it for leads.

 

[vile_ator]

That lead tone is so good cause the guy can play so damn well. Incredible emulation of Yngwie's style. But it doesnt sound like Yngwie's tone to me. Yngwie's tone is much more meaty. He gets it from a Marshall cranked up really loud and overdriving the amp and speaker. Cant do that with a POD guys.

You guys will all have to face it eventually. The PODs are cool devices that are very versitle. But they just do not sound like real amps. They dont cut through the mix as well as the amps they emulate, and they dont push the speaker like the amps they emulate.

Seems like people would decide what amp's sound represents the best tone for them and then go out and but one of those amps. Get the real tone, not a picture of that tone.

sorry....

Colin

 

[wicked_s]

That lead tone is so good cause the guy can play so damn well. Incredible emulation of Yngwie's style. But it doesnt sound like Yngwie's tone to me. Yngwie's tone is much more meaty. He gets it from a Marshall cranked up really loud and overdriving the amp and speaker. Cant do that with a POD guys.

You guys will all have to face it eventually. The PODs are cool devices that are very versitle. But they just do not sound like real amps. They dont cut through the mix as well as the amps they emulate, and they dont push the speaker like the amps they emulate.

Seems like people would decide what amp's sound represents the best tone for them and then go out and but one of those amps. Get the real tone, not a picture of that tone.

sorry....

Colin

Well, thanks for the nice words. About the tone, I didn't try to get it to sound exactly like Yngwie's kind of tone, I just thought it sounded like a good solo-tone and I think it sound good to me. I'd really love to get lots of "real" amps to have laying around, but for the moment I don't have enough space for that. And for some people I think that products like POD are very convenient to have, like if you're living in an apartment and don't want your neighbours to kill ya. Anyway, I've just bought a bigger house and are moving in June, and I've convinced my wife that I will take the cellar to build a smaller studio. Then I'd deffinitely buy me a "real" amp to play around with.

 

[Kazrog]

You guys will all have to face it eventually. The PODs are cool devices that are very versitle. But they just do not sound like real amps. They dont cut through the mix as well as the amps they emulate, and they dont push the speaker like the amps they emulate.

Did you listen to my mp3? To me, this is as good as or better than any amp tone on any of the albums we love. Or... if you don't like my tone...

Did you listen to Andy's POD XT samples?

I agree that the "Yngwie" tone in this thread does not sound like Yngwie's tone... but with some tweaking I think it could. In any case it sounds great.

 

[jamesboyd]

hmmm, not being a dick but your sound is pretty fake and thin sounding to me (it's not your fault it's just a pod thing)

and yeah I would take andy's 'real amp' tones over the podxt one's anyday, the amount of balls and girth in the nevermore, skinlab etc etc sounds nothing like a pod.

the pod is getting way better but I just hear this really insanely awful frequency present in line 6 stuff (yes even the heads) between 1-4k that just sounds terribly 'false'

I'm sure you can get it way better and totally prove me wrong (I hope you do) but to claim a podxt and a tube screamer in a home studio is equivalent to a 'properly' recorded *rig* as part of full scale production is not helpful to anyone particularly yourself.

my 2 cents inserted

peace

-j

 

[Exsanguis]

I agree with James. While the PODxt sounds great for modelling amps, there's something missing from the real amp sound. I too have also noticed that odd frequency thing around 1-3 or 4K. It's really nice that we've finally been able to isolate the fizz now, though. I understand that sometimes it's the best that people have right now, and that's fine. Great records have been made with less-than-perfect gear, so I won't say that POD's can't be on professional releases(hell, Meshuggah's tone on Nothing is POD, and it's pretty decent). I just find something lacking.

PS - Kazrog, I think your tone is probably one of the few best POD tones I've ever heard, and if you're happy with it, then you've achieved what many people have yet to do: be satisfied with their tone.

 

[Kazrog]

I agree with James. While the PODxt sounds great for modelling amps, there's something missing from the real amp sound. I too have also noticed that odd frequency thing around 1-3 or 4K. It's really nice that we've finally been able to isolate the fizz now, though. I understand that sometimes it's the best that people have right now, and that's fine. Great records have been made with less-than-perfect gear, so I won't say that POD's can't be on professional releases(hell, Meshuggah's tone on Nothing is POD, and it's pretty decent). I just find something lacking.

PS - Kazrog, I think your tone is probably one of the few best POD tones I've ever heard, and if you're happy with it, then you've achieved what many people have yet to do: be satisfied with their tone.

Thanks. The POD fizz is zapped out of my sound, I notched at 13khz and rolled off any higher frequencies above that. I'm very happy with my tone at this point, but I credit a lot of this to having an EMG 85 in the bridge position (James Murphy's suggestion) and using the TS 808.

Meshuggah uses a POD Pro 2.0, the predecessor to the POD XT. I used to own one of these units, and sold it, because the amp models are nowhere near as accurate or ful as the XT. I love Meshuggah, but their records would sound a lot better if they used EMG pickups, and they'd be better off with a POD XT or a real amp.

I just ordered Native Instruments Guitar Rig, and I am curious to see if I can coax it into getting a great metal rhythm guitar sound. In my experiments with the demo I could get pretty close but not quite there. This product is the future though, and I think that when v 2.0 comes out, it will be shutting up a lot of real-amp purists.

 

[black sugar]

I think the POD vs. real amp is somewhat of a parallel to the Analog vs. Digital recording debate in a weird way.

Yeah, a real JCM800 professionally recorded sounds better than the POD model, but does it sound that much better that the POD is unacceptable? For some yes, for some no.

Does a 2" Studer sound better than Pro Tools? Many seem to think so, and digital recording was scoffed at initially (and still is), yet Pro Tools is now an accepted standard.

So to my parallel, it took a while for digital recording to close the gap with analog recording, but as it did, there were enough pros (cost, convenience) that began to outweigh the con (singular: quality gap), and at some point people began to jump ship and switch from analog to digital.

I feel that the same thing is happening with amp modeling to an extent. Given the limitations of my particular recording situation, I felt the pros of the PODxt far outweighed the con and I made the jump. Some people nod, some people scoff. What's new?

Honestly, I'll probably layer the POD tones with real amps at the end of the day, but in the meantime the POD is great for what I need it for: developing ideas and recording them satisfactorily.

And the beauty of the POD is that, thanks to the exchange of ideas in forums like this, the gap is narrowing. With enough of us monkeys banging away out here, one of us might write War and Peace and get a truly pro tone out of a POD soon.

My gut feeling is the technology will require a few more generations of development, but at some point, it will be very close to the real thing. But for right now, sometimes good enough just has to be good enough and you gotta damn the gear torpedoes and roll tape -- or hard drive.

We get so caught up in our own gear-obsessed minds, that we lose sight of the big picture:

About 0.00000001% of Earth's population could give a flying crap if the guitars are a little fizzy or whatever. Plenty of great, influential, and successful albums have crap production. It's not an excuse to be crappy, it's just a fact.

IMHO, the PODxt is good enough (see above) to allow a good song and a good performance to come through.

Damn. Sorry for the rant. I really do agree with you guys that the POD doesn't sound as good as a real amp! Haha.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I think the POD vs. real amp is somewhat of a parallel to the Analog vs. Digital recording debate in a weird way.

Yeah, a real JCM800 professionally recorded sounds better than the POD model, but does it sound that much better that the POD is unacceptable? For some yes, for some no.

Does a 2" Studer sound better than Pro Tools? Many seem to think so, and digital recording was scoffed at initially (and still is), yet Pro Tools is now an accepted standard.

So to my parallel, it took a while for digital recording to close the gap with analog recording, but as it did, there were enough pros (cost, convenience) that began to outweigh the con (singular: quality gap), and at some point people began to jump ship and switch from analog to digital.

I feel that the same thing is happening with amp modeling to an extent. Given the limitations of my particular recording situation, I felt the pros of the PODxt far outweighed the con and I made the jump. Some people nod, some people scoff. What's new?

Honestly, I'll probably layer the POD tones with real amps at the end of the day, but in the meantime the POD is great for what I need it for: developing ideas and recording them satisfactorily.

And the beauty of the POD is that, thanks to the exchange of ideas in forums like this, the gap is narrowing. With enough of us monkeys banging away out here, one of us might write War and Peace and get a truly pro tone out of a POD soon.

My gut feeling is the technology will require a few more generations of development, but at some point, it will be very close to the real thing. But for right now, sometimes good enough just has to be good enough and you gotta damn the gear torpedoes and roll tape -- or hard drive.

We get so caught up in our own gear-obsessed minds, that we lose sight of the big picture:

About 0.00000001% of Earth's population could give a flying crap if the guitars are a little fizzy or whatever. Plenty of great, influential, and successful albums have crap production. It's not an excuse to be crappy, it's just a fact.

IMHO, the PODxt is good enough (see above) to allow a good song and a good performance to come through.

Damn. Sorry for the rant. I really do agree with you guys that the POD doesn't sound as good as a real amp! Haha.

Yeah I pretty much concur with this whole black sugar spiel.

 

[black sugar]

Haha. Thanks. Well if I do one thing well, it's spiel.

That's not to say that the spiel is any good, I'm just prone to spielage.

 

[johnzorn]

I also agree with Black Sugar. Don't player hate, participate.

 

[Kazrog]

I think whatever "quality gap" once existed has been closed by POD XT and Guitar Rig. I definitely agree that POD 1.0, 2.0, and Amp Farm were not quite there, though... although the Flextone II series amps still sound great live...

Also, I feel that the quality of digital recording for the last 10+ years has been better than analog in every way.

 

[johnzorn]

I think whatever "quality gap" once existed has been closed by POD XT and Guitar Rig. I definitely agree that POD 1.0, 2.0, and Amp Farm were not quite there, though... although the Flextone II series amps still sound great live...

Also, I feel that the quality of digital recording for the last 10+ years has been better than analog in every way.

I feel the same way totally. I never got into the analog realm of recording, mainly because when I even started to dable in it, it was my bass player and I rigging up Windows Sound Recorder and using a Sound Blaster 32 as a drum machine. Those were the days. But since anything analog goes to digital (as in straight to CD) nowdays, your purists still say analog is better. This also goes back to those who say records are better than cd. Hell, some even say cassette tapes are better than cd. But I digress.

In most any topic on this, its all about the details. Honestly analog or digital will put up the details and sound good. As with the Pod XT. Yeah, it won't sound EXACTLY like an Engl, or a Mesa, and honestly I havne't even heard half the amps they model. But I do know that its gets pretty damn close, and in a mix, I really can't tell. Listening to a kick ass and then knowing that a Pod was used isn't going to make me dislike the song anymore. I've heard a lot of song with the Pod XT, and for the life of me couldnt tell what amp they were using. I just knew that the way that person dial it in, it sounded good in the song. Hell, Illdisposed and Katakysm use Line 6 stuff, and their songs rip (some might argue they use more than Line 6 amps or what not during recording, but I know because I wan't there, I just know they use Line 6).
Long story short, I really don't know what amp I want, let alone have money, let alone feel like messing with a tube or solid state rig for awhile. The Pod's get help me get my ideas down and better than that, they help me get the tones in my head for the specific song. Maybe I'm ranting, but I like my Pod XT.

 

[Ermz]

Well the thing with the Analog vs Digital debate... I never understood why, nor understood the difference. But I've heard for myself and ever since getting deeper into the engineering course and corresponding with more engineers I've gained a real appreciation for analog tape.

I mean just listen to Portishead's Dummy (tape all the way) and compare it to something like the new Kreator. Even after being pressed onto CD, Dummy still has a degree of warmth that the Kreator album lacks. The Kreator album is sterile, lifeless and in my opinion not as interesting to listen to as the Portishead album simply because of the production.

I just hope digital gets to the point where this is no longer a factor, especially as the last tape manufacturer in the world closed down.

Guitar Rig and Line 6 are rapidly bridging the gap, but they still aren't there. All Guitar Rig and POD recordings I've heard are distinctly artificial, sterile and simply not that interesting to listen to. But of course there's alot to emulate and things will only get better.

It comes down to digital being alot more convenient in the end, and even the hardcore analog purists have found using it is alot more versatile and cost effective. Analog is basically just a thing of the past.

 

[Fabbio]

Same old same old....

I wonder if I had the McFLy Delorean and did go back to 1950 to give someone a listen to Carcass or Arch enemy...

Distortion was an accident that happened to grow like a good sound but basically it's 'WROOONG'.

It's all up to ears and individual taste. Go say 'the Pod it's the REAL sound, natural!!!' to your nephews, that will play the 'wrist inserted microchip®©' that will transmit sounds not to the ears but vibrations to the bones of the pelvis...

Hehe....

 

[Kazrog]

Same old same old....

I wonder if I had the McFLy Delorean and did go back to 1950 to give someone a listen to Carcass or Arch enemy...

Distortion was an accident that happened to grow like a good sound but basically it's 'WROOONG'.

It's all up to ears and individual taste. Go say 'the Pod it's the REAL sound, natural!!!' to your nephews, that will play the 'wrist inserted microchip®©' that will transmit sounds not to the ears but vibrations to the bones of the pelvis...

Hehe....

Genius post!!!

 

[Fabbio]

Genius post!!!

Thank you! Thank you very much....

You're too kind...

...I'm flattered...

Seriously.

 

[Kazrog]

I discovered another trick...

Yesterday I bought a Planet Waves guitar cable, and it slays the Monster cable I've been using. The TS808 still sounds awesome in front of the Criminal (5150) model, but if I play with the Planet Waves cable into the Angel (Engl Powerball) model, I can get killer tone without the screamer. There's so many possibilities with the POD XT that I'm sure I haven't explored all the options.

In any event, I'm glad I have the TS808, it has a smoother sound than the POD XT's emulation of it.