Pops and clicks.. FP10 playback

[Morgan C]

Recently got an FP10, to use as a soundcard and mic input. Works fairly well I guess, but still hasn't alleviated my problem of not being able to mix as many tracks as I'd like.

Eg. I started mixing that 'sneap band' that was posted a week or so ago. Had to do the drums in one project file. Then bounced that down, imported all the guitars, the bass and the vocals, and the mixed drums into another project file. About 20 tracks all up. SoloC plugin (preamp sim) on all 6 guitar tracks, those bus'd to a single track with an impulse. Other than that, just EQ and compression.

Pops and clicks like crazy. CPU at about 40-60%, disk use at about 20%..
AND I cant edit the drums without opening up the other project file, editing, bouncing down and then checking in the mix.

I put my buffer size up to 1024 and thats reduced the number of pops a lot, but considering the default is 128.. I don't think this is the right approach (and the pops are still there).

Also, there is a big lag when I press 'play' (perhaps from the massive buffer size?), and I sometimes get dropouts.

Computer specs:
2Ghz Duo, 2GB Ram, Windows XP, Sonar 8 Studio. Not a GREAT computer (by today's standards anyway) but it should be good enough to get the job done. Unfortunately its not :/

other info: the audio files, but not the program, were on an external hard-drive, USB2. I had iTunes open but I seriously doubt that would have affected performance (CPU was fine, different soundcards).

 

[James Murphy]

if the pops and clicks are not in the audio files themselves then you have clocking issue. resolve your sync problem and the clicks and pops will go away.

 

[Morgan C]

On the FP10 control panel, Clock Source can be set to 'internal' or 'S/PDIF'. I'll try putting it to S/PDIF and see if that works.

edit: Seems to have worked. Still had pops and buzzes when I put the Buffer Size back to default(128) but they seem to have gone away now that I've put it to 256. Will bump this thread if the problem comes back, but thanks for now.

 

[GuitarHack]

Anyway, what chipset is on your 1394 card? VIA, Texas Instruments, agere..............? Some onboard firewire ports are not great with the Firepod (or other interfaces for that matter). If you are using a PCI 1394 card, make sure it is 1394 only and not a combo of 1394 and USB. Read the Presonus forums. There are some compatibility issues with some Video cards also. Turn of any wireless network.

FWIW I have a cheap PCI 1394 card with an Agere chipset and it works OK on my machine. I can't say I have 20+ tracks open often (ever) though.

EDIT: Your EDIT beat me to it.

 

[Morgan C]

Okay its still happening. Less frequently, but still. I'm watching the CPU meter, and, on a pretty complex track - a few reverbs, lots of buses, comps, par comps, multibands, etc. the CPU is hovering at around 50% for almost the entire song, but just randomly it jumps up to 100% and then does a buzz. Sometimes when a new track comes in, or theres some automation, other times for no reason at all.

Is there any way to remedy this?

 

[James Murphy]

if you have more than one device connected digitally you need choose one as the sync master and the others as slaves... everyting must resolve to the same sync. set you interface to internal then set anything connected to it digitally to operate as a slave, and to receieve it's clock source at the port to which it is connected digitally to the interface.

 

[GuitarHack]

Okay its still happening. Less frequently, but still. I'm watching the CPU meter, and, on a pretty complex track - a few reverbs, lots of buses, comps, par comps, multibands, etc. the CPU is hovering at around 50% for almost the entire song, but just randomly it jumps up to 100% and then does a buzz. Sometimes when a new track comes in, or theres some automation, other times for no reason at all.

Is there any way to remedy this?

It may not be a remedy (as such, but a "ruling out" session), ummmmm did you read my post at all, or am I invisible?

Sorry for sounding arrogant, ..........but I am trying to sound arrogant. :Smug:


Oh, yeah, this could belong in the "Equipment" sub-forum too. Hell, someone was bound to say it.

EDIT: wow, my 900th post and I am being arrogant. It was bound to happen at some point.

 

[wishtheend]

With the CPU showing that high - it's going to be due to your computer specs. A faster quad-core and more memory should resolve the issue.

 

[Morgan C]

if you have more than one device connected digitally...

No, only the one FP10

It may not be a remedy (as such, but a "ruling out" session), ummmmm did you read my post at all, or am I invisible?

Hah, sorry. The problem seems to have jumped from the FP10 to my CPU.. although I never had this problem before running on the computer's soundcard.

To answer your queries, I'm using the inbuilt Firewire port on the laptop. No idea about chipsets or whatever.. all default. "i.LINK (IEEE 1394) S400 (4 pin)" is all I can gleam from the website (http://vaio-online.sony.com/prod_info/vgn-fe38gp/).

@Wishtheend
As a laptop its pretty hard to upgrade the processor or whatever, if it was a PC I would definitely upgrade that, and the RAM. But 40-50% is not that high.. I should be able to push twice that (theoretically). This happens, also, on tracks with very little going on plug-in-wise, as I said above.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Okay its still happening. Less frequently, but still. I'm watching the CPU meter, and, on a pretty complex track - a few reverbs, lots of buses, comps, par comps, multibands, etc. the CPU is hovering at around 50% for almost the entire song, but just randomly it jumps up to 100% and then does a buzz. Sometimes when a new track comes in, or theres some automation, other times for no reason at all.

Is there any way to remedy this?

Still at 128 or 256?

You don't need low latency when mixing, so put the buffer up to max for more cpu headroom.

 

[Executioner213]

Hah, sorry. The problem seems to have jumped from the FP10 to my CPU.. although I never had this problem before running on the computer's soundcard.

To answer your queries, I'm using the inbuilt Firewire port on the laptop. No idea about chipsets or whatever.. all default. "i.LINK (IEEE 1394) S400 (4 pin)" is all I can gleam from the website (http://vaio-online.sony.com/prod_info/vgn-fe38gp/).

@Wishtheend
As a laptop its pretty hard to upgrade the processor or whatever, if it was a PC I would definitely upgrade that, and the RAM. But 40-50% is not that high.. I should be able to push twice that (theoretically). This happens, also, on tracks with very little going on plug-in-wise, as I said above.

Your computers soundcard will have a higher priority than anything you plug in via USB/Firewire.

Keep playing with the settings on it. Changing your buffers may help quite a bit.

Your firewire connection may not be suitable enough. Just because things are integrated don't mean they are always sufficient. You may need to look at process of elimination.
- Try a different firewire cable.
- Then try a different firewire card (with a Texas Instruments chipset...very important).
- Then try running it on another computer.
- Then try upgrading your laptop.

Also, scour the forums on Presonus.com - they can answer just about anything related to thier products.

 

[wishtheend]

Some brands of laptops have been known to cause issues with some of the presonus gear. I believe they can trace it down to a fan issue. The computer basically monitors when to turn on and off the fan which causes some interupts in audio when the fan switches on/off.

 

[Morgan C]

Still at 128 or 256?

You don't need low latency when mixing, so put the buffer up to max for more cpu headroom.

Will do this.. I just assumed since the default is 128, putting it up to 512 or 1024 must mean I'm doing something else wrong (as they're pretty extreme settings).

@Executioner
I managed to find out the Firewire chip I have.. its 'Texas Instruments OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller'. So that should be fine. The cable I'm using is the one that came with the FP10. None of my other computers have Firewire inputs. Hopefully increasing the buffer size will do.



Also, I found some guide on the net as well. Said to set "Processor Scheduling" to "Background Services" instead of "Programs". Will see how that goes. Also found Virtual Memory on the same page, which I increased from about 1500 to its recommended 3000MB. I'll let you guys know how this goes.

 

[Erkan]

Will do this.. I just assumed since the default is 128, putting it up to 512 or 1024 must mean I'm doing something else wrong (as they're pretty extreme settings).

Na uh, the latency control is there so you can choose how hard your computer is going to have to work to meet your demands. When you play live through your computer, you demand a low latency naturally. But do you need 4 ms response when you're mixing things? I have a hard time believing anyone needs 4 ms response while mixing so just crank that bitch up. I always leave mine at 2048 samples when I mix, and 64 while tracking.

 

[Morgan C]

Well changing the buffer size does almost nothing.. even from 128 to like 2048. But, changing the latency on the FP10 from the default 2ms to the max, 40ms seems to have gotten rid of the problem. This thread might resurface if/when I start tracking drums though.. vocals and everything are fine with just 3 or 4 tracks total, drums with 8 tracks and low latency :/.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

The only other thing I can think of is try disabling your network card, especially if it's a wireless one.
Your Firewire card uses the Texas Instruments chipset (the best) so it's not that.

You can check for conflicts by going to start>Run, type MSinfo32
That will bring up the System information window, click the Hardware tab and Conflicts/Sharing option. If there is anything else using the same IRQ as the Firewire that could be the cause of the trouble.

One last thing, in Sonar are you using the ASIO driver? I don't see that mentioned yet, but we may have been assuming.

 

[Morgan C]

@AudoGeekZine..

I am using ASIO.

I looked at the Conflicts/Sharing..

The TI FIrewire card uses IRQ16.. along with 5 other devices:
-Mobile Intel(R) 955XM/945GM/PM/GMS/940GML Express PCI Express Root Port - 27A1 {NFI What this is)
-Graphics card
-Intel 82801G PCI Express Root Port - 27D2
-Intel USB Universal Host Controller
-Generic CardBus Controller


I've got a pretty good understanding of computers but I've never seen this stuff before.. no idea what an IRQ is or how to change it so that the Firewire is on its own.

 

[Erkan]

Man, IRQ... brings up some old school memories Like whenever sounds didn't work in a DOS game, you'd check if there was an IRQ conflict etc and manually set them to not conflict ... haha good ol' times.

 

[Morgan C]

Right.. from what I've researched, IRQ seems to be (in most cases) a thing of the past? Will having 6 devices on the same IRQ, including my FP10, cause the problems I've been having? I've looked at a few ways to change IRQ and the most basic way I can't do, the option is greyed out in Device Manager, and the other options involve DOS and changing my computer to a 'standard computer'... I don't want to do this unless its absolutely necessary.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Interrupt Resource Conflict
Basically these things sharing the same IRQ number have to take turns to operate. Since it's a laptop there's nothing you can do to correct the situation, ususally you move the pci card to another slot.

What does Presonus say about this problem?

I've seen weirdness with graphics or network on same IRQ as firewire