PPUSA Alumni start Kickstarter Campaign

[mattbrood]

From Voyager's Facebook page

Well, what can we say? A huge THANK YOU to all of you wonderful people for the overwhelming response to our Kickstarter campaign. We're less than 24 hours in and already we're over halfway towards our target!

Whether you've pledged to come bang some drums on our album, or if you just shared our link around, again, THANK YOU so much for your support. It means more than you know to see that people are out there who want to hear more of the music that we love making. We can't wait to get this album out there as soon as possible.

We had plans of releasing little videos and soundbites and things as we reached certain levels, but we're kinda scrambling to whip those up now as we didn't realise we'd be hitting some of those targets so soon! Keep an eye out for those!

For now, we can release a track listing for the album, in no particular order, to tide us over...

The Domination Game
It's a Wonder
You, the Shallow
Hyperventilating
Peacekeeper
Orpheus
Embrace the Limitless
Breaking Down
A Beautiful Mistake
Summer Always Comes Again
Seasons of Age
Super-secret-yet-not-wholly-unfamiliar-bonus-track

It's not over yet, so keep sharing, plugging, pledging and doing what you awesome V fans are doing

Simone, Scott, Alex, Ash & Danny

Here's the link to the Kickstarter page:


http://kck.st/1do83LZ

 

[Mardoch]

So I guess this is just one of the new venues for buying albums, eh? I'm in.

EDIT: Hadn't watched the video yet. Those tunes sound freakin awesome! Like their best yet. Definitely pumped for this one.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

So I guess this is just one of the new venues for buying albums, eh? I'm in.

EDIT: Hadn't watched the video yet. Those tunes sound freakin awesome! Like their best yet. Definitely pumped for this one.

Actually no. You're technically donating to the band and they're treating you to a CD as a reward. While that sounds like it's "just another way to buy music" the difference is that the band has no actual responsibility to service you with rewards, even if they stipulate them on the page, since obviously, nothing is guaranteed when it's not even done yet.

That actually sucks for us, the people on the consumer end, because it means we're taking a risk if we donate with the mentality that we're getting a reward for our donation. A lot of people have been feeling burned by KS recently because of that mentality as a matter of fact - since not every kickstarter campaign can accommodate what it promises. An example of this is the Tim Schaffer game Broken Age that keeps getting pushed back even after meeting its goals - people are furious that Tim's releasing only half of it through Steam Early Access only next month, because that wasn't part of the deal in the original page. And that KS campaign generated like 4 mil in donations.

 

[Mardoch]

I was about 80% joking there. Obviously there are risks in investing. Anyone who thinks its a sure shot shouldn't be doing it. And anyone who sees crowd funding as something other than risky investments is fooling themselves.

I, for one, am OK with soaking some risk on a band's behalf. They are assuming a pretty big outlay to provide me with something I want so it's only fair for me to throw down too. And my risk is generally quite small.

 

[OrionSon]

I've been spending a lot on Kickstarter recently, plus I've been a little broke putting money aside for my two out of state concerts next year (counting ProgPower, of course), so I don't know if I can pledge too much, but I'll certainly be giving something in the near future. I'll just have to wait to figure out how much.

 

[Andir]

I'm in. Want the physical CD plus t-shirt. Love this band.

 

[espz]

I might be wacky because its almost time to go home after a stressful work week.....but for $400AUS....it says you can play drums with them. And all I can think about is that I SO want to be THIS guy for that:

 

[nomisofsiman]

I'm getting sick of kickstarter. I think it's being abused honestly.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

You and me both bruh.

 

[Oblivion Ocean]

Crowd-funding is basically about asking a group of people to fund some project that people would like to accomplish. Sometimes it is done because it cannot be accomplished any other way. Yet it can be done for any number reasons by any number of people. As long as people are not dishonest in their advertisement or what they promise in return (which we have fraud laws in place to stop) I am not sure how it is being abused. If you don't like the project or the motivation, don't fund it. If enough people agree with you, it does not get funded.

I don't really understand the people that assign some sort of definition to what the proper way to use Kickstarter or crowd-funding should be. If JayZ wants to Kickstart his new album to see higher profits by cutting out the record company or to gold plate the gold plating already on his car, I don't care. I won't donate to it, but as long as he is not committing fraud, it is not abusing it to me.

 

[mattbrood]

Crowd-funding is basically about asking a group of people to fund some project that people would like to accomplish. Sometimes it is done because it cannot be accomplished any other way. Yet it can be done for any number reasons by any number of people. As long as people are not dishonest in their advertisement or what they promise in return (which we have fraud laws in place to stop) I am not sure how it is being abused. If you don't like the project or the motivation, don't fund it. If enough people agree with you, it does not get funded.

I don't really understand the people that assign some sort of definition to what the proper way to use Kickstarter or crowd-funding should be. If JayZ wants to Kickstart his new album to see higher profits by cutting out the record company or to gold plate the gold plating already on his car, I don't care. I won't donate to it, but as long as he is not committing fraud, it is not abusing it to me.

THIS!

The fact is that Voyager are not rich rockstars, they are musicians with day jobs and they don't have a record company fronting the cash to record an album, and I guess people are happy to contribute to Voyager's kickstarter campaign. The band is less than $2,000 from their goal in just 24 hours. Amazing!

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Crowd-funding is basically about asking a group of people to fund some project that people would like to accomplish. Sometimes it is done because it cannot be accomplished any other way. Yet it can be done for any number reasons by any number of people. As long as people are not dishonest in their advertisement or what they promise in return (which we have fraud laws in place to stop) I am not sure how it is being abused. If you don't like the project or the motivation, don't fund it. If enough people agree with you, it does not get funded.

It's being abused because too many people are treating Kickstarter as a store to sell goods and services to fans, which creates a bubble that will inevitably burst if it hasn't already. I'm not saying Voyager is abusing its fans, and I love the band so whatever - but there are only so many times where bands can ask fans to fund albums before people are inevitably going to get mad when the band encounters delays or needs more money.

I don't really understand the people that assign some sort of definition to what the proper way to use Kickstarter or crowd-funding should be. If JayZ wants to Kickstart his new album to see higher profits by cutting out the record company or to gold plate the gold plating already on his car, I don't care. I won't donate to it, but as long as he is not committing fraud, it is not abusing it to me.

You're missing the point. The fundamental problem is that the person doing the kickstarter has no legal obligation to give you or any backers ANYTHING. They're asking for donations, and people give them donations. Anything that happens after that is a function of good will, and most people don't get that.

One of the more infamous examples was a woman who launched a kickstarter to fund a tabletop card-based game a few years ago. She reached her goal of a few thousand dollars, and then decided to stop working on the game because, I shit you not, "the sun" (as in, the big yellow star in the sky every morning) told her to not work on it anymore. (here's the link to the actual Kickstarter page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820893788/katalyka/posts/239764)

 

[Andir]

You're missing the point. The fundamental problem is that the person doing the kickstarter has no legal obligation to give you or any backers ANYTHING. They're asking for donations, and people give them donations. Anything that happens after that is a function of good will, and most people don't get that.

IMHO, this falls under the 'buyer beware' mantra (and perhaps Kickstarter needs some better disclosure language).

Otherwise, I do not see a problem with this as it is a way to help smaller bands survive. As Voyager points out, they get very little of the proceeds from the sale of each album (physical or digital). As a number of my favorite bands are now gone due to money issues, if this helps preserve some of the remaining ones, more power to them.

...and each person has the option to 'take the chance' and participate at the 'Kickstarter' level or wait until the end product is available.

Personally, I just 'kick'ed in my AU$65 dollars worth for the CD and a tshirt. As I sponsored this band for PP XII and had two meals with them when they were here, I am not worried about losing out. Cheers!

 

[TribunalRecords]

I was going to use kickstarter for my band's new album pre-ordering then decided not to give them our money. instead, people have 2 months to pre-order whatever they want (CDs, LPs and shirts) and we get it pressed up. simple enough, no middle man, and fans get what they paid for....music and merch.

 

[mattbrood]

from Voyager's Facebook page

VOYAGER are over the moon about the incredible response to our Kickstarter campaign for the new album. In only three days, we reached our target of $10,000 and the pledges still keep coming. Fans from as far as Russia, Panama and Finland have shown their support - the power and passion of our fanbase continues to amaze us! Lots of people have asked whether they can still pledge now that we've met target. The answer to that is YES, until 31 January 2014. You can still get the vinyl, t-shirts, special pledgers' packs, listening party and quirky rewards and the money means we can do more MORE: more touring, more quality music videos and more of our music to our crazy fans. We are Voyager, but YOU are AMAZING! Thank you!

 

[AeonicSlumber]

IMHO, this falls under the 'buyer beware' mantra (and perhaps Kickstarter needs some better disclosure language).

Otherwise, I do not see a problem with this as it is a way to help smaller bands survive. As Voyager points out, they get very little of the proceeds from the sale of each album (physical or digital). As a number of my favorite bands are now gone due to money issues, if this helps preserve some of the remaining ones, more power to them.

...and each person has the option to 'take the chance' and participate at the 'Kickstarter' level or wait until the end product is available.

Personally, I just 'kick'ed in my AU$65 dollars worth for the CD and a tshirt. As I sponsored this band for PP XII and had two meals with them when they were here, I am not worried about losing out. Cheers!

You're in the minority though. You know you're donating to the band, not necessarily EXPECTING something in return although you know maybe pitching in will help keep the band afloat and hopefully you'll get your reward as well - but most people are selfish, entitled, and fickle and all it takes is one band to go overbudget, or do something to transgress against what they promised because they have to to piss everyone off.

 

[TheLongshot]

You're in the minority though. You know you're donating to the band, not necessarily EXPECTING something in return although you know maybe pitching in will help keep the band afloat and hopefully you'll get your reward as well - but most people are selfish, entitled, and fickle and all it takes is one band to go overbudget, or do something to transgress against what they promised because they have to to piss everyone off.

With Kickstarter, what it is really up to is do you trust whom you are giving your money to to deliver on what they promise? For this, I'd trust a band that has delivered 4 albums to be able to deliver a 5th.

And yeah, investing in a Kickstarter is always a risk. There are many things that can go wrong that can change what someone delivers. That being said, I have yet to be a part of a Kickstarter that has failed, tho I do realize that there is always the potential to lose what I put in. It is always up to whomever is doing the investing to decide if it is worth the risk.

 

[Mardoch]

You're in the minority though. You know you're donating to the band, not necessarily EXPECTING something in return although you know maybe pitching in will help keep the band afloat and hopefully you'll get your reward as well - but most people are selfish, entitled, and fickle and all it takes is one band to go overbudget, or do something to transgress against what they promised because they have to to piss everyone off.

It seems to me that your argument boils down to "some naïve fools will bitch when they don't get what they put in for," which doesn't seem like great footing to argue against a system.

After having read their terms there's not much more that Kickstarter can do to ensue that funded projects deliver other than force legally binding contracts on people who start campaigns instead of using legally unenforceable ToSs.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

It seems to me that your argument boils down to "some naïve fools will bitch when they don't get what they put in for," which doesn't seem like great footing to argue against a system.

Except that I'm not arguing against a system.

After having read their terms there's not much more that Kickstarter can do to ensue that funded projects deliver other than force legally binding contracts on people who start campaigns instead of using legally unenforceable ToSs.

I never leveled any accusation against Kickstarter itself. In fact, I think Kickstarter is arguably the single most brilliant e-commerce business to spring up in years, because they take a cut of the donations and they aren't bound or responsible to anything. I definitely expect it (or its competitive sites like Indiegogo or gofundme) to become the next ebay, and will gladly buy stock if it ever went public. All I'm saying is that it's inevitable that bands are going to continue charging $500 "have a pizza with us" rewards to fund the album and someone's not going to deliver and people are going to shit. It won't stop kickstarter as a business, but it will hurt more prospects of bands using it to fund their records, which will hurt bands.

 

[Justin G]

You're in the minority though. You know you're donating to the band, not necessarily EXPECTING something in return although you know maybe pitching in will help keep the band afloat and hopefully you'll get your reward as well - but most people are selfish, entitled, and fickle and all it takes is one band to go overbudget, or do something to transgress against what they promised because they have to to piss everyone off.

See: White Wizzard