So, I have this friend, let's say his name is Joe (and no, my friend is not me, but I'd rather keep him anonymous as he is a member of this board), who has been chatting with me over AIM for a while now and most of our chats consist of his questions regarding the real differences in preamps and such.
From what I gather, he spends quite a bit of time at a site called The Listening Room or something like that that apparently does a ton of shootouts on things from mics to preamps to other audio equipment.
Basically we have discussed, from his questions, why an API 512c would be more desirable than say...an Alesis 26i/o's preamps. He has shown me one shootout where they used an Alesis 26i/o and an Onyx pre from a Mackie unit (maybe 800R? I dunno the details) both recording a dance beat through monitors. Sonically they appear to be pretty much identical. So that begs the question, is the Onyx really better? Why is it better?
He is aware, and I have pointed out as well, that you cannot make an accurate judgement from single mono files and that once you start layering them the better (i.e. more expensive) preamp will shine. Basically, track a whole project with both and you will see why the expensive one is...expensive, lol. He feels, though, that if one mono file shows they are sonically the same, as far as he can tell, then why would it matter if there were 1 or 8? I said the minute difference(s) from one get multiplied every time you add a track of it.
We both agree that, for the most part (read: don't take this too literally), most prosumer grade preamps can be eq'ed to sound like one another. Sure there will be some things that you aren't able to match precisely, but...it's generally all the same if you tweak it a little. But when you start getting into $800+ per channel, that's where you can hear where your money is going. An API preamp (for example) is expensive and desirable for a reason, anybody who has worked with them will tell you they rock. I have worked with them, love them - my dream front-end is API.
I tried explaining that when you have a quality preamp, you spend less time tweaking the source in post to get it where you want. But his argument is, save some money and just spend more time tweaking. If you are doing production full-time, you usually want to spend much less time working. So I can see that from a bedroom standpoint, sure - but not in the pro realm. There is a reason why pros buy the expensive shit. Not because it says API on the outside, but because API makes some killer shit and makes life easier from the get-go. If the preamps in a Behringer really were as good as a Neve unit I'm sure pros would for the Behringer....but it's not true and basically it just so happens that the best shit costs money - go figure.
There's also brand name bias, which to some degree is true I'm sure. But these companies have become synonomous with quality for a reason. I can't remember ever seeing a Neumann advertisement that was actually made by Neumann. So it's not like the bigger companies spend money on advertising. It's word of mouth mainly. The pro audio market is so specialized that advertising wouldn't really make sense, IMO. So it can't be that, right?
Personally I go by experience first if possible, then user ratings and such. If somebody says "X preamp sounds so good" then I'll want to check it out. If it's $50/channel...I'll be skeptical, but not rule it out. If I use it and it sucks..well there you go. It's $50/fucking channel, what did I expect?
There have been a lot more questions and answers from me on the subject but quite frankly I'm tired of trying to remember right now. So...anybody that wants to explain in detail what it is that makes things like Great River, API, Vintech, etc. so much better than prosumer grade (e.g. Alesis, Saffire, etc.) - please post it here. This could also prove very useful for others as I'm sure there are plenty of people who have wondered this as well. I can't explain the technical aspect of it, all I have to go by is my experience working with top-shelf units and working with prosumer units.
~006
P.S. I'm stoned right now so forgive any crazy sentences or anything.
From what I gather, he spends quite a bit of time at a site called The Listening Room or something like that that apparently does a ton of shootouts on things from mics to preamps to other audio equipment.
Basically we have discussed, from his questions, why an API 512c would be more desirable than say...an Alesis 26i/o's preamps. He has shown me one shootout where they used an Alesis 26i/o and an Onyx pre from a Mackie unit (maybe 800R? I dunno the details) both recording a dance beat through monitors. Sonically they appear to be pretty much identical. So that begs the question, is the Onyx really better? Why is it better?
He is aware, and I have pointed out as well, that you cannot make an accurate judgement from single mono files and that once you start layering them the better (i.e. more expensive) preamp will shine. Basically, track a whole project with both and you will see why the expensive one is...expensive, lol. He feels, though, that if one mono file shows they are sonically the same, as far as he can tell, then why would it matter if there were 1 or 8? I said the minute difference(s) from one get multiplied every time you add a track of it.
We both agree that, for the most part (read: don't take this too literally), most prosumer grade preamps can be eq'ed to sound like one another. Sure there will be some things that you aren't able to match precisely, but...it's generally all the same if you tweak it a little. But when you start getting into $800+ per channel, that's where you can hear where your money is going. An API preamp (for example) is expensive and desirable for a reason, anybody who has worked with them will tell you they rock. I have worked with them, love them - my dream front-end is API.
I tried explaining that when you have a quality preamp, you spend less time tweaking the source in post to get it where you want. But his argument is, save some money and just spend more time tweaking. If you are doing production full-time, you usually want to spend much less time working. So I can see that from a bedroom standpoint, sure - but not in the pro realm. There is a reason why pros buy the expensive shit. Not because it says API on the outside, but because API makes some killer shit and makes life easier from the get-go. If the preamps in a Behringer really were as good as a Neve unit I'm sure pros would for the Behringer....but it's not true and basically it just so happens that the best shit costs money - go figure.
There's also brand name bias, which to some degree is true I'm sure. But these companies have become synonomous with quality for a reason. I can't remember ever seeing a Neumann advertisement that was actually made by Neumann. So it's not like the bigger companies spend money on advertising. It's word of mouth mainly. The pro audio market is so specialized that advertising wouldn't really make sense, IMO. So it can't be that, right?
Personally I go by experience first if possible, then user ratings and such. If somebody says "X preamp sounds so good" then I'll want to check it out. If it's $50/channel...I'll be skeptical, but not rule it out. If I use it and it sucks..well there you go. It's $50/fucking channel, what did I expect? There have been a lot more questions and answers from me on the subject but quite frankly I'm tired of trying to remember right now. So...anybody that wants to explain in detail what it is that makes things like Great River, API, Vintech, etc. so much better than prosumer grade (e.g. Alesis, Saffire, etc.) - please post it here. This could also prove very useful for others as I'm sure there are plenty of people who have wondered this as well. I can't explain the technical aspect of it, all I have to go by is my experience working with top-shelf units and working with prosumer units.
~006
P.S. I'm stoned right now so forgive any crazy sentences or anything.
