Production/Tracking guitar on first couple Nevermore cds?

[silverwulf]

We used Marshall cabs on POE and DNB I believe. The only time you'll get chorusing is when the guitar's out of tune. Keep an eye on that and you won't get any chorusing.

Neil, thanks a million. There's been speculation over what gear was used on these albums for a long time now. It's great to hear form someone as knowledgable as yourself on the matter. I think you did a steller job on those albums. Here's what we've been able to compile so far regarding what was used on the albums:

Nevermore (Self Titled):

Solid State Head Unit (Exact Model Unknown - Owned by Jeff at the Time)
Unknown 4X12 Cab with Celestion Speakers (Exact Model Unkown)


In Memory EP:

No Information on This Album


Politics of Ecstacy:

Mesa Boogie Mark IV Head Unit
Marshall 1960B 4X12 Cab (w/Celestion G12T-75 Speakers)


Dreaming Neon Black:

Mesa Boogie Triaxis Preamp
Mesa Boogie 2:90 Simul-Class Power Amp
Marshall 1960BV 4X12 Cab (w/Celestion Vintage 30 Speakers)

On all the albums with Neil Kernon, there were 4 tracks of rhythm recorded, and primarily a Shure SM-57 or Sennheiser 421 was used.


DEAD HEART IN A DEAD WORLD:

Custom Built 7 string guitars (with a .80 gauge low B string!) loaded with EMG 707 pickups. The guitars were routed into a Ibanez TS-9 Tube Screamer that was used as a signal boost. The settings on the TS-9 were:

Drive: 9 O'Clock
Tone: 10 O'Clock
Level: 12 O'Clock

This was fed into the amp that was used on all of the rhythm and leads. The amp used was a Mesa Boogie (2 Channel) Dual Rectifier that was straight from the box. The Mesa Recto was routed into a Marshall 1960B 4X12 Cab with the stock G12T-75 Celestions they have. Settings on the Mesa Recto were:

Silicon Diode Setting
Bold Setting
Red (Modern) Channel

Treble: 11.30
Mids: 10 O'Clock
Bass: 11.30
Gain: 12:30
Presence: 12.30
Master: 10 O'Clock

There were 4 tracks of rhythm, with 2 tracks being panned 100% left and right, and the other set being panned 80% left and right. There was no compression, limiting, etc...only a slight touch of EQ used. Two Shure SM-57's were used for recording, one on the center of the cone about an inch away. This was the approximate's denoted by Andy Sneap.


ENEMIES OF REALITY:

7 String guitars loaded with EMG 707 pickups
Ibanez Tube Screamer TS-9 ( Similar to Above)
Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier


We're getting there! Neil, if there's any additions (like guitars/pickups, extra amps, anything for "In Memory," etc.) or corrections you'd like to make on the albums you did, feel free! That's the best we've got so far. Thanks a million!

 

[NK]

The In Memory EP was done at the same time as POE, so the exact same setup was used.

There was a separate preamp/power amp setup that Jeff used for the two sets of demos. I'm not sure what the preamp was but the power amp was an old Peavey. I saw one the other day and it jogged my memory.

Hmm...we tried a REALLY old Marshall 4x12 cabinet for DNB that lives at Sonic Ranch - previously Village Productions. (it wasn't available at the time that we did POE). I do remember the studio owner agonising over whether or not we would be driving it too hard, and its pristine condition was in some jeopardy. As a result I believe we may have ended up using a Mesa Boogie cab with armourplate for gtrs on that album. I do know that we rented the needed Triaxis/90-90 rig from a local chap, and I think he also brought down his cab as well, which I think I felt more comfortable about using as opposed to the delicately vintage Marshall one.



Neil K.

 

[silverwulf]

The In Memory EP was done at the same time as POE, so the exact same setup was used.

There was a separate preamp/power amp setup that Jeff used for the two sets of demos. I'm not sure what the preamp was but the power amp was an old Peavey. I saw one the other day and it jogged my memory.

Hmm...we tried a REALLY old Marshall 4x12 cabinet for DNB that lives at Sonic Ranch - previously Village Productions. (it wasn't available at the time that we did POE). I do remember the studio owner agonising over whether or not we would be driving it too hard, and its pristine condition was in some jeopardy. As a result I believe we may have ended up using a Mesa Boogie cab with armourplate for gtrs on that album. I do know that we rented the needed Triaxis/90-90 rig from a local chap, and I think he also brought down his cab as well, which I think I felt more comfortable about using as opposed to the delicately vintage Marshall one.



Neil K.

You sir, have been a tremendous help of incalculable proportions... Thanks a million!

I've always wonderied about the Triaxi/2:90 rig's. A lot of people have said that the "Deep" voicing on the 2:90 makes the tone tooo flubby...I'm curious as to whether the "Deep" or "Modern" voicings were used on those tracks. I'm sure you don't remember in that much detail...LOL

 

[D_Absolute]

Hmm...we tried a REALLY old Marshall 4x12 cabinet for DNB that lives at Sonic Ranch - previously Village Productions. (it wasn't available at the time that we did POE). I do remember the studio owner agonising over whether or not we would be driving it too hard, and its pristine condition was in some jeopardy.

Neil K.

 

[NK]

Re: Deep vs Modern..I don't remember. We would just scroll through the settings and build a sound from scratch, so it's possible we had the power amp on deep but didn't have a lot of low end dialed in? I love the Triaxis pre's - I've been using them since the Cuatro album by Flotsam and find them capable of almost any sound.

 

[silverwulf]

Re: Deep vs Modern..I don't remember. We would just scroll through the settings and build a sound from scratch, so it's possible we had the power amp on deep but didn't have a lot of low end dialed in? I love the Triaxis pre's - I've been using them since the Cuatro album by Flotsam and find them capable of almost any sound.

Neil, thanks as always for the comments. The Triaxis is definitely one versatile piece of gear. I think it's entirely possible that you guys may have had the "Deep" mode engaged and not used much bass.

Since you've been using a Triaxis for a while, maybe you can help out a little with some questions regarding them? A lot of guys have claimed that the Mesa 2:90 power amp is essential to getting a great sound out of the Triaxis. Would you that the Triaxis is capable of achieving great sounds with another setup that doesn't have the voicing switches, like a different power amp or plugged into a Mesa Dual Rectifier for power?

Also, do you find that the preset EQ curves on the dynamic voicing options give you enough flexibility, or you you think an external EQ is essential to getting a great tone?

Finally, do you think that there is a cab/speakers best suited to the Mesa Triaxis or Mesa Mark IV type amps?

Thanks for all the help, Neil. If you're ever in the DC/VA area, drinks are on me!

 

[Barnyard]

Im partial the the newer Mesa cabs with the Celestion Vintage 30's

Ive used my Dual through Laney ( older celestions ) and Marshall cabs, and I found that the Mesa cab really helped solidify my tone.

 

[Jerich]

Hello Neil...Might the Pre-amp unknown here be a Digitech Valve FX. (chrome with Blue screen,they have a 12ax7 tube in them along with an array of effects) He used it on tour for POE. With a Peavey cs-800 poweramp and a Carvin Cabinet. With a Jackson V at the time. I know Jeff still haves the Valve FX for tooling around. I still have never seen him play life with a POD!!!

 

[NK]

Yes it sounds like you've hit the nail on the head here. Glad someone knows what it was...

Neil K.

 

[NK]

I've been re-reading this thread, and noticed that there might be some slight inaccuracies in it regarding the earlier Nevermore stuff. I'll try to rectify this.

1. As I mentioned in the thread, on DNB I was concerned that the Triaxis/2:90 combo, along with the detuning, might be a bit too much for the vintage cabinet at the studio. I do specifically remember the studio owner listening to the sound and asking me if it might be a bit too loud for it. That particular cab was an old Marshall with 25W Celestion greenbacks in it. I remember listening to it myself and thinking that it might end up being too much for the speakers to handle, but I can't remember if we decided to back off on the volume a bit, or just move to the extended Mesa cab that we had rented along with the Triaxis rig.

2. I don't think that there were four rhythm guitars on the Nevermore debut. In fact, I rather think that there were only two tracks, based on the fact that the recordings were actually only demos and done as fast as possible.

3. As far as there being a "best speaker combo for the Triaxis/2:90", I think it's really a matter of choosing what works best for you in each situation. When I'm getting guitar sounds I tend to try everything (within reason of course) to see which combo gets what I'm looking for. I know that I definitely prefer Celestions, but with all the different models out there some people prefer one type to another. Some like the 70s, others like the 30s, others like the 25s. Plus of course there are great/good/average sounding examples of all of these, depending on how new/old/tired they are. The best thing is to get as many choices or options in as you can and then go through everything using a process of elimination. It takes a little while, but that way you're really building the perfect beast, rather than trying different things at random and keeping your fingers crossed that something will blow you away.

 

[eaeolian]

The only time you'll get chorusing is when the guitar's out of tune. Keep an eye on that and you won't get any chorusing.

One word: Peterson.

 

[eaeolian]

Hello Neil...Might the Pre-amp unknown here be a Digitech Valve FX. (chrome with Blue screen,they have a 12ax7 tube in them along with an array of effects) He used it on tour for POE. With a Peavey cs-800 poweramp and a Carvin Cabinet. With a Jackson V at the time. I know Jeff still haves the Valve FX for tooling around. I still have never seen him play life with a POD!!!

Jeez, Billy, you're EVERYWHERE.

That's what he had on the PoE tour, for sure, because I was amazed that it sounded so good. I've now realized that Jeff just sounds like Jeff, no matter what you hand him.

 

[NK]

I've now realized that Jeff just sounds like Jeff, no matter what you hand him.

I think that's the case with all musicians. The real personality comes from the touch, not the gear. I've seen this for over 30 years now, and no matter how much the instrument/gear manufacturers downplay or fail to mention it (why would they??) it's absolutely true.

Years ago, I knew someone who had noodled around in Colosseum II's rehearsal room with Gary Moore's famous '59 Les Paul - the one previously owned by Peter Green. He was surprised as to how "ordinary" he thought it sounded (through Gary's gear I might add).

Then when Gary picked it up and started playing it, it leapt into life and sounded amazing. Nothing different was used, no pedals added, no tricks, nothing.

As you can imagine, he was quite depressed to discover this.