Progressive music...

[RETIREDTrapped]

...What is it??

I listen to all kinds of Progressive metal; Watchtower, Cynic, Martyr, Death, Opeth... But not one of these bands actually have anything in common... so does someone care for a discussion on what prog-metal actually consists of??

 

[GeniusGonInsane]

good question, i've been wondering the same thing

 

[mehothra]

i guess it's all about a certain complexity of the music (the techniques used, the songwriting, all those solos) and about lyrical depth elsewhere sought in vain. bla.

 

[metalized]

Proegress says it all. New elements in music. Creation of something new. The influenses will exist of course, but the main cause is to take the influenses somewhere further. You don't have to be complex to be progressive.
I mean how complex is "Parallels" from (the GODS) Fates Warning? Yet it is quite progressive!
And how complex is "Operation MindCrime". It is the definition (or one of the definitions) for progressive metal, though.

OK you anyone can clone Dream Theatre and claim that he/she plays progressive metal. Progressive my ass! This is regression!

Typical examples of really progressive bands that have taken their music beyond their influenses and put themselves years ahead of others from their style are:
- DEATH, ATHEIST, CYNIC for death metal
- CORONER, MEKONG DELTA for thrash metal
- CONFESSOR for doom metal
- QUEENSRYCHE, FATES WARNING, HEIR APPARENT for heavy metal
- ARCANE, SECRECY, HELSTAR for power metal
- SOUL CAGES, SIEGES EVEN, PSYCHOTIC WALTZ, DREAM THEATRE for progressive metal.

There are quite a lot groups that I could mention, but I will spend the rest of my day typing and, believe me, folks, I have no intention of doing that!

Well I guess the main question is how metal do these bands remain?
For a very narrow-minded metalhead like myself there is a lot of pain seeing bands like Queensryche turn to grunge ways, or bands like metallica turn to oasis clones.

LET THERE BE METAL.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Cool, thanks for the good responses. You're a dude metalized... thanks!!

I couldn't really work out wether it was complexity; Because Nile is excessivly complex, but i wouldn't class them as progressive...

I guess there is possibly sub-genre's of progressive music as well, like opeth...

 

[metalized]

It is the attitude, man! The thinking of the construction of the songs. It is the creation proccess that counts! If the group thinks, like, lets say Running Wild (which is absolutely combatible with me) and play metal the way they 've been playing it the past 20 years, this is not progressive. I love RW but not for their sense of progress. On the other hand, RW might be a bit boring repeating themselves over the ages for many ppl (not for me, I repeat).

Progressive metal can be divided into sublabels i guess. I normally don't like this division of metal because i am a global metalhead. I like all styles of metal (some so called "Black Metal" bands lack the element of metal, because they lack music in their so called songs-sorry BMheads) - you see i am a fan of music and the best form of music is metal.

There are great traps in progressive metal though. Because it (progressive metal) is becoming fashion there is a lot of shit going arround (ALTURA for example).

 

[metalized]

Originally posted by Trapped
Cool, thanks for the good responses. You're a dude metalized... thanks!!

The dude is you, man, who started this thread!

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Whoah... this thread is fucking old... ha ha, i didn't know what prog was back then

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

haha....i thought it was a knew thread and i was like 'wtf'...haha!

 

[neal]

yeh i figured trapped of all people would know heh. and damn my friend and i were just talkin about this before i came home hah. (we were listening to TSOP) too many genres to think about. all i know is if i like a band or not, and leave the classifing to others. its easier that way heh.
-neal

 

[alanbirdsell]

Finally! New 2003 Heir Apparent! Terry Gorle has Mike Blair (ex-Etheria) on vocals. This demo was conceived, written and recorded in a day. Sounds like the SAVIOR device in the song could be a part of a concept album.

http://www.heirapparent.com/mp3/savior.mp3

 

[Ihreil Junkenstein]

I can't work out why there is no mention of THE DEV in this thread.
I just don't get it.

 

[Unregistered]

Sadly I must still be on an unregistered name to post but it's better than nothing....

FORBIDDEN was very progressive for thrash (Killer debut and follow up).

 

[BumZen]

...What is it??

I listen to all kinds of Progressive metal; Watchtower, Cynic, Martyr, Death, Opeth... But not one of these bands actually have anything in common... so does someone care for a discussion on what prog-metal actually consists of??

I actually consider myself a prog head.
It is always hard to define prog, since it can be prog death metal, and prog rock.
It all differs...

But it has a special sound. And the most important thing is: the lyrics. The lyrics gotta have some point of meaning. Of course there are exceptions, but like 99% have pretty good lyrics.

To mention some of the greatest prog bands today:

Symphony X
Dream Theater
Rush
Evergrey.


And to some of my favs:

Archetype
Chromeshift
Platitude
Beyond Twilight




Mads

 

[lizard]

I bought Opeth - Damnation this past Friday. awesome. turning down the volume and using clean vocals has done nothing to diminish this band's power and grace.

 

[speed]

I think the whole title progressive needs to be done away with. For example- a prog rock band is one that plsys the same old rehashed jazz and classically influences music we have heard from the 70's- Opeth's new album is an example. Prog metal seems to be doing the same thing- needlessly intricate guitar solos, fast keyboards- etc- I dont see much growth in either style. If anything, I would consider any band that is labeled a prog rock- or prog metal band to be quite regressive.

Think about it, Nile, and Deliverance Opeth are much more progressive than say Symphony X, or Dream Theater- Nile and Opeth are playing rather complex extreme music than no band has ever tried or sounded like before. If progressive means growth and new ideas- then because of the repetitive nature of prog rock and metal, the title prog needs to be discarded.

Who does everyone think is a truly progressive metal band- my vote goes to bands like Neurosis, Ulver, Amorphis etc- bands that change and try new influences every single record.

 

[BumZen]

Disagrees...

I don't actually see the progressive thing in Nile. Please explain that further.

How can you say Opeth and Nile is more progressive than Dream Theater?
That is silly imo.

I can agree with you that Opeth is very progressive, and they are acutally counted as a prog band by many.


But take note that prog bands mostly have clean vocals.
Prog just has a special sound... It is so hard to describe. Guess this topic is impossible to find an end on?!?!


Mads

 

[speed]

BumZen- the point i'm trying to make is that progressive means change- new ideas and music etc. I am trying to argue that these classifications like prog metal, in and of themselves need to be thrown out as these bands are not progressive anymore. Dream Theater plays prog rock/metal- maybe they arent the best example in the world- but still their style is one that has been done before by many bands- sure they have their own take on the sound- but the sound i nothing new- nothing we have not heard- or in the case of dream theater- wish we never heard again.

Many prog metal bands- are so described because of the technicality of the songs, , and having a clean vocalists, and playing in the same style as other prog metal bands. I think a band should be called progresive- only when they have tried something fresh and new musically- and are always looking to evolve- widen their musical palette. So, I suppose I would call Nile more progressive as they widened the deathy metal pallete with the introduction of Egytian elements and instruments- yet I agree since they havent changed their stlye in three albums- they arent progressive anymore. Yet, a band like Ulver I would consider progresive in the truest sense of the word, as they have tried so many different styles of music, and done each style so well- they are constantly evolving, instead of staying static and replaying the same over the top out of place solos, with the same fast keyboards, and the same high pitched clean vocalists.

These are just my thoughts- hell i dont think most of the world givesa fuck about progressive music - i know they sure the hell dont care about the bands were talking about.

 

[BumZen]

BumZen- the point i'm trying to make is that progressive means change- new ideas and music etc. I am trying to argue that these classifications like prog metal, in and of themselves need to be thrown out as these bands are not progressive anymore. Dream Theater plays prog rock/metal- maybe they arent the best example in the world- but still their style is one that has been done before by many bands- sure they have their own take on the sound- but the sound i nothing new- nothing we have not heard- or in the case of dream theater- wish we never heard again.

Many prog metal bands- are so described because of the technicality of the songs, , and having a clean vocalists, and playing in the same style as other prog metal bands. I think a band should be called progresive- only when they have tried something fresh and new musically- and are always looking to evolve- widen their musical palette. So, I suppose I would call Nile more progressive as they widened the deathy metal pallete with the introduction of Egytian elements and instruments- yet I agree since they havent changed their stlye in three albums- they arent progressive anymore. Yet, a band like Ulver I would consider progresive in the truest sense of the word, as they have tried so many different styles of music, and done each style so well- they are constantly evolving, instead of staying static and replaying the same over the top out of place solos, with the same fast keyboards, and the same high pitched clean vocalists.

These are just my thoughts- hell i dont think most of the world givesa fuck about progressive music - i know they sure the hell dont care about the bands were talking about.

I can really see your point and I agree, that a band should only be called prog when they bring something new along. But that is not how it works. Prog is mostly classified as intelligent music. I have not heard much Nile, but the little I have heard is not what I would classify as prog, but awesome death metal. And I really do think that Dream Theater came up with something new. Many bands have tried to copy them. Among them are Pagans Mind, but they are also called a prog band. Not because they bring something new to the scene, but because prog have now gotten it's own sound.

MY FINAL definition of prog in this discussion: Music that is metal, but still differs from the other bands in it's genre. Example: Opeth are death metal, but differs from all other death metal bands. Therefor they are a progressive death metal band.
You may disagree, but this is exactly how I see it at this point.

METAL

Mads

 

[speed]

I totally agree with you on your definition. I just dont think the Progressive title will ever be changed though, It will always describe that genre of rock and metal- maybe we should come up with a special progressiv-esque title for those bands that are actually progressive ( as you stated Dream Theater- Ulver etc).

From what I have heard of Dream Theater, they actually do change, and are a bit progressive every album- but personally( and this has nothing to do with the topic) I cant stand them, with those keybaord solos, the long pointless songs full of pointless solos, and that chipmunk singer- ugh