PROMOTER

[saxon747rock]

Id like to say a very big thankyou NOT to the promoter at the london astoria for the up and coming concert this sunday.

Just to be on the safe side id thought id ring the venue to see on the safe side if is was ok for me to film saxon on me vidio cam, spoke to a women first on the phone and although she said they have a law against cameras being in there now i wouldent be able to film it when i said i was a long time fan etc etc she then passed the phone over to the promoter who said a deff NO NO and that i might sell the vidio over the net or use it, to make copies and sell them on, I told him that i had filmed saxon once before when they played in Bradford on the resent tour and i had permission by wouter saying that its ok as long as it is for personnel use only but he said its up to the venue as well, i told the promoter that the vid was for personnel use only just like the bradford one i filmed was and still is i havent even leant it out never mind sell it and never will do cause i wont go against my fav band its just nice to have diff memories of it just like photos but better.

So mister promoter thanks very much NOT what a WAN--r

 

[Redman]

Id like to say a very big thankyou NOT to the promoter at the london astoria for the up and coming concert this sunday.

Just to be on the safe side id thought id ring the venue to see on the safe side if is was ok for me to film saxon on me vidio cam, spoke to a women first on the phone and although she said they have a law against cameras being in there now i wouldent be able to film it when i said i was a long time fan etc etc she then passed the phone over to the promoter who said a deff NO NO and that i might sell the vidio over the net or use it, to make copies and sell them on, I told him that i had filmed saxon once before when they played in Bradford on the resent tour and i had permission by wouter saying that its ok as long as it is for personnel use only but he said its up to the venue as well, i told the promoter that the vid was for personnel use only just like the bradford one i filmed was and still is i havent even leant it out never mind sell it and never will do cause i wont go against my fav band its just nice to have diff memories of it just like photos but better.

So mister promoter thanks very much NOT what a WAN--r

Bourgeois uke:

I think it's damn good idea to film these concerts. I mean, most of us would give our hand to see old videos from early Saxon career... I've also heard that you can't take camera into some concerts, wtf???! I don't understand that, do they want to harm the band or what? Are they afraid that people might even like Saxon if they knew who they are?

 

[*Rockchick*]

I have some movies form the concerts I made myself... but I don't know how to get them on this site????

 

[TheAssMaster]

Come on, give the guy a break! You asked if you could record there, he said no, why not just leave it at that? Yes, it's great to see/hear recordings of gigs we go to, and that's why bands do live LPs/Videos! Would you be so keen to buy the Live DVD of a gig from the other side of the country, if you already had your own recording of the gig you attended? Perhaps, but then again, plenty of people wouldn't. Fuck it, some people might even give upcoming gigs a miss if they've already seen the show, we all look forward to seeing new stage-sets, guessing set-lists, seeing who looks their age!
Your intentions might be totally based on the video only being watched by you, but would you let any of the other rabid Saxon fans on here have a look at it? Oh, go on, pleeeeease! Just one? You let them have a copy, and they let their best mate have one........etc.

Also, from the venue's point of view, let's say they do let anyone film "just for personal use". These days we all have easy access to hi-tech kit that will produce quality results. How long do you think it would be before some bloke decides that because he's got a sooper-dooper top-of-the-range camera, he needs his mate to bring in his hi-tec sound recording kit? And a grip man. And a second cam etc etc. Before you know where you are, you have a full-on film crew in there. And then they are so proud of their product, they decide to stick it on Youtube, or similar. Lovely, there goes the band's live dvd down the pan. There are music industry lawyers out there who have nothing better to do than crush people who endanger company profits. No venue is going to place themselves in a position where they could be fucked hard by a record company pissed off about their upcoming live release being scuppered.
And what about the photos taken with high quality digital cams - not like the bad old days when your shitty snapshots would be dismal, these days even your phone takes superb quality pics. What about the pros who take pics for a living?

What about the venue's H&S policy, what happens if you have your eye to the viewfinder and you fall over and twat your teeth out? Someone would be in deeeeeep shit for that. And you would possibly be advising your solicitor to fuck them for every penny.

If you are so desperate to film the show, write to the band's management and if they are genuinely OK about it, get written permission and get on the crew list. If not, enjoy the show and stop fucking whinging about having to abide by the rules like the rest of us.

 

[saxon747rock]

As a saxon fan now for 25 years and my 22nd saxon concert coming up plus i buy all there stuff cds dvds etc etc etc even if saxon filmed at bradford where i filmed on me cam corder and released it on dvd id still buy it why better sound better pic quility and most of all i collect as much as i can afford on saxon new and second hand

And No not lending the vid out you might copy it or sell it

I see it this way at the end of the day it should be up to the band they write the material perform it etc etc, and as it stands at the moment saxon dont mind as long as it is for personnel use only which it is, if saxon turned round and said sorry No recording then id respect that but not some promoter with cash signs going up his arse.

 

[Redman]

As a saxon fan now for 25 years and my 22nd saxon concert coming up plus i buy all there stuff cds dvds etc etc etc even if saxon filmed at bradford where i filmed on me cam corder and released it on dvd id still buy it why better sound better pic quility and most of all i collect as much as i can afford on saxon new and second hand

And No not lending the vid out you might copy it or sell it

I see it this way at the end of the day it should be up to the band they write the material perform it etc etc, and as it stands at the moment saxon dont mind as long as it is for personnel use only which it is, if saxon turned round and said sorry No recording then id respect that but not some promoter with cash signs going up his arse.

Exactly! True Saxon fan would likes to see as much live material as possible! I'm sure Saxon wouldn't mind about recording or anything, its those promoters and like who fear that they could loose money. There's a damn bootleg for almost every concert of Judas Priest and still people want to buy all their live records. And its not necessarily a bad thing that people would then borrow these recordings of their to other people. Why? Saxon would just get more fans who'd come to their concert and buy their albums. If it wasn't for internet, I wouldn't even listen to the music! And even though I have first downloaded nearly every Priest album and Saxon album, I still bought them from the shop too.

I say it again: bourgeoise! (hah, just learned that word so I have to practice it's use )

 

[Dogs_Of_War]

I understand what you're saying.

But theres already tons of SAXON bootlegs out there and I have quite a few myself. Does that mean I won't buy the upcoming DVD?? What a load of crap, of course I'll bloody buy it, bootlegs are no-where near as good quality as pro-released shows/DVD's.

And I cant' f'kin wait for the new live album and DVD.

Anyways I don't see any harm in it, unless these boots are sold for a profit, cos that would be ripping off the band.

Then again, its not up to me to decide, but I understand what you're saying, its just an open debate as theres 2 sides to it all.



Simon.

 

[TheAssMaster]

I have a stack of Saxon bootlegs myself, and will still buy any live release, because, just like you, I am a TOTAL Saxon fan, if it is them, I want it! However, I also know what wonders can be done in a studio "tidying up" live recordings for general release. Ever heard an official release of a gig you have a bootleg of? Remember Priest's "Unleashed in the Studio, erm East"? Hmmmmm, me too.

So, sorry, I dispute the claim that bootlegs catch new fans, they are generally only of any interest to current fans of the band. In fact, I'd go so far as to say hearing a band on a raw bootleg might put people off them, because you can't recreate the atmosphere of a blinding gig, and fans know what they are listening to, how it is supposed to sound. Everyone else generally hears an indistinct row!

My second point is that it is far from clear whether the band themselves would be happy with all and sundry being able to record their gigs, we are only told "Wouter saying it was OK for personal use". So was this an official written OK, or was it a sideways "OK mate, don't make a fuss about it, I know you are harmless, just do it discretely"-type of verbal response? (In which case you have dropped him right in the shit by telling the world about it!)

Bands can be ferociously protective of their property ie. their music. They work hard, sweat and toil, and sometimes present their life's masterpiece to a public who might just decide they are bored with them now and have moved on to another flavour of the month. Nothing they do is guaranteed to be a success, and if it is a flop, it is back to working at Tesco. With such little control over their destiny, what little power they have is jealously protected, and rightly so. Believe me, in every band there is one member who is totally on the ball, and totally business focussed, even if they appear to be easy-going devil-may-care nice-guys (or rock-n-roll bad boys). They have to be, because if not, they will get fucked by bad management, or have record companies fuck up releases/promotion. Sound familiar? Only bands with a sharp business head will survive as long as Saxon have with their history of getting the shitty end of record company sticks etc, regardless of their fine product!
So bearing that in mind, don't be so sure that any band are totally happy with all and sundry trampling over their PRS/PPL/Publishing RIGHTS (read it again, it says "RIGHTS"), no matter what they appear to be saying. Whilst not wanting to come across as bread-head corporate arseholes, they still have bills to pay, and they won't want their financial security fucked with. Would you work for someone without knowing exactly who was paying you, going to get your money at the end of the month and finding that no-one knows anything about your wages, it isn't their dept? I think not! That's the equivilent of being lax with copyright etc, and there will always be someone out there who will be able to punish you for being slack, and make a profit from it ie. steal your money.
Remember not so long ago, when someone spent a pile of cash (rightfully) defending their bandname from usurpers, when those usurpers would have never fooled any real fan, they simply weren't the genuine article? Someone realised that they had to defend their intellectual property, no matter how ridiculous the challenge, or it would have ended up with them getting arse-fucked somewhere down the line.
Incidentally, whilst we are on the subject of ex-band members, they also may not be happy with anyone making recordings of material they still share the rights to. They may actually be working at Tesco whilst their former bandmates carry on, and they may be desperate to see a royalty cheque. If they see the rights to their work being given away, they may not be very pleased, no "ah, it's only one recording for one fan", it's money from their pocket, and they may instruct their lawyers to recover that money, and some. And we all know how even-handed and sensible judges can be with their compo awards, don't we?

Of course, some bands have said it was OK to record their gigs, didn't Metallica actively encourage taping of their shows a few years back, and the swapping of those bootlegs, even setting aside floor space for people who wanted to record? Oh yes, they are so easy going and really good to their loyal fans, this illustrates that point, right? Hmmm, perhaps, but then how many official live Metallica LPs have they released? One, AFAIK, and that was that orchestral pile of shit. And look how cool and easy going Lars and co turned out to be when they found out about their loyal fans sharing tracks on Napster.........

No, I'm sorry, I stand by my original comments, whilst it is great to get a bootleg of a gig I attend, there are seriously valid reasons it is against the rules. Good on ya if you get a recording, but don't whine about officals preventing you from doing it. Personally, I'd have tried to smuggle the camera in and if I was caught, took it on the chin. If it was just a common domestic cam rather than a broadcast quality Betacam, you might have been able to blag any security men. Worth a go, if it meant that much to you.

My final point is that for all that has been said, this thread wasn't about bootleg recordings of the gig, it was about the filming of a show. Perhaps there are deeper copyright/permissions etc concerned with filming rather than simply making a sound recording? The venue told you there was "a law against cameras being in there", now this may have been some obscure regulation, London authorities are reknowned for stupid conditions attached to public entertainment licences, and for enforcing them. Either way, I say again, you can't hold it against the venue management for protecting the band's rights, in the same way he would be right for clearing off those bootleg t-shirt sellers outside, after all, surely £5-10 for a shirt is better than £20 for an official one? Nah, money taken from Biff and Co's pockets, and they are welcome to it for the pleasure they give me (oo-err!!!!)

Apologies for the length (missus), but it had to be said, and someone has to play the Devil's Advocate, right?

 

[RayNJ]

there are laws against bootlegging music. More so now than ever before. Personal use or not, it`s against the law.