SteelFireRecs
Member
The song writing is not the same, its slowed down and not the fast paced energy thrash they created before the record deal.
Question: why so many lackluster releases?
- Thread starter Diabolik
- Start date
The song writing is not the same, its slowed down and not the fast paced energy thrash they created before the record deal.
modernwizardry
I want stout!
There are always going to be bands that are super passionate about being in a band and passionate about metal but cannot write songs. If you buy every underground metal album that comes out it probably starts blurring together and gets boring to you.
I think it even comes with playing shows. I have seen so many younger bands just rushing into playing thier first shows without really fine tuning thier skills and it ends up making them look really bad and turns me off from wanting to see them again.
Justin G
Member
Jasonic
Doom On!
I will try to summarize this the best I can.
@ Bob - All I can say to your summarized point above is your issue is nothing new to the modern era. There have always been bands dating back to the 70s who recorded or played shows before they were ready to do so. I think in the traditional metal scene there is this mysticism that anything in the 80s is godly, and today there are a lot of copy cats. Some do it right and well. Some do it terribly. My initial point though is that many bands from the 80s sounded good right out of the starting gate because that was during the era when many start up labels were paying for the bands recording.
@ dcowboys - See my last sentence to Bob. This is why I brought up Diamond Plate, as its a recent example of the sound changing once you are playing with $$$$ from a record label as opposed to the sound quality of a self release.
Yes, I know song writing is a BIG part of it. I am talking too about the production, because it DOES matter.
If it didn't, why would any band even bother going in to remaster albums in bigger studios on bigger boards?
Sorry if I got off tangent a bit. I did get Bob's original point in terms of general song writing.
@ Bob - All I can say to your summarized point above is your issue is nothing new to the modern era. There have always been bands dating back to the 70s who recorded or played shows before they were ready to do so. I think in the traditional metal scene there is this mysticism that anything in the 80s is godly, and today there are a lot of copy cats. Some do it right and well. Some do it terribly. My initial point though is that many bands from the 80s sounded good right out of the starting gate because that was during the era when many start up labels were paying for the bands recording.
@ dcowboys - See my last sentence to Bob. This is why I brought up Diamond Plate, as its a recent example of the sound changing once you are playing with $$$$ from a record label as opposed to the sound quality of a self release.
Yes, I know song writing is a BIG part of it. I am talking too about the production, because it DOES matter.
If it didn't, why would any band even bother going in to remaster albums in bigger studios on bigger boards?
Sorry if I got off tangent a bit. I did get Bob's original point in terms of general song writing.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Guess that's a matter of opinion. Sounds like the same band to me, but to be honest, I think they are good, but I really couldn't care less. I just brought them up as an example of my point in how you can hear how the production quality can impact a bands sound, and was not directly related to Bob's initial point about the song writing quality. I will have to take your word for it, as you are obviously a much bigger fan of them than I.
nomisofsiman
Member
Agreed. Also, for those who disagree, do you think there's really more bad albums now than in the 80s? I think part of why it may feel like that is it's much easier for bands to get their name out there.
nomisofsiman
Member
I will disagree with this. I still think there are many bands that have been writing solid albums today. Maybe what you're referring to is the fact that a lot of it more or less sounds samey, which has more to do with everything already being done before than anything else.
Jasonic
Doom On!
It doesn't happen often but I agree 100% with both of Simon's posts above.
Furthermore, I find it ironic that Bob brings this up in the context of what he primarily listens to, which is traditional metal.
The genre on its own does not lend itself to much originality.
You obviously never felt this way when you were a viking metal fan because it was something new and fresh.
Furthermore, I find it ironic that Bob brings this up in the context of what he primarily listens to, which is traditional metal.
The genre on its own does not lend itself to much originality.
You obviously never felt this way when you were a viking metal fan because it was something new and fresh.
both decades have good and bad releases. I think that this current decade since it is now easier to get stuff out there more bands rush it. While back years ago it wasnt easy for a band to self release and distribute it. Now with digital downloads I can literally sit home and record something today and mix it online with software and then release it the next day. While years ago it took time and more money. While this benefits bands now it also I feel declines the song writing because less time is spent on song writing and more time on trying to get your release out before it should.
dcowboys311
Member
This is a double-edged sword though. You can easily sit home and record, mix, and master something, and throw up the samples/purchase links, but if it sucks, nobody's going to buy it.
You see this happen all the time, and then they complain about how it's 'illegal downloading' and 'entitlement' that they are going broke....no, jackass, you just suck and nobody wants to buy your music.
In a niche genre like traditional/death/black/power/whatever metal, quality will always prevail, no matter how expensive/cheap or hard/easy it is to get your product out there.
very true. If it sucks it is not going to sell. Look at peoples distro and trade list...80% of the stuff is the same stuff.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Yeah, this is indeed true, but its not a bad thing from the band's perspective.
It's expensive to record in a studio.
In the digital age, its honestly not like you get a better sounding demo from a studio unless you hire a producer on top of the studio's sound engineer.
So, why wouldn't you take advantage of modern technology and do it on your own?
Quite frank if you are not ready you are not ready.
There are plenty piss poor releases that labels put out as well.
If your concern is that because of this the market is flooded with self released material that is sub par, then dont buy it.
There is plenty of options for sampling bands to completely eliminate making blind purchases.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Ok, and your point is what?
That there are more bands now than 20 years ago?
That would be true with any genre.
I think modern technology has enabled many musicians to start bands as more of a hobby than as a way to make a living. Less are probably concerned with "making it big" since they are one of thousands upon thousands of bands gunning for a deal. So, to get around it, they self release CDRs or find labels like Mendyk's who are willing to release a niche product like a *gasp* tape to get the name out.
The amount of suckage or even the concept of suckage is certainly not unique to the modern era.
exactly but the flood of stuff may bury a great release. This is why even having good album art that is eye catching is important as well. There are a lot of aspects to look at. My general question to all was basically about song writing while it being an art form to some is seeming to be a quick process for lots just to get something out there to say "we have an EP". I think I would rather take the time to write 5 killer songs that have staying power than to rush out 5 songs just to get something released that later you will never play live or be embarrassed it is out there. Plus as you always say....first impressions are important.
For example....we see lots of young locals acts. Look at some who come on stage and are sloppy and very lackluster because they are not ready to perform live. You wouldnt ever waste time with them again. If they were playing at a show you were going to again you would not watch them because you know it was something bad the first time.
I think this is also an issue when we see bands racing to play shows when they are not ready and the show is usually hurt with a bunch of lackluster acts opening for a larger act. In the end it isnt good for anyone. Fans get a bad interpitation of the band and the band misses the chance to really show what they may have to show one day.
kind of a bad cycle.
For example....we see lots of young locals acts. Look at some who come on stage and are sloppy and very lackluster because they are not ready to perform live. You wouldnt ever waste time with them again. If they were playing at a show you were going to again you would not watch them because you know it was something bad the first time.
I think this is also an issue when we see bands racing to play shows when they are not ready and the show is usually hurt with a bunch of lackluster acts opening for a larger act. In the end it isnt good for anyone. Fans get a bad interpitation of the band and the band misses the chance to really show what they may have to show one day.
kind of a bad cycle.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Agreed,
I think though it really depends on the goal of the band as well.
First impressions are indeed important.
If a band truly isn't good, they won't get booked again and no one is going to see them.
Every band has to start somewhere.
I will speak for myself. I am at a time in my life where I have ZERO desire to sit in someone's basement for a year straight 2 nights a week writing songs.
I am not looking for a record label so I could go on tour 10 months out of the year.
That's why lots of labels are signging bands with an average age of 21 that makes older guys cringe.
Well, most bands with members in their 30s or above are not starting bands with the intent of making it big.
They just want to have music as a hobby. If things get bigger, than great.
I don't agree at all about how some band you don't care about anyhow releasing a bad EP would overshadow a good release.
I do agree though that bands not "show ready" do sometimes kill an otherwise solid bill.
As been said before, this is just as much the fault of promoters who put any band that asks on a bill.
But as you said, if the band blows, they will only hurt themselves in the end.
I think though it really depends on the goal of the band as well.
First impressions are indeed important.
If a band truly isn't good, they won't get booked again and no one is going to see them.
Every band has to start somewhere.
I will speak for myself. I am at a time in my life where I have ZERO desire to sit in someone's basement for a year straight 2 nights a week writing songs.
I am not looking for a record label so I could go on tour 10 months out of the year.
That's why lots of labels are signging bands with an average age of 21 that makes older guys cringe.
Well, most bands with members in their 30s or above are not starting bands with the intent of making it big.
They just want to have music as a hobby. If things get bigger, than great.
I don't agree at all about how some band you don't care about anyhow releasing a bad EP would overshadow a good release.
I do agree though that bands not "show ready" do sometimes kill an otherwise solid bill.
As been said before, this is just as much the fault of promoters who put any band that asks on a bill.
But as you said, if the band blows, they will only hurt themselves in the end.
not true....look how many bands locally who are not ready play more and more shows. Not the case.
dcowboys311
Member
Well, one of the HUGE plus-sides to the internet, and message boards in particular, is that despite the abundance of shit, there will always be people with good taste whose judgement I can trust. For example, the NWN board is flooded with generic Blasphemy-fago-tation bands, but the good (or at least what I like) is easy to pick out because of discussions like these.
Sadly, I don't think being 'bad' will ever stop anyone from getting booked. As long as you can bring friends and sell tickets, you will keep getting booked. I can only think of one band locally who was truly so bad that even their friends didn't come out to support them....but given the interactions I had with the band, I wouldn't be surprised if they just didn't have friends.
Sadly, I don't think being 'bad' will ever stop anyone from getting booked. As long as you can bring friends and sell tickets, you will keep getting booked. I can only think of one band locally who was truly so bad that even their friends didn't come out to support them....but given the interactions I had with the band, I wouldn't be surprised if they just didn't have friends.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Well, but playing more shows should help them improve as a band.
If not, they will fade away.
It could simply also be that you just don't like them.
For example, you mentioned your hatred for Smash Potater here many times.
Bottom line is they keep getting bigger and better shows.
They were invited to play WOM.
So bottom line is, regardless of what Armchair Bob thinks, they are doing well.
If you dont like them, dont see them.
I mean, there are plenty of local bands that you may like that someone else will think isn't that speacial.
The last thing I will say on this is that as much as technology has enabled bands to record and get to the stage quicker, I don't think bands who just suck is nothing new.
Element_man
Lord of the Realm
I don't think you can pin this on any one thing, and the factors will change slightly from person to person depending on perspective.
For me, the "heard it all before" factor is a big one, especially for people that were active in music in the 80's and 90's. I think there are many great bands and great albums coming out. I personally will buy albums and merchandise from a modern band currently working on music before I will buy a reissue. Argus, Borrowed Time, Atlantean Kodex, Sinister Realm, Air Raid, Razorwyre etc etc... These bands are worth your money.
That being said, there is a certain magic to 80's heavy metal that we simply don't have anymore. Maybe it's a production thing. Maybe it's the fact that bands used to be able to gig 6 nights a week and make some money. I think some of it is the airy, cavernous production. Some of it could be the mystery factor. When I hear a wicked 80's demo on youtube and all I have to go by is the painted cover art and a grainy B&W photo of the members it gives me chills in an arcane discovery sort of way, you know? I think another thing is the fact that the 80's had more amazing rock SINGERS than you hear these days. Good singing is making a comeback, but most of the guys on these modern records sound limp compared to the some of those obscure USPM and NWOBHM guys. I don't think it's because there are less good singers, I think it's because all the good singers are into other kinds of music.
I do think there's an element of what Bob is saying, in regards to rushing with material. It's so easy to record shit and get it out for the world to hear, and people are spread so thin in their interests, work and lives that rehearsing and writing and fine-tuning is almost impossible. I fucking hate it. I'd kill to be in a band with people that are willing to jam 3x a week or more, have focused writing sessions, and able to hang out and be natural and creative with each other like brothers. What I wouldn't give for Gatekeeper to become that band for me. I'm lucky if my mates can get in one rehearsal a week when we're preparing for a show.
For me, the "heard it all before" factor is a big one, especially for people that were active in music in the 80's and 90's. I think there are many great bands and great albums coming out. I personally will buy albums and merchandise from a modern band currently working on music before I will buy a reissue. Argus, Borrowed Time, Atlantean Kodex, Sinister Realm, Air Raid, Razorwyre etc etc... These bands are worth your money.
That being said, there is a certain magic to 80's heavy metal that we simply don't have anymore. Maybe it's a production thing. Maybe it's the fact that bands used to be able to gig 6 nights a week and make some money. I think some of it is the airy, cavernous production. Some of it could be the mystery factor. When I hear a wicked 80's demo on youtube and all I have to go by is the painted cover art and a grainy B&W photo of the members it gives me chills in an arcane discovery sort of way, you know? I think another thing is the fact that the 80's had more amazing rock SINGERS than you hear these days. Good singing is making a comeback, but most of the guys on these modern records sound limp compared to the some of those obscure USPM and NWOBHM guys. I don't think it's because there are less good singers, I think it's because all the good singers are into other kinds of music.
I do think there's an element of what Bob is saying, in regards to rushing with material. It's so easy to record shit and get it out for the world to hear, and people are spread so thin in their interests, work and lives that rehearsing and writing and fine-tuning is almost impossible. I fucking hate it. I'd kill to be in a band with people that are willing to jam 3x a week or more, have focused writing sessions, and able to hang out and be natural and creative with each other like brothers. What I wouldn't give for Gatekeeper to become that band for me. I'm lucky if my mates can get in one rehearsal a week when we're preparing for a show.
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